The Astana sacrifice move ... Grandmaster chess!



plectrum

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Jul 26, 2007
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What is the biggest race in cycling? .... Le Tour.

If Astana start do they dominate the race from start to finish winning Yellow, Team, possibly Polka Dot and is Contador still young enough for white?

In the war between ASO & UCI where success relies on support from the teams, does sacrificing Bruyneel's men give atleast 5 teams a chance of yellow success in Le Tour, which in turn pleases 5 of the major sponsors.

Caisse - Piti
CSC - Sastre / Schleck
High Rd - Rogers
Lotto - Evans
Rabobank - Menchov

Also correct me if I am wrong but is Bruyneel perhaps also right in his analysis that Astana are 'too good' because it is highly possible that the podium would read:

1. Kloden
2. Leipheimer
3. Contador

Or a variation on this theme.

So by murdering Astana have ASO assured the 5 big allies to unite the other world teams behind them whilst they war with UCI ......>

Check & Mate .....mate!
 
plectrum said:
If Astana start do they dominate the race from start to finish winning Yellow, Team, possibly Polka Dot and is Contador still young enough for white?
I don't think Contador would be eligible for the White jersey this year as he turns 26 in 2008. His birthday is in December but typically they make the birthdate a cutoff date of January 1.
 
hawkeye87 said:
I don't think Contador would be eligible for the White jersey this year as he turns 26 in 2008. His birthday is in December but typically they make the birthdate a cutoff date of January 1.
Thanks for that Hawkeye87 but that kinda was the minor part to my grand point!!!!!
 
I think you got the order wrong. If Astana can race I think Contador will again take the day. I doubt Kloden will be a top 5 finisher. Leipheimer?? I have no clue.
 
FS, no I think i have got it exactly right. Kloden would have moved if he wasn't given assurances that he would be given fair billing in Le Tour. Certainly Levi would argue that Contador is young and has won it and so it is fair that he would be considered also and obviously Contador would say ...'heh I'm the champ!' In an open race where the final decision is taken midway through the as to who ends up as backed for the win I feel Kloden would hold the trump card by being able to beat Levi in Mountains, and Contador in TT (where he could also beat Levi). When looking at this and based on last years epic mountain performance perhaps Bruyneel would push Contador for the polka although I am not sure he is capable of that?

Anyway this is hypothetical as Astana are BBBBBBBBBB.......anned!
 
plectrum said:
FS, no I think i have got it exactly right. Kloden would have moved if he wasn't given assurances that he would be given fair billing in Le Tour. Certainly Levi would argue that Contador is young and has won it and so it is fair that he would be considered also and obviously Contador would say ...'heh I'm the champ!' In an open race where the final decision is taken midway through the as to who ends up as backed for the win I feel Kloden would hold the trump card by being able to beat Levi in Mountains, and Contador in TT (where he could also beat Levi). When looking at this and based on last years epic mountain performance perhaps Bruyneel would push Contador for the polka although I am not sure he is capable of that?

Anyway this is hypothetical as Astana are BBBBBBBBBB.......anned!
Kloden's finished. He can't make up the time Contador would take from him in the mountains and his psyche is too fragile to come from behind.

Even though it's hypothetical, it's still more interesting than the ToC. Is that race over yet? Please, Please bring on the Classics!
 
fscyclist said:
Kloden's finished. He can't make up the time Contador would take from him in the mountains and his psyche is too fragile to come from behind.
Yes but this would have been before he underwent the Bruyneel transformation. Oh and by the way, Contador ain't that hot. He was beaten last year by a Rasmussen and if Vino hadn't crashed neither rider would have been in contention.

Forget the he doped we doped because they all doped, Contador is ZZZZZ snoozable.

Kloden certainly is finished but not because of psyche more because of his choice of team. In terms of in the mountains ... Armstrong won 7 TdF because of TT and stamina in the mountains rather than a polka dot climbing ability. Last year if Vino & Kloden hand't crashed both riders would have beaten Contador in the GC.
 
plectrum said:
Yes but this would have been before he underwent the Bruyneel transformation. Oh and by the way, Contador ain't that hot. He was beaten last year by a Rasmussen and if Vino hadn't crashed neither rider would have been in contention.

Forget the he doped we doped because they all doped, Contador is ZZZZZ snoozable.

Kloden certainly is finished but not because of psyche more because of his choice of team. In terms of in the mountains ... Armstrong won 7 TdF because of TT and stamina in the mountains rather than a polka dot climbing ability. Last year if Vino & Kloden hand't crashed both riders would have beaten Contador in the GC.
Yes, Contador was effectively beaten by Ras, but both of them beat the **** out of everyone else.

How can you say Contador was ZZZZ...? The battle between he and Ras was the best thing we've seen in years (until they made Ras quit), or maybe you're one of the Aussies that likes watching wheel sucking fred's like Cadel clumsily sway their bike up the mountains.

Sure....Kloden could've won if he didn't crash or his team didn't quit the race. BTW, Hincapie would've won the last 7 Paris-Roubaix if he didn't crash, flat, have his POS bike fall apart, or mysteriously run off the road.
 
I feel Kloden would hold the trump card by being able to beat Levi in Mountains, and Contador in TT (where he could also beat Levi).


Not so sure about that, let's not forget that Levi just got done whalluping Cancellara in the ToC TT.


In terms of in the mountains ... Armstrong won 7 TdF because of TT and stamina in the mountains rather than a polka dot climbing ability.

Stamina in the mountains that won him quite a few mountain stages. And gifted at least one. --on a side note, I know that the stage winner automatically gets tested immediately, what about second place? Maybe "gifting" a stage may be a good way to avoid being tested... :confused:
 
plectrum said:
Yes but this would have been before he underwent the Bruyneel transformation. Oh and by the way, Contador ain't that hot. He was beaten last year by a Rasmussen and if Vino hadn't crashed neither rider would have been in contention.
You really think that Kloeden underwent a Bruyneel transformation? Given how Bruyneel was handling Kloeden at hands length, I would be a bit surprised if he were included in the "inner circle" where the transformation takes place.
 
I think some of the issue is collusion. As soon as the UCI started touting Contador as part of the new clean generation ASO knew something was up.... Bruyneel and the UCI were back to there old tricks.... they want to make cycling Global but whether you like it or not the 3 days of Shanghai will never be the 3 days of De Panne. Period. End of story. The UCI can no longer meddle and engineer results for the Tour like they have in the past.
 
whiteboytrash said:
The UCI can no longer meddle and engineer results for the Tour like they have in the past.
LOL, and try to convince us that Langkawi should replace the Paris-Nice or Tirreno-Adriatico as an important Pro-Tour race... mamma mia.
 
TheDarkLord said:
You really think that Kloeden underwent a Bruyneel transformation? Given how Bruyneel was handling Kloeden at hands length, I would be a bit surprised if he were included in the "inner circle" where the transformation takes place.
I've been looking at the palmares of the Astana 'super 3' and am woefully disappointed - you have to say pro cycling really has gone down the toilet since the early years of Armstrong - remember when his most credible opponent was Beloki, a man whose biggest win was the Tour of Catalonia? Now we have Kloden (Paris-Nice and umm...), Leipheimer (ToC - wow, Route du Sud, D-L - hardly stellar for a TdF favourite, are they?) and Contador (OK, he won the Tour when Rasmussen, clearly the superior rider, was withdrawn but P-N and Castille y Leon, hardly the stuff of legends).

Let's face it, for a team and riders 'too strong' for the race they don't really add up on paper, do they?
 
micron said:
I've been looking at the palmares of the Astana 'super 3' and am woefully disappointed - you have to say pro cycling really has gone down the toilet since the early years of Armstrong - remember when his most credible opponent was Beloki, a man whose biggest win was the Tour of Catalonia? Now we have Kloden (Paris-Nice and umm...), Leipheimer (ToC - wow, Route du Sud, D-L - hardly stellar for a TdF favourite, are they?) and Contador (OK, he won the Tour when Rasmussen, clearly the superior rider, was withdrawn but P-N and Castille y Leon, hardly the stuff of legends).

Let's face it, for a team and riders 'too strong' for the race they don't really add up on paper, do they?
Come on man be fair.

Levi:
2000 1st Stage 2 Circuit Franco-Belge
2005 3rd Dauphine Libere
2006 12th Tour de France

Kloden:
2000 Bronze Medal Olympic RR
2006 Regio Tour winner
2007 2nd Prologue Tour de France

Contador:
2004 5th Setmana Catalana
2006 5th Overall, Vuelta al Pais
2006 1st Stage 8, Tour de Suisse

Those are some strong horses, and if they were horses, they would have at least 3 more years until we sent them to to glue factory. You are being completely unfair....
 
There certainly aren't any "phenoms" right now, as far as stage racing or all-around riders. Part of that may be specialization in the sport, but I do miss the days when there were superstar riders capable of winning a grand tour and still be threats in the classics (Hinault, Kelly, Lemond, etc.)
 
kennf said:
There certainly aren't any "phenoms" right now, as far as stage racing or all-around riders. Part of that may be specialization in the sport, but I do miss the days when there were superstar riders capable of winning a grand tour and still be threats in the classics (Hinault, Kelly, Lemond, etc.)
I dunno - ok, maybe none of them are "phenoms", granted, but (and setting aside the doping question) both Valverde and DiLuca have shown that they are at least capable of winning both GTs and classics. Cunego too, and maybe one or both of the Schlecks in the forseeable future.
 
Powerful Pete said:
LOL, and try to convince us that Langkawi should replace the Paris-Nice or Tirreno-Adriatico as an important Pro-Tour race... mamma mia.
Agreed it like trying to sale Gaelic football to the world.... the rest of the world is just not going to get it............... Its ok to have exhibition matches or in cycling terms a criteriums but the UCI need to stop thinking about money and promote the sport in its heartland.... well considering there shite at doing that let ASO do it…. I’m fine with that…..
 
whiteboytrash said:
Agreed it like trying to sale Gaelic football to the world.... the rest of the world is just not going to get it............... Its ok to have exhibition matches or in cycling terms a criteriums but the UCI need to stop thinking about money and promote the sport in its heartland.... well considering there shite at doing that let ASO do it…. I’m fine with that…..
IMO, the problem is that UCI is not willing to work with ASO. It is all about power and control. I'm perfectly fine with UCI trying to globalize cycling with more tours. But it needs to recognize that there are many classic races that are not going to be replaced by lesser tours; and it needs to work with the organizations that organize these races. Instead, egomaniac McQuaid wants all the power to himself. Anyway, the way he has handled the entire situation, by escalating it through threats, rather than trying to patch things up, makes him a big jackass with zero interpersonal skills. I don't think this character deserves to be the head of an organization like UCI.
 

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