you wouldn't happen to be on the wattage forum as well? you do talk about watts a lot ;-)BlueJersey said:Here is Jan.
http://lists.topica.com/lists/wattage/read?
i'm Rich H there
The "Average Speed" Mystery
- Thread starter AmpedCycle
- Start date
http://lists.topica.com/lists/wattage/read?
i'm Rich H there
I lurk there once a while and I don't post there. I just don't like their layout there.
velomanct said:
Amped: The problem is that you ask "How am I doing?" Start with a TT: 24-25mph is good, 25+ is what it takes to be near the top of the finishing list. So if you can avg 21-23mph for 50 miles, you're doing well, since you'll be faster over the typical TT distances (normally 10-25 miles). If 21-23 is your avg for 3 miles, according to Bicycling Magazine you're "only" a good recreational rider. If your question is how would you be as a racer, you just can't tell from avg speed, since its about peak power and recovery. I'll go around 22-23mph for a flat 10 miles, and I consider myself a horrible TT rider (58 yrs old, 139 lbs, just not a horsepower machine...). But put me in a crit or RR (add some climbing please) and I still finish in the open cat3/4 main pack, and am competitive in my age group. You'll get more useful responses if you give more info, and when you ask "how am I doing" say relative to what group (recreational riders? racers? TT and triathalon competitors? etc.) How you're doing relative to the readers of this forum is useless, since we range from teenagers to old goats like me, and recreational riders to higher-cat racers.
not to change the topic of this thread, but this comment reminds me of the time I was descending a small hill at about 35 mph (and the speed limit was 25 mph), only to notice a police officer with his radar gun up ahead. I wizzed by and he started yelling "slow down!". Obviously I responded, "yah right", as I looked up at the next fairly steep hill.howierart said:
Well, not quite pointless really as it can win one the prelude to the TDF or the local club TT. 25 mph used to be the magic number to strive for in the day of non aero equipped riding, and if one can top this today it is still pretty good.
As for me personally I ride on the flats so seldom I have lost intimate contact with an average speed for the flats. I hilly conditions, probably 1K ft. of vertical gain climbing per every 10 miles or so we strive for 15 mph 'round here.
To pull at the front of a group on the flats 26+ may keep all but the anxious in tow for a while, at least.
As for me personally I ride on the flats so seldom I have lost intimate contact with an average speed for the flats. I hilly conditions, probably 1K ft. of vertical gain climbing per every 10 miles or so we strive for 15 mph 'round here.
To pull at the front of a group on the flats 26+ may keep all but the anxious in tow for a while, at least.
BlueJersey said:
I have been riding long enough to know my cadence without looking at anything, so i don't need a computer to tell me. If I really want to evealuate my performance I would be more inclined to use the time a ride takes rather then even look at average speed. I have a loop I like to do that has two one mile climbs, one at 12%, it takes me about an hour. If I finish it in 56 minutes and feel pretty fresh then I know where i am at, if it takes me 1:05 and I am blown then I know where i am at. Average speed means nothing to me unless I am trying to burn off extra weight and that's only because I can follow how many calories I burn.AmpedCycle said:
Don't look at time. Use your preceived effort is a good way to judge the work you do. A windy day can slow you down a lot (more time to complete the course). That's why training with power is superior. Watts is watts. For example, my last race I did we have an average speed of 25 mph, cat3/4 field. Little wind. Pace was fast because a lot of riders determined to close down any gap. One look at my power reading result, this race was a bit easier than the one I did 2 weeks ago. 2 weeks ago was windy but the average speed was slower. Average speed??? Average what??? Only tri geeks worry about average speed and that's why they are not good racers. Cat4? They are lucky if they don't crash racing cat5.
Only tri geeks worry about average speed and that's why they are not good racers. Cat4? They are lucky if they don't crash racing cat5. House said:
Average speed is a good "yardstick" for the recreational rider, especially for beginners. All cycling group and club sites classify their group rides by distance and average pace. Knowing your average speed telss you were you would fit in this way. Most recreational riders don't ride with HRMs and don't really care where they would finish in a race, since they are not racing. Average speed is also helpful for planning: if you're doing a new ride or a century you can guesstimate you're arrival time, thus avoiding the "you're 3 hours late" discussion with your wife.
Ahhh, but some of us have to spend money on things like new windows, one year anniversary presents, getting my lawn to look decent and the like and thus can't afford power meters! If you are giving one away I would be happy to take it!BlueJersey said:Don't look at time. Use your preceived effort is a good way to judge the work you do. A windy day can slow you down a lot (more time to complete the course). That's why training with power is superior. Watts is watts. For example, my last race I did we have an average speed of 25 mph, cat3/4 field. Little wind. Pace was fast because a lot of riders determined to close down any gap. One look at my power reading result, this race was a bit easier than the one I did 2 weeks ago. 2 weeks ago was windy but the average speed was slower. Average speed??? Average what???
I did mention percieved effort, I just believe that percieved effort with time is good for us poor folk! By the way I am a tri geek as well as a racer and am one of the best bike handlers in town!
I am poor too but I don't spend my money on other non-cycling necessities.
House said:Ahhh, but some of us have to spend money on things like new windows, one year anniversary presents, getting my lawn to look decent and the like and thus can't afford power meters! If you are giving one away I would be happy to take it!
That whole, wife, house, dog, thing blows that theory! Though through selling a bunch of stuff on ebay(as a college coach and former student-athlete with a lot of athlete friends I have a lot of cool stuff I never wear) I have been able to get a lot of good stuff using other peoples money! (the people who paid me.)BlueJersey said:
How is your response a valid argument? You mention that you would judge your performance in times depending on how you felt. My original post stated, "... [average speed is] the best judge of my effort when I know enough about conditions, my bike, and myself." How is this any different from what you said?House said:
Time is still a function of average speed, so you're making a bad/unsound rationalization. In fact, you're using average speed whether you think it OR not.
No not just tri-g**ks, but even racers. howabout in a crit. we had a team member who would make graphs of lap by lap time elapsed for a .75 mile four corner crit which featured howling bayside winds. when it got down to 1:20
per lap those who were not worried about which is superior, effort or speed, were well off the back.
I know this is not a direct correlation but let's not disregard entirely such a
comparison.
my first bike racing coach would tell us to do ITT's because it is, after all is said and done, "the race of truth". and as such ultimately usefull to even the cat X/X racer. and there is not always such a big diff 'tween cat 4 and the hallowed cat x/x here in district 5.
while i do not feel compelled to rally in defense of the tri g**k, i have seen the shirtless wonders get in front and on the aerobars pulling the ride while the racers they were not as good as were content to be in tow at 30 at least for a while, merciless yellin' and all.
let's give house a break whydon'twe.
per lap those who were not worried about which is superior, effort or speed, were well off the back.
I know this is not a direct correlation but let's not disregard entirely such a
comparison.
my first bike racing coach would tell us to do ITT's because it is, after all is said and done, "the race of truth". and as such ultimately usefull to even the cat X/X racer. and there is not always such a big diff 'tween cat 4 and the hallowed cat x/x here in district 5.
while i do not feel compelled to rally in defense of the tri g**k, i have seen the shirtless wonders get in front and on the aerobars pulling the ride while the racers they were not as good as were content to be in tow at 30 at least for a while, merciless yellin' and all.
let's give house a break whydon'twe.
BlueJersey said:Don't look at time. Use your preceived effort is a good way to judge the work you do. A windy day can slow you down a lot (more time to complete the course). That's why training with power is superior. Watts is watts. For example, my last race I did we have an average speed of 25 mph, cat3/4 field. Little wind. Pace was fast because a lot of riders determined to close down any gap. One look at my power reading result, this race was a bit easier than the one I did 2 weeks ago. 2 weeks ago was windy but the average speed was slower. Average speed??? Average what???
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