The big fat con story



M

Mike Kruger

Guest
The Guardian has an excerpt from a new book by Paul Campos, "The Obesity
Myth". The excerpt is titled "The big fat con story."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/weekend/story/0,3605,1200549,00.html

There are some interesting points made about the relative unimportance of
body weight per se; I realize that the Guardian is not a medical journal
(and I have no idea of Campos's credentials), but it makes interesting
reading.

Of most relevance here are the following paragraphs on the relative
importance of overweight versus exercise:

"Over the past 20 years, scientists have gathered a wealth of evidence
indicating that cardiovascular and metabolic fitness, and the activity
levels that promote such fitness, are far more important predictors of both
overall health and mortality risk than weight. Yet none of the studies most
often cited for the proposition that fat kills makes any serious attempt to
control for these variables.

"The most extensive work of this sort has been carried out by Steven Blair
and his colleagues at Dallas's Cooper Institute, involving more than 70,000
people. What they have discovered is that, quite simply, when researchers
take into account the activity levels and resulting fitness of the people
being studied, body mass appears to have no relevance to health whatsoever.
In Blair's studies, obese people who engage in at least moderate levels of
physical activity have around one half the mortality rate of sedentary
people who maintain supposedly ideal weight levels.

"Similarly, a 1999 Cooper Institute study involving 22,000 men found the
highest death rate among sedentary men with waist measurements under 34
inches, while the lowest death rate was found among fit men with waist
measurements of 40 inches or more. A 1995 Blair study found that improved
fitness (ie, going from "unfit" to "fit"), with the latter requiring a level
of exercise equivalent to going for a brisk half-hour walk four or five
times per week, reduced subsequent mortality rates by 50%. As Blair himself
puts it, Americans have "a misdirected obsession with weight and weight
loss. The focus is all wrong. It's fitness that is the key." "

Other interesting claims: (1) people who are overweight have less problem
with osteoporesis, (2) The diet Hillary put Bill Clinton on might have been
partly responsible for his obsession with Monica Lewinsky.

--
---
Mike Kruger
Blog: http://journals.aol.com/mikekr/ZbicyclistsZlog/
 
<< (2) The diet Hillary put Bill Clinton on might have been
partly responsible for his obsession with Monica Lewinsky. >>

You mean the No-Sex Diet?

You know, for a president, Clinton sure did have some
surprisingly low standards with the babes. Come on,
buddy!

I guess having a head like a weather balloon didn't help
his cause much.

Robert
 
On Wed, 12 May 2004 00:23:56 GMT, "Mike Kruger"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>"Over the past 20 years, scientists have gathered a wealth of evidence
>indicating that cardiovascular and metabolic fitness, and the activity
>levels that promote such fitness, are far more important predictors of both
>overall health and mortality risk than weight.

....
>puts it, Americans have "a misdirected obsession with weight and weight
>loss. The focus is all wrong. It's fitness that is the key." "


I figured this out when I dieted myself down to the upper-limit of
my recommended weight. I felt terrible all the time, even though I
was sure to provide sufficient nutrition. I've got little chance of
being healthy if I ignore what my body tells me and force myself
down to 170 pounds; OTOH, at 210 pounds, I feel good. I'd probably
be best at 200, but hey, I get to eat all of everything I want this
way...

On the way back up from 170, I tried to level off every 5 pounds,
but I didn't feel better until maybe 195. For another 15 or 20
pounds, I can eat cheeseburgers and cake all day, and remain healthy
as long as I keep riding. My cholesterol is low, etc...I've just got
this aerobelly.
--
Rick Onanian
 
Rick Onanian wrote:
:: On Wed, 12 May 2004 00:23:56 GMT, "Mike Kruger"
:: <[email protected]> wrote:
::: "Over the past 20 years, scientists have gathered a wealth of
::: evidence indicating that cardiovascular and metabolic fitness, and
::: the activity levels that promote such fitness, are far more
::: important predictors of both overall health and mortality risk than
::: weight.
:: ...
::: puts it, Americans have "a misdirected obsession with weight and
::: weight loss. The focus is all wrong. It's fitness that is the key."
::: "
::
:: I figured this out when I dieted myself down to the upper-limit of
:: my recommended weight. I felt terrible all the time, even though I
:: was sure to provide sufficient nutrition. I've got little chance of
:: being healthy if I ignore what my body tells me and force myself
:: down to 170 pounds; OTOH, at 210 pounds, I feel good. I'd probably
:: be best at 200, but hey, I get to eat all of everything I want this
:: way...
::
:: On the way back up from 170, I tried to level off every 5 pounds,
:: but I didn't feel better until maybe 195. For another 15 or 20
:: pounds, I can eat cheeseburgers and cake all day, and remain healthy
:: as long as I keep riding. My cholesterol is low, etc...I've just got
:: this aerobelly.

So, I'm curious as to what speed you average on your typical rides, given
the type of terrain you ride and how long you've been at it.

I'm about 240 lbs right now, so I'd like an idea of what I might be able to
expect if/when I get to 210 or so (I'm 6'1").

:: --
:: Rick Onanian
 
I wrote:
>:: On the way back up from 170, I tried to level off every 5 pounds,
>:: but I didn't feel better until maybe 195. For another 15 or 20
>:: pounds, I can eat cheeseburgers and cake all day, and remain healthy
>:: as long as I keep riding. My cholesterol is low, etc...I've just got
>:: this aerobelly.

On Tue, 11 May 2004 21:40:44 -0400, "Roger Zoul"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>So, I'm curious as to what speed you average on your typical rides, given
>the type of terrain you ride and how long you've been at it.


I try to ride the flattest terrain I can. The reality is that I live
in Rhode Island which doesn't have any portion of pavement that goes
more than a mile without going up or down.

Today, riding partially with a group, I averaged 15 mph for 34
miles. Usually, I fail to pace myself well, and the end result is an
average between 13 and 14.5, and I feel terrible afterwards. Tonight
I feel great.

Of course, the hills around here do have one advantage: Max 43 mph,
and I didn't even decide to try for a high speed until after I was
already on the hill.

>I'm about 240 lbs right now, so I'd like an idea of what I might be able to
>expect if/when I get to 210 or so (I'm 6'1").


I'm a few inches shorter than you, medium to large frame (body
frame, not bike frame ;).
--
Rick Onanian
 
On Tue, 11 May 2004 21:16:04 -0400, Rick Onanian <[email protected]> wrote:

>On Wed, 12 May 2004 00:23:56 GMT, "Mike Kruger"
><[email protected]> wrote:
>>"Over the past 20 years, scientists have gathered a wealth of evidence
>>indicating that cardiovascular and metabolic fitness, and the activity
>>levels that promote such fitness, are far more important predictors of both
>>overall health and mortality risk than weight.

>...
>>puts it, Americans have "a misdirected obsession with weight and weight
>>loss. The focus is all wrong. It's fitness that is the key." "

>
>I figured this out when I dieted myself down to the upper-limit of
>my recommended weight. I felt terrible all the time, even though I
>was sure to provide sufficient nutrition. I've got little chance of
>being healthy if I ignore what my body tells me and force myself
>down to 170 pounds; OTOH, at 210 pounds, I feel good. I'd probably
>be best at 200, but hey, I get to eat all of everything I want this
>way...


Hmm. I'm doing LC, but at a rate of biking 100 miles per week, I can eat
pretty much whatever I want and still lose weight. I'm down six pounds this
month, and have actually been overeating a little.

What's your current weekly mileage?

-B
 
In article <[email protected]>,
Badger_South <[email protected]> wrote:
>On Tue, 11 May 2004 21:16:04 -0400, Rick Onanian <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 12 May 2004 00:23:56 GMT, "Mike Kruger"
>><[email protected]> wrote:
>>>"Over the past 20 years, scientists have gathered a wealth of evidence
>>>indicating that cardiovascular and metabolic fitness, and the activity
>>>levels that promote such fitness, are far more important predictors of both
>>>overall health and mortality risk than weight.

>>...
>>>puts it, Americans have "a misdirected obsession with weight and weight
>>>loss. The focus is all wrong. It's fitness that is the key." "

>>
>>I figured this out when I dieted myself down to the upper-limit of
>>my recommended weight. I felt terrible all the time, even though I
>>was sure to provide sufficient nutrition. I've got little chance of
>>being healthy if I ignore what my body tells me and force myself
>>down to 170 pounds; OTOH, at 210 pounds, I feel good. I'd probably
>>be best at 200, but hey, I get to eat all of everything I want this
>>way...

>
>Hmm. I'm doing LC, but at a rate of biking 100 miles per week, I can eat
>pretty much whatever I want and still lose weight. I'm down six pounds this
>month, and have actually been overeating a little.


If you're losing weight you have a net deficit of calories, which
means you are not over-eating. Six pounds in a month is pretty fast
weight loss, how long have you been getting results like that?

I am riding about 10-12 hours a week and maintaining pretty steady
weight... it does take a lot of food, but I don't have much weight
to lose, maybe another 5-10 tops so I don't worry about it.

Back to the topic though, while active overweight people may have
a reasonably healthy heart, in the long run many of them will develop
joint problems due to excess weight (knees, ankles, hips). These
problems are very hard to fix later in life and often contribute
to further increases in weight - joint problems tend to increase
sedentary behavior since moving hurts. Debilitating back pain
caused/worsened by excess weight is epidemic in this country, it
virtually supports the painkiller industry.
 
Paul Southworth wrote:
:: In article <[email protected]>,
:: Badger_South <[email protected]> wrote:
::: On Tue, 11 May 2004 21:16:04 -0400, Rick Onanian <[email protected]>
::: wrote:
:::
:::: On Wed, 12 May 2004 00:23:56 GMT, "Mike Kruger"
:::: <[email protected]> wrote:
::::: "Over the past 20 years, scientists have gathered a wealth of
::::: evidence indicating that cardiovascular and metabolic fitness,
::::: and the activity levels that promote such fitness, are far more
::::: important predictors of both overall health and mortality risk
::::: than weight.
:::: ...
::::: puts it, Americans have "a misdirected obsession with weight and
::::: weight loss. The focus is all wrong. It's fitness that is the
::::: key." "
::::
:::: I figured this out when I dieted myself down to the upper-limit of
:::: my recommended weight. I felt terrible all the time, even though I
:::: was sure to provide sufficient nutrition. I've got little chance of
:::: being healthy if I ignore what my body tells me and force myself
:::: down to 170 pounds; OTOH, at 210 pounds, I feel good. I'd probably
:::: be best at 200, but hey, I get to eat all of everything I want this
:::: way...
:::
::: Hmm. I'm doing LC, but at a rate of biking 100 miles per week, I
::: can eat pretty much whatever I want and still lose weight. I'm down
::: six pounds this month, and have actually been overeating a little.
::
:: If you're losing weight you have a net deficit of calories, which
:: means you are not over-eating. Six pounds in a month is pretty fast
:: weight loss, how long have you been getting results like that?
::
:: I am riding about 10-12 hours a week and maintaining pretty steady
:: weight... it does take a lot of food, but I don't have much weight
:: to lose, maybe another 5-10 tops so I don't worry about it.
::
:: Back to the topic though, while active overweight people may have
:: a reasonably healthy heart, in the long run many of them will develop
:: joint problems due to excess weight (knees, ankles, hips).

How overweight do people have to be to develop joint problems? I see many
normal weight older people with joint problems, too. ARe you sure there are
not other reasons why people develop joint problems?

Do you have any data/cites on this or is this just more commonsensical
information?

These
:: problems are very hard to fix later in life and often contribute
:: to further increases in weight - joint problems tend to increase
:: sedentary behavior since moving hurts. Debilitating back pain
:: caused/worsened by excess weight is epidemic in this country, it
:: virtually supports the painkiller industry.
 
Mike Kruger wrote:
> The Guardian has an excerpt from a new book by Paul Campos, "The Obesity
> Myth". The excerpt is titled "The big fat con story." http://www.guardi-
> an.co.uk/weekend/story/0,3605,1200549,00.htmlhttp://www.guardian.co.uk/-
> weekend/story/0,3605,1200549,00.html




I agree Mike, I found the article very interesting indeed. After years
of struggling with my weight, I've finally tossed out the scales. My
goal is to improve my fitness; if the wieght comes off or the dress size
goes down, that's nice but I'd rather be strong than slim and maybe I'm
one of those people who has to make a choice.

After 40+ years, I've finally accepted that I'm not going to be tall and
leggy. I'm short with a "mature" build. Now the goal is to make that
short mature build into a mean keen hill climbing machine....and God,
I'm having a blast doing it.:D



--
 

>::: Hmm. I'm doing LC, but at a rate of biking 100 miles per week, I
>::: can eat pretty much whatever I want and still lose weight. I'm down
>::: six pounds this month, and have actually been overeating a little.
>::
>:: If you're losing weight you have a net deficit of calories, which
>:: means you are not over-eating. Six pounds in a month is pretty fast
>:: weight loss, how long have you been getting results like that?


I've kinda lost the attribution as to whom I'm responding, but if I can
clarify...

I've upped the mileage in the last four weeks, by about double from 50miles
per week to 100. During all that time, I've been trying to lose fat weight.
I still have 20-30lbs left to go to get under 20% fat (between 12 and 15%
is my goal, then re-assess).

So I'm obviously, now, in some kind of caloric deficit due to the higher
energy expenditure. I was using the term 'overeating' in a relative manner.
IOW, I'm used to eating less and still not losing that quickly. Now I can
indulge a bit more than I'm used to and not only maintain, but actually
lose weight. Six pounds a month is a little higher than usual (1 to 1.5lbs
per week seems to be optimal)

I'm hoping that I've reached the point where I can eat as much as I want
(within reason), but since I'm working out on the bike so much, I'll still
be in deficit enough to continue losing fat. Thus the low carb/ higher
protein (which, for me, helps to lose fat while not sacrificing too much
muscle) works pretty well for this goal.

(It's important to note that you have to find your own 'level' of dieting
by experimentation. What works for me might be wrong for someone else.)

-B

>::
>:: I am riding about 10-12 hours a week and maintaining pretty steady
>:: weight... it does take a lot of food, but I don't have much weight
>:: to lose, maybe another 5-10 tops so I don't worry about it.
 
On Wed, 12 May 2004 03:51:36 GMT, Brunswick_kate
<[email protected]> wrote:

>I agree Mike, I found the article very interesting indeed. After years
>of struggling with my weight, I've finally tossed out the scales. My
>goal is to improve my fitness; if the wieght comes off or the dress size
>goes down, that's nice but I'd rather be strong than slim and maybe I'm
>one of those people who has to make a choice.
>
>After 40+ years, I've finally accepted that I'm not going to be tall and
>leggy. I'm short with a "mature" build. Now the goal is to make that
>short mature build into a mean keen hill climbing machine....and God,
>I'm having a blast doing it.:D


That's great. I'd set the limits (for me) at:
o No obvious sub-cutaneous fat bulging off of me
o Having a shape (waistline)
o Not carrying excess (fat) weight that it slows me down on the bike.

The goal would be:
o Being able to see my abs
o Getting back into the clothes I wore in college
o Working out enough that I'm in a slight caloric deficit.

I did this goal in 2001, but due to some setbacks, regained some weight.
I'm now hopefull with the extra mileage I'm putting in the recomposition
will be permanent. The last time I did it was pure diet (LC), and I did no
exercising at all.

-B
 
The overall thrust of this story, that being fat is perhaps medically OK, is
grossly wrong. But there is one point at the end that merits comment for
cyclists in particular:

>Other interesting claims: (1) people who are overweight have less problem with

osteoporesis

The best preventatives for Osteoporosis are: (1) weight-bearing exercise; and
(2) diet rich in calcium, vitamin D, and other bone-building nutrients. It is
the first of these that is important for cyclists, because medical studies have
shown that bikers tend to get lighter, less-sturdy bones because cycling is not
a "weight-bearing" exercise. Supplement cycling with running and you will have
the best of both worlds.

Why do the obese score OK on these two marks? (1) All of their exercise (such
as it it) is extremely "weight-bearing;" and (2) They eat so much of everything
that of course they have sufficient calcium intake and other trace nutrients.

But the cost to their health just for those 2 things? Sheesh. Let's cycle and
run instead.
 
In article <[email protected]>,
"Roger Zoul" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Paul Southworth wrote:


> :: Back to the topic though, while active overweight people may have
> :: a reasonably healthy heart, in the long run many of them will develop
> :: joint problems due to excess weight (knees, ankles, hips).
>
> How overweight do people have to be to develop joint problems? I see many
> normal weight older people with joint problems, too. ARe you sure there are
> not other reasons why people develop joint problems?
>
> Do you have any data/cites on this or is this just more commonsensical
> information?


Anecdotal evidence is fun!

I have had occasional back problems since I was in my teens. I'm pretty
lazy about doing the recommended strengthening exercises and so forth.

In the last four years I have slowly dropped from about 190 pounds to
about 150 pounds. Much of this was accomplished by adding a lot of
riding to my life, and I do little else for exercise (weekly intramural
gym sports during the Winter). Specifically, I should probably work on
my core muscles and upper body.

My back problems have all but disappeared. I can't remember the last
time I had a back spasm or any pain.

> These
> :: problems are very hard to fix later in life and often contribute
> :: to further increases in weight - joint problems tend to increase
> :: sedentary behavior since moving hurts. Debilitating back pain
> :: caused/worsened by excess weight is epidemic in this country, it
> :: virtually supports the painkiller industry.


On the other hand, my Achilles tendons are pretty sensitive, and the
knee issues can crop up if I don't do my knee exercises.

-RjC.

--
Ryan Cousineau, [email protected] http://www.sfu.ca/~rcousine/wiredcola/
President, Fabrizio Mazzoleni Fan Club
 
> the lowest death rate was found among fit men with waist measurements
> of 40 inches or more.


I wish to take this opportunity to toast my fellow fat and fit
Falstaffian 40-inchers to a long, happy, hale and hearty life: Salud!
 
In article <[email protected]>,
"Mike Kruger" <[email protected]> wrote:

> The Guardian has an excerpt from a new book by Paul Campos, "The Obesity
> Myth". The excerpt is titled "The big fat con story."
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/weekend/story/0,3605,1200549,00.html
>
> There are some interesting points made about the relative unimportance of
> body weight per se; I realize that the Guardian is not a medical journal
> (and I have no idea of Campos's credentials), but it makes interesting
> reading.


I think the thesis of this article (fitness levels are more important
than BMI) is about as uncontroversial a medical statement as you could
make; as far as I know there isn't a doctor in the world who would be
especially worried about an active patient carrying 10 pounds above BMI.
And there's something the article doesn't point it out explicitly,
because it would spoil the fun: the common description of a person with
an active lifestyle and a BMI in the 25-30 range is "buff". I bet Brad
Pitt has a "bad" BMI because he's carrying movie-star grade muscle mass
around (also my excuse, of course). Lots of athletes (not GC cyclists,
mind; power-to-weight ratios are too important to hill-climbing
performance to carry much extra mass) carry around "fat" BMIs because
the BMI charts don't say anything sensible about well-muscled people.

What really worried me is that the article didn't contemplate a
relationship between BMI and fitness levels. I'll bet there is one,
based on the virtuous cycle that fat people (me, 4 years ago) who start
to take up some exercise (me, 3 years ago) start to become fitter, which
makes them able to exercise more, which makes them thinner. I predict it
would be a bell curve: you get more active (and fit) as you converge on
a weight around the high end of the BMI "normal" standard, or a bit
above that. become too fat or too thin, and both health and activity
levels probably decline.

On the reverse, I doubt that people who diet down to a weight get to
experience the same sort of virtuous cycle: dieting doesn't usually make
you want to get more exercise.

So the questions I'm asking are, are there really significant numbers of
obese-but-active people? Most of the really heavy people I know find
their activity levels curtailed by their weight.

> Of most relevance here are the following paragraphs on the relative
> importance of overweight versus exercise:


> "Similarly, a 1999 Cooper Institute study involving 22,000 men found the
> highest death rate among sedentary men with waist measurements under 34
> inches, while the lowest death rate was found among fit men with waist
> measurements of 40 inches or more. A 1995 Blair study found that improved
> fitness (ie, going from "unfit" to "fit"), with the latter requiring a level
> of exercise equivalent to going for a brisk half-hour walk four or five
> times per week, reduced subsequent mortality rates by 50%. As Blair himself
> puts it, Americans have "a misdirected obsession with weight and weight
> loss. The focus is all wrong. It's fitness that is the key." "


The conclusion is correct, but I don't know what to make of the waist
measurement stat, which is either garbled reportage (from the Grauniad?
Shocked, shocked!) or a nonsense finding. Does this mean that tall men
live longer? Well, sucks to be me. Without controlling for body
proportions (as opposed to raw waist measurements) this study would seem
to be discovering a correlation between longevity and bigness, not
fatness. (But it also has the conventional finding that activity is an
excellent way to delay death).

> Other interesting claims: (1) people who are overweight have less problem
> with osteoporesis, (2) The diet Hillary put Bill Clinton on might have been
> partly responsible for his obsession with Monica Lewinsky.


Blaming Bill's belly for his tryst with Monica seems to me to put the
blame just a few inches too high.

As for the osteoperosis claim, that's well-understood: fat people's
bones carry lots of load all the time, so it's like getting a constant
impact workout at a low-level.

Cyclists, by the way, are notoriously osteoperotic; any avid cyclist
should consider adding a small component of impact exercise (weights,
jump rope, punching people) to their routine for bone-building.

These articles get into a lot of "what are we doing to our girls?" body
image madness and so forth, but conveniently forget that while getting
really sick or dying from anorexia or bulimia is a really rare thing
even among the privileged-white-girl demographic in which it wreaks its
greatest havoc, getting really sick or dying from causes related to
being fat (or perhaps, as this article would prefer us to specify, from
being sedentary) is really common.

I'm also pretty appalled that it pulls fun stunts like lumping in the
"overweight" (BMI 25-30) and "obese" (BMI 30+) numbers to get the big
scary 64.5% figure. This allows fun fudges like pointing out that "fat"
people (meaning those 27 BMI types) have very good health if they keep
active, while ignoring the specific ailments that affect the (growing)
population of obese (30+ BMI) adults.

The article does some useful statistical skewering: it seems to be on
solid ground when it pokes a hole in the "300,000 annual deaths due to
overweight" stat, though even there I suspect that something is hidden
behind the curtain when they breezily disregard the death of anyone over
65 (and I don't want to make this post longer still, so I'll refrain
from my guesses about bad assumptions that might be causing problems
with the stats here).

On the whole, I think this article oversells the healthiness of being
fat, and undersells both the importance of exercise and activity, and
the extent to which they are already emphasized by most of the sensible
people in the health racket.

Would be a lot less concerned about BMIs if everyone was getting enough
exercise,

Ryan Cousineau, [email protected] http://www.sfu.ca/~rcousine/wiredcola/
President, Fabrizio Mazzoleni Fan Club
 
"Badger_South" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:eek:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 12 May 2004 03:51:36 GMT, Brunswick_kate
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >I agree Mike, I found the article very interesting indeed. After years
> >of struggling with my weight, I've finally tossed out the scales. My
> >goal is to improve my fitness; if the wieght comes off or the dress size
> >goes down, that's nice but I'd rather be strong than slim and maybe I'm
> >one of those people who has to make a choice.
> >
> >After 40+ years, I've finally accepted that I'm not going to be tall and
> >leggy. I'm short with a "mature" build. Now the goal is to make that
> >short mature build into a mean keen hill climbing machine....and God,
> >I'm having a blast doing it.:D

>
> That's great. I'd set the limits (for me) at:
> o No obvious sub-cutaneous fat bulging off of me
> o Having a shape (waistline)
> o Not carrying excess (fat) weight that it slows me down on the bike.
>
> The goal would be:
> o Being able to see my abs
> o Getting back into the clothes I wore in college
> o Working out enough that I'm in a slight caloric deficit.
>
> I did this goal in 2001, but due to some setbacks, regained some weight.
> I'm now hopefull with the extra mileage I'm putting in the recomposition
> will be permanent. The last time I did it was pure diet (LC), and I did no
> exercising at all.


Of course, we don't want to do so much cardio and diet that we become
catabolic and start devouring muscle. You can burn fat faster with strength
training and cardio/diet than with cardio/diet alone. The way racers lose
weight is crazy. Lance Armstrong doesn't eat all day, then rides 6 hours,
and only eats 1500 calories? His body's consuming itself...
 
"TopCounsel" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> The overall thrust of this story, that being fat is perhaps medically OK,

is
> grossly wrong. But there is one point at the end that merits comment for
> cyclists in particular:
>
> >Other interesting claims: (1) people who are overweight have less problem

with
> osteoporesis
>
> The best preventatives for Osteoporosis are: (1) weight-bearing exercise;

and
> (2) diet rich in calcium, vitamin D, and other bone-building nutrients.

It is
> the first of these that is important for cyclists, because medical studies

have
> shown that bikers tend to get lighter, less-sturdy bones because cycling

is not
> a "weight-bearing" exercise. Supplement cycling with running and you will

have
> the best of both worlds.
>


Better yet, how about weightlifting? Far less traumatic than running, plus
you get the benefit of actually building muscle, which burns more fat.
 
>I agree Mike, I found the article very interesting indeed. After years
>of struggling with my weight, I've finally tossed out the scales. My
>goal is to improve my fitness; if the wieght comes off or the dress size
>goes down, that's nice but I'd rather be strong than slim and maybe I'm
>one of those people who has to make a choice.
>
>After 40+ years, I've finally accepted that I'm not going to be tall and
>leggy. I'm short with a "mature" build. Now the goal is to make that
>short mature build into a mean keen hill climbing machine....and God,
>I'm having a blast doing it.:D


I'm overweight - female, 40+. One of my docs thinks any woman who is overweight
is *obviously* depressed. He's a twit, especially as he's not exactly Mr Slim &
Trim himself. I'd like to lose some weight, and am careful about what I eat,
yet I still remain overweight. I can lose a bit and then I plateau at a weight
which is still considered to be overweight in terms of BMI. That plateauing is
a pain-in-the-****. Yet thanks to cycling regularly, I'm fitter than I've been
in many a long year and a good deal fitter than many a slim & trim young thing
around. Yesterday, at the supermarket (where the shopping trolley was full of
fruit, veg, etc. and distinctly short on the bad stuff, the lady on the
checkout was passing the time of day about the weather (a British staple topic
of conversation). She was saying how it's forecast to be very good weather by
the end of the week, and my response was that I'd look forward to that, as it
means I can get out on my bike and really enjoy it. Anyhow - conversation
developed into cycling - and I said that on the last nice Saturday we had, I'd
done a 50 miler and that it was a joy due to the gloriously sunny but not too
hot weather with little wind. Said checkout person's bottom jaw dropped to the
ground. Similarly the person next in the queue who had been listening in, also
had the same phemonenon - bottom jaw dropping to the ground... They could not
envisage anyone doing that length of ride. Indeed the checkout lady, who
occasionally cycles, said anything over 5 miles and she was knackered. She was
about my age and a fair bit slimmer.

I usually cycle about 12 - 15 miles a day, so my cycling is regular exercise,
and often with a rear rack carrying a load of shopping - so it's useful
exercise. I'm getting to the point where the scales are going out of the window
and I'm concentrating on general fitness and finally realising that yes, there
is life for a woman even if she is bigger than a dress size 10 ;-) I may not be
a speed demon on my bike, but I'm fitter than many my age :)

Cheers, helen s




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In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...

....

> So the questions I'm asking are, are there really significant numbers of
> obese-but-active people? Most of the really heavy people I know find
> their activity levels curtailed by their weight.


Many professional football players (lineman, anyway) would fall into
this category, as would the guy I read about yesterday who is the top US
weightlifter: he's 5'9", weighs 370 lbs, and lifted 507 lbs over his
head.

As you say earlier, the BMI only has meaning for unfit/inactive people.
It's charts simply do not apply for active, fit people.

.....

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newsgroups if possible).
 
On Wed, 12 May 2004 00:15:05 -0700, Ryan Cousineau <[email protected]>
wrote:

>So the questions I'm asking are, are there really significant numbers of
>obese-but-active people?


Well, the lower level of obesity calculated on the BMI scale probably
isn't what most people see as obese, so IMO, yes, there are a lot of
active obese people. Most people think of morbidly obese people when
they use the term obese.

I've read two papers, although they may be talking from the same
study, that one reason that heavier people have a lower death rate is
not from the 'normal' deaths, but because they have more resources to
survive diseases that task the body over one long sustained period -
often coming out much lighter. Those going in light end up dead more
often.

Unfortunately, read that long ago, so my memory is real generalized.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...
 

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