The Armstrong Lie ( Official Trailer )



mpre53

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Originally Posted by limerickman

Thanks for this very interesting and informative analysis, Mpre.

Are you a professional in this field (Psychology)?
No, I'm not a theapist, but my profession requires at least a basic understanding of various personality disorders. Many people refer to Lance as a "sociopath" but IMO he doesn't fit that profile, as much as he fits the classic narcissist one. I'd like to think that he retains some semblance of a conscience.
 

slovakguy

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Originally Posted by mpre53

No, I'm not a theapist, but my profession requires at least a basic understanding of various personality disorders. Many people refer to Lance as a "sociopath" but IMO he doesn't fit that profile, as much as he fits the classic narcissist one. I'd like to think that he retains some semblance of a conscience.
good point with that last observation. question of the amount, i suppose. in that, where he draws the line between right and wrong in his world view. interesting thought now that he brings his son's experiences to the mix--would like to see his reaction/advice/coaching if his son loses some athletic event to a cheat.
 

slovakguy

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http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2013/nov/11/lance-armstrong-inquiry-loss-doping-uci

quite the pr blitz armstrong has been on, coupled with his lawyers recently revisiting an old charge against novitzky and tygart singling armstrong out for punishment. is the endgame to soften the revulsion the public feel for him in advance of the legal cases coming up? preparing the battle ground before bruyneel's hearing and what it reveals?

"Lance Armstrong has questioned the validity of cycling's inquiry into doping and complained that he had 'experienced massive personal loss … while others have truly capitalised on this story'." a most telling quotation from him, in that i'm not sure any of his critics have "capitalised" on this issue as mightily as he did in cheating his way to the top.
 

alienator

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slovakguy said:
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2013/nov/11/lance-armstrong-inquiry-loss-doping-uci quite the pr blitz armstrong has been on, coupled with his lawyers recently revisiting an old charge against novitzky and tygart singling armstrong out for punishment.  is the endgame to soften the revulsion the public feel for him in advance of the legal cases coming up?  preparing the battle ground before bruyneel's hearing and what it reveals? "Lance Armstrong [COLOR=333333] has questioned the validity of [/COLOR]cycling [COLOR=333333]'s inquiry into doping and complained that he had 'experienced massive personal loss … while others have truly capitalised on this story'.[/COLOR]"  a most telling quotation from him, in that i'm not sure any of his critics have "capitalised" on this issue as mightily as he did in cheating his way to the top.
Isn't interesting how Armstrong has said that he'll participate in a T&R commission investigation if he is treated "fairly". He's also hinted that reducing his ban is a prerequisite for his participation. I think that sound is the sound of goalposts being moved farther away. As for his "massive personal loss", I think it pales compared to what he did to other people and the loss those people felt. If nothing else, his statements only reinforce that he is in no way sorry for anything.
 

mpre53

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He had a chance to co-operate last year. I have if from a very good source that USADA offered him the same deal as Hincapie, Levi, et al. 6 months suspension, and loss of results back to 2005. Meaning he would have kept 5 yellow jerseys and his Olympic bronze. So he tells them to stuff it, and within 6 months he's on Oprah admitting everything.
 

alienator

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mpre53 said:
He had a chance to co-operate last year. I have if from a very good source that USADA offered him the same deal as Hincapie, Levi, et al. 6 months suspension, and loss of results back to 2005. Meaning he would have kept 5 yellow jerseys and his Olympic bronze. So he tells them to stuff it, and within 6 months he's on Oprah admitting everything.
That wouldn't surprise me.
 

swampy1970

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Originally Posted by mpre53
He had a chance to co-operate last year. I have if from a very good source that USADA offered him the same deal as Hincapie, Levi, et al. 6 months suspension, and loss of results back to 2005. Meaning he would have kept 5 yellow jerseys and his Olympic bronze. So he tells them to stuff it, and within 6 months he's on Oprah admitting everything.
Since that's a very interesting tidbit, care to name the "good sources"?
 

swampy1970

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Originally Posted by limerickman

Yeah, it's the same old shite from Armstrong.
He projects his own failings on to other people. "I was cheating but he was cheating too.......................so my cheating is not bad"

It's a very infantile attempt on Armstrong's part to justify all that he did and all that he didn't do throughout his doping career. The conclusion is that it is clear that despite his platitudes he still refuses to sincerely acknowledge the cheating/fraud that he has committed.
I can't but help thinking that Armstrong reminds me more and more of OJ Simpson in many regards.

The concentration upon the affects of his behaviour rather than addressing the causes of his behaviour are evident throughout this interview.

Like Simpson, I don't believe that Armstrong has the willingness or capacity to be reformed.
I can't help think that Lance is very similar to Stephen Roche. Dope and then threaten people like Kimmage when he says he'll spill the beans.

Then again, you like Stephen, so you'll never say that... ;)
 

mpre53

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swampy1970 said:
Since that's a very interesting tidbit, care to name the "good sources"?
Posts on another forum under a pseudonym. He has called the outcome of almost every doping issue over the last four years or so, before anything came out. Appears to be plugged in. People with his track record on this stuff can be considered good sources. If I had to guess, it's someone very close to LeMond. He uses the name of the US Olympic team doctor for the 84 Games. But he's not that guy. Also not a doctor. The 84 Olympics squad were openly transfusing. It wasn't illegal then. Not until 1986.
 
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slovakguy

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http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/lance-armstrong-claims-verbruggen-aided-in-doping-cover-up going to pose a problem getting that cat back in the bag. armstrong names hein as the instigator in the tue affair. granted this is a world away from sworn testimony, but it should make the hog's upcoming hearing more interesting.
 

limerickman

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In my humble opinion, it was always going to come to this where you have a fall out among thieves.

One thief accusing the other thief.

Verbruggen is a kept man given his role at the IOC.

Armstrong could well be telling the truth about Verbruggen but like Aesop taught us thousands of years ago, there will come a point where
no one will believe the kid when he claims that there is a wolf.

Interesting times. Cookson will be the winner out of all of this because he will be seen to be the man trying to do the correct thing.
 

slovakguy

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can't agree completely with what you write, lim. with armstrong, the acid test will always be if he is willing to make these accusations sworn testimony. i'm banking that the hog's upcoming hearing will be the proof of armstrong's pudding. i'm also willing to wager that armstrong ducks testifying there, hoping again and again that a truth and reconciliation committee reduces his lifetime ban to his hoped for time served ban, allowing him to enter competitions again. that is the only angle i can see him playing with this latest media blitz. whatever he states openly now only makes landis' case stronger and him financially poorer. he has to be banking on new wealth to be found in triath's.

side note--loved that bit of whingeing where armstrong feels hv and pm have thrown him under the bus, even after they did about all they could do short of getting gerry ford to grant armstrong a presidential pardon.

quick question, lim. why the daily mail? i understand the times would not be his choice, given the recent settlement and staff in times past. i figure the no to the guardian because fotheringham might not be as accommodating as the cycling news reporter. is the daily mail cycling staff more of a puff piece group? something of a returned favour from tdf's of the past?
 

limerickman

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Originally Posted by slovakguy
can't agree completely with what you write, lim. with armstrong, the acid test will always be if he is willing to make these accusations sworn testimony. i'm banking that the hog's upcoming hearing will be the proof of armstrong's pudding. i'm also willing to wager that armstrong ducks testifying there, hoping again and again that a truth and reconciliation committee reduces his lifetime ban to his hoped for time served ban, allowing him to enter competitions again. that is the only angle i can see him playing with this latest media blitz. whatever he states openly now only makes landis' case stronger and him financially poorer. he has to be banking on new wealth to be found in triath's.

side note--loved that bit of whingeing where armstrong feels hv and pm have thrown him under the bus, even after they did about all they could do short of getting gerry ford to grant armstrong a presidential pardon.

quick question, lim. why the daily mail? i understand the times would not be his choice, given the recent settlement and staff in times past. i figure the no to the guardian because fotheringham might not be as accommodating as the cycling news reporter. is the daily mail cycling staff more of a puff piece group? something of a returned favour from tdf's of the past?
The DM, despite it's reputation, has a good circulation level.
(DM has a reputation for being a Little Englander newspaper - I can think of certain posters here who probably read it).

DM's not known for it's indepth sports analysis but it is known for "celebrity"/media interviews. It isn't known for it's coverage of sport.
 

slovakguy

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http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/cycling/2013/11/20/lance-armstrong-lawsuit-acceptance-insurance/3653147/

settled with the times without testifying. settled with acceptance insurance without testifying. looks like armstrong has a terrific fear of giving sworn testimony or the penalty for lying under oath.
 

alienator

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limerickman

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Originally Posted by slovakguy
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/cycling/2013/11/20/lance-armstrong-lawsuit-acceptance-insurance/3653147/

settled with the times without testifying. settled with acceptance insurance without testifying. looks like armstrong has a terrific fear of giving sworn testimony or the penalty for lying under oath.
Thanks for this update.

The outocme to the SCA case should be interesting.
 

slovakguy

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Originally Posted by limerickman
Thanks for this update.

The outocme to the SCA case should be interesting.
most definitely. i wonder if bob hamman is instructing his lawyers not to accept any settlement offer just to have the opportunity of putting armstrong on the witness stand.

something that came from "wheelmen" concerns the amount sca is seeking through the courts being based on how much armstrong had in assets excluding his house. if i were their lawyers, i'd be hitting the books all night to see if armstrong's recent sale of the mansion puts those funds on the table.
 

limerickman

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Originally Posted by slovakguy
most definitely. i wonder if bob hamman is instructing his lawyers not to accept any settlement offer just to have the opportunity of putting armstrong on the witness stand.

something that came from "wheelmen" concerns the amount sca is seeking through the courts being based on how much armstrong had in assets excluding his house. if i were their lawyers, i'd be hitting the books all night to see if armstrong's recent sale of the mansion puts those funds on the table.
From what I have read about Hamman : he doesn't seem to be the type of person who will compromise especially after being deliberately lied to earlier.
 

Christinase

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He was a famous cyclist but after he admitted that he was not performing with his natural power. So whole nation feel ashamed on him.
 

slovakguy

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Originally Posted by limerickman
From what I have read about Hamman : he doesn't seem to be the type of person who will compromise especially after being deliberately lied to earlier.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/judge-rules-against-armstrong-in-sca-promotions-lawsuit

looks as though the courts have cleared the way for sca to take their case forward.
 
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