The Bonk/over eating/winter

Discussion in 'UK and Europe' started by Peter Rollason, Feb 16, 2003.

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  1. I have noticed I seemed plagued by the bonk in the winter months - today I had 2 breakfasts, did
    around 40 miles, yet still got that dreaded cold sweat, and really having to concentrate - something
    else I have noticed is that I seem to be eating loads ?

    Any thoughts

    No jokes

    Pete.
     
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  2. Simon Mason

    Simon Mason Guest

    "Peter Rollason" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > I have noticed I seemed plagued by the bonk in the winter months - today I had 2 breakfasts, did
    > around 40 miles, yet still got that dreaded cold sweat, and really having to concentrate -
    > something else I have noticed is that I seem to be eating loads ?

    Well, I just did 30 miles last night and another 20 this afternoon with only an energy drink, so I
    don't know what is happening in your case, unless you have some mighty serious hills on your ride.

    --
    Simon Mason Anlaby East Yorkshire. 53°44'N 0°26'W http://www.simonmason.karoo.net
     
  3. Don't get me wrong - I ain't the fitest bloke in the world - I only tend to get out on Sundays. I am
    39, 12st - do other sports, such as Karate, & Circuit training - In the summer I am fine - I just
    wonder why it seems to happen in winter.

    Pete.

    "Simon Mason" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "Peter Rollason" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > I have noticed I seemed plagued by the bonk in the winter months - today
    I
    > > had 2 breakfasts, did around 40 miles, yet still got that dreaded cold sweat, and really having
    > > to concentrate - something else I have noticed
    is
    > > that I seem to be eating loads ?
    >
    > Well, I just did 30 miles last night and another 20 this afternoon with
    > only an energy drink, so I don't know what is happening in your case,
    unless
    > you have some mighty serious hills on your ride.
    >
    > --
    > Simon Mason Anlaby East Yorkshire. 53°44'N 0°26'W http://www.simonmason.karoo.net
     
  4. Simon Mason

    Simon Mason Guest

    "Peter Rollason" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Don't get me wrong - I ain't the fitest bloke in the world - I only tend
    to
    > get out on Sundays. I am 39, 12st - do other sports, such as Karate, & Circuit training - In the
    > summer I am fine - I just wonder why it seems
    to
    > happen in winter.
    >
    > Pete.

    If anything Peter, things seem to be easer for me in winter as I don't get dehydrated like I do in
    summer. If you are only a Sunday rider then perhaps that could be the problem. As I commute by bike
    as well, I am covering about 500 miles a month, so I am probably fairly fit.

    Indeed when I first started cycling five years ago at age 40, 30 miles was a big effort and I had
    cakes, bananas and energy bars to get me through. But honestly, last night in freezing conditions
    after 30 miles, I was breathing through my nose only and riding was very easy. I think it's due to
    getting the miles in day after day.
    --
    Simon Mason Anlaby East Yorkshire. 53°44'N 0°26'W http://www.simonmason.karoo.net
     
  5. Dave

    Dave Guest

    "Peter Rollason" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > I have noticed I seemed plagued by the bonk in the winter months - today I had 2 breakfasts, did
    > around 40 miles, yet still got that dreaded cold sweat, and really having to concentrate -
    > something else I have noticed is that I seem to be eating loads ?
    >
    > Any thoughts
    >
    > No jokes
    >
    > Pete.

    My guess is that you're underestimating the bodies requirement for water, after all, it's bloody
    cold and you don't feel like drinking as much, right? Get it down you son! ;-) You need just as much
    water regardless of the outside air temp, in fact, I think there is a curious situation in cold
    weather when your body exhales *more* moisture in cold than in warm weather.

    Dave.
     
  6. Callas

    Callas Guest

    [email protected] wrote:
    > I have noticed I seemed plagued by the bonk in the winter months - today I had 2 breakfasts, did
    > around 40 miles, yet still got that dreaded cold sweat, and really having to concentrate -
    > something else I have noticed is that I seem to be eating loads ?
    >
    > Any thoughts

    You need to eat *while* you're riding.

    It's all very well chucking down 1000 kcal for breakfast, but that is not by any means all going to
    be immediately available to you as you ride; and doing 40 miles at a reasonable pace (18 to 20mph
    average) is going to use up about 1200 kcal - and that is hitting the limit of how much carbohydrate
    your body has available in one go. You *must* eat energy bars, about half a bar at a time, once
    every 10 minutes or so, during your ride.

    This will maintain the level of simple carbohydrates in your bloodstream, which will permit your fat
    metabolism to work efficiently and reduce the drain on your bodies own resources of carbohydrates.

    --
    Callas
     
  7. Neil D

    Neil D Guest

    "Peter Rollason" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > I have noticed I seemed plagued by the bonk in the winter months - today I had 2 breakfasts, did
    > around 40 miles, yet still got that dreaded cold sweat, and really having to concentrate -
    > something else I have noticed is that I seem to be eating loads ?
    >
    > Any thoughts
    >
    > No jokes
    >
    > Pete.
    >
    Only that I weaken/bonk around 25+m when I start riding again after my 2 month winter lay-off. In my
    case, I feel its because of the lack of aerobic fitness, which means I burn far more "sugars" than
    when fit/trained. Normally, during summer/autumn, I can do 50~60m at the top end of the 150's bpm,
    none stop (>3hrs) without grub. Remember at 3c you have a massive wind-chill factor as well.

    You may want de-worming?
     
  8. James Annan

    James Annan Guest

    Callas wrote:

    >
    > You need to eat *while* you're riding.
    >
    > It's all very well chucking down 1000 kcal for breakfast, but that is not by any means all going
    > to be immediately available to you as you ride; and doing 40 miles at a reasonable pace (18 to
    > 20mph average) is going to use up about 1200 kcal - and that is hitting the limit of how much
    > carbohydrate your body has available in one go. You *must* eat energy bars, about half a bar at a
    > time, once every 10 minutes or so, during your ride.

    That's way OTT for a 2 hour ride. Sure, eating a bit might help (and if the ride is closer to 3
    hours, or even more, then it's definitely a good idea to eat something) but a few snacks is fine
    rather than the force-feeding regime you suggest. Half an energy bar every 10 minutes would
    certainly dampen my enthusiasm for cycling!

    James
     
  9. In article <[email protected]>, James Annan <still_the_same_m [email protected]> writes
    >Callas wrote:
    >
    >>
    >> You need to eat *while* you're riding.
    >>
    >> It's all very well chucking down 1000 kcal for breakfast, but that is not by any means all going
    >> to be immediately available to you as you ride; and doing 40 miles at a reasonable pace (18 to
    >> 20mph average) is going to use up about 1200 kcal - and that is hitting the limit of how much
    >> carbohydrate your body has available in one go. You *must* eat energy bars, about half a bar at a
    >> time, once every 10 minutes or so, during your ride.
    >
    >That's way OTT for a 2 hour ride. Sure, eating a bit might help (and if the ride is closer to 3
    >hours, or even more, then it's definitely a good idea to eat something) but a few snacks is fine
    >rather than the force-feeding regime you suggest. Half an energy bar every 10 minutes would
    >certainly dampen my enthusiasm for cycling!
    >
    It'd also be interesting to know what the OP means by two breakfasts? When I'm planning to ride
    (which these days means almost every day), at this time of year I eat a bowl of porridge and maybe a
    slice or two of bread I bake myself. In the summer I have a bowl of unsweetened muesli mixed with
    fruit juice and yoghurt, with maybe some dried apricots added. I find these very good at keeping me
    going with a slow release of energy over 3 to 4 hours. I certainly don't have a fry-up. Then I'll
    have the odd jaffa cake or fig roll while I'm going, and I take a litre of High 5 with me.
    --
    The Big Baguette
     
  10. Just Zis Guy

    Just Zis Guy Guest

    Callas wrote:

    >> I have noticed I seemed plagued by the bonk in the winter months - today I had 2 breakfasts, did
    >> around 40 miles, yet still got that dreaded cold sweat, and really having to concentrate -
    >> something else I have noticed is that I seem to be eating loads ?

    > You need to eat *while* you're riding.

    I find that I use up the pre-ride reserves at some point between 30 and 35 miles, riding briskly. If
    I trundle I can make 50 before stopping for a sarnie, but prefer to have a bun at elevenses :)

    I also find that my energy requirements are only slightly higher in winter - by the time I've gone
    up the first hill I'm usually unzipping my windproof jacket.

    > You *must* eat energy bars, about half a bar at a time, once every 10 minutes or so, during
    > your ride.

    Must? For a 40 mile ride at an average of slightly over 20mph, with about 20lb of luggage, I find
    that one bog-standard muesli bar somewhere between 30 and 35 miles is sufficient to avoid the bonk.

    The best advice is to listen to your body. If you find that two breakfasts doesn't cut it, eat one
    breakfast and eat more on the ride. But energy bars every ten minutes? Every ten miles, perhaps.

    I find I don't need to eat significantly on short rides like this anyway. I very rarely eat on
    the bike, and the only times when I've actually used energy bars have been when trying to
    complete a century in decent time. 80 miles or more at trundling pace can be achieved without
    eating on the fly.

    --
    Guy
    ===
    I wonder if you wouldn't mind piecing out our imperfections with your thoughts; and while you're
    about it perhaps you could think when we talk of bicycles, that you see them printing their proud
    wheels i' the receiving earth; thanks awfully.

    http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/09.shtml#103 http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/09.shtml#104
     
  11. Just Zis Guy

    Just Zis Guy Guest

    The Big Baguette wrote:

    > It'd also be interesting to know what the OP means by two breakfasts? When I'm planning to ride
    > (which these days means almost every day), at this time of year I eat a bowl of porridge and maybe
    > a slice or two of bread I bake myself.

    Remind me to apply next time you want a ride buddy - I'm a sucker for home-baked bread :)

    > In the summer I have a bowl of unsweetened muesli mixed with fruit juice and yoghurt, with maybe
    > some dried apricots added. I find these very good at keeping me going with a slow release of
    > energy over 3 to 4 hours. I certainly don't have a fry-up.

    Dried apricots are supposed to be terribly good for avoiding cramp. If only I liked them! Ditto
    bananas. I do get cramp relatively often, and it winds me up a bit. Normally after I get off the
    bike, though.

    > Then I'll have the odd jaffa cake or fig roll

    Ah, the fig roll - truly a prince among biscuits. I have recently persuaded the biscuit fairy to
    start putting them in our ofice biscuit tin :)

    --
    Guy
    ===
    I wonder if you wouldn't mind piecing out our imperfections with your thoughts; and while you're
    about it perhaps you could think when we talk of bicycles, that you see them printing their proud
    wheels i' the receiving earth; thanks awfully.

    http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/09.shtml#103 http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/09.shtml#104
     
  12. In article <[email protected]>, Just zis Guy, you know?
    <[email protected]> writes
    >The Big Baguette wrote:
    >
    >> It'd also be interesting to know what the OP means by two breakfasts? When I'm planning to ride
    >> (which these days means almost every day), at this time of year I eat a bowl of porridge and
    >> maybe a slice or two of bread I bake myself.
    >
    >Remind me to apply next time you want a ride buddy - I'm a sucker for home-baked bread :)

    The stuff I'm eating right now is particularly nice -- a mixture of wholemeal, granary and barley
    flour (all organic, natch) with a free range egg, separated and beaten, and just a touch of thick
    organic honey. Yum yum, piggy's bum. I'm a bread nutter, but it has to be the right bread.
    >
    >> In the summer I have a bowl of unsweetened muesli mixed with fruit juice and yoghurt, with maybe
    >> some dried apricots added. I find these very good at keeping me going with a slow release of
    >> energy over 3 to 4 hours. I certainly don't have a fry-up.
    >
    >Dried apricots are supposed to be terribly good for avoiding cramp. If only I liked them! Ditto
    >bananas. I do get cramp relatively often, and it winds me up a bit. Normally after I get off the
    >bike, though.

    I get cramp, too -- fortunately, I like both bananas and dried apricots. The bananas have to be
    fresh, though -- I can't abide dried banana flakes
    >
    >> Then I'll have the odd jaffa cake or fig roll
    >
    >Ah, the fig roll - truly a prince among biscuits. I have recently persuaded the biscuit fairy to
    >start putting them in our ofice biscuit tin :)

    I never come out of Sainsbury without a packet or two. They have nice low sugar ones now
    --
    The Big Baguette
     
  13. Alex Graham

    Alex Graham Guest

    > Must? For a 40 mile ride at an average of slightly over 20mph, with about 20lb of luggage, I
    > find that one bog-standard muesli bar somewhere between 30 and 35 miles is sufficient to avoid
    > the bonk.

    Presumably thats on a bent

    > The best advice is to listen to your body. If you find that two breakfasts doesn't cut it, eat one
    > breakfast and eat more on the ride. But energy bars every ten minutes? Every ten miles, perhaps.

    Quite

    > I find I don't need to eat significantly on short rides like this anyway. I very rarely eat on
    > the bike, and the only times when I've actually used energy bars have been when trying to
    > complete a century in decent time. 80 miles or more at trundling pace can be achieved without
    > eating on the fly.

    Yes, but 80 miles of flats or 80 miles of fearsome hills?

    -Alex

    --
    ----------------------+ Alex Graham | [email protected] | ----------------------+
     
  14. My running book suggests a pint of sports drink every hour, one or two gel packs, one energy bar or
    any combination. You need liquid as well as carbohydrate intake.

    Re: cramps. Most people probably know that lack of salt (sodium chloride) is a possible cause
    but, I would have thought, rather unlikely given the amount of processed food we eat. Other
    causes are overworked muscles for conditioning, slight muscle strians, dehydration, tight
    hamstrings, too little potassium, calcium and magnesium (often ingested via respective
    chlorides), exposure to temperature extremes, inadequate warm-up, poor blood circulation, tight
    clothing, sudden change in shoes.

    --
    Michael MacClancy
     
  15. Just Zis Guy

    Just Zis Guy Guest

    Michael MacClancy wrote:
    > My running book suggests a pint of sports drink every hour, one or two gel packs, one energy bar
    > or any combination. You need liquid as well as carbohydrate intake.

    Running is more physically demanding than cycling, though. Very few people can run for more than an
    hour, whereas perfectly ordinary people can ride a bike for whole days at a stretch.

    Just my £0.02

    > Re: cramps. Most people probably know that lack of salt (sodium chloride) is a possible cause
    > but, I would have thought, rather unlikely given the amount of processed food we eat. Other
    > causes are overworked muscles for conditioning, slight muscle strians, dehydration, tight
    > hamstrings, too little potassium, calcium and magnesium (often ingested via respective
    > chlorides), exposure to temperature extremes, inadequate warm-up, poor blood circulation, tight
    > clothing, sudden change in shoes.

    I've thought for some time that in my case it's a mineral deficiency - I am fit and strong, I ride
    pretty much every day, and the cramp usually happens towards the end of a ride. I rarely change
    shoes in mid ride :-D

    --
    Guy
    ===
    I wonder if you wouldn't mind piecing out our imperfections with your thoughts; and while you're
    about it perhaps you could think when we talk of bicycles, that you see them printing their proud
    wheels i' the receiving earth; thanks awfully.

    http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/09.shtml#103 http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/09.shtml#104
     
  16. Just zis Guy, you know? wrote:
    > The best advice is to listen to your body.

    I beg to differ on this point. The body is a very unreliable guide. It tends to warn too late and
    then, often, catastrophically (hence: the bonk). In respect to dehydration, 'any one of us can lose
    as much as 4 pints of fluids before getting thirsty'. It takes up to 20 minutes for the fluid to be
    absorbed. Food also needs time to get digested so if you are bonking then the lesson is that you've
    left it too late.

    I'm no dietician, the source of this information is a book for competitive runners but they have the
    same general physiology as cyclists, don't they?
    --
    Michael MacClancy
     
  17. Just Zis Guy

    Just Zis Guy Guest

    Alex Graham wrote:
    >> Must? For a 40 mile ride at an average of slightly over 20mph, with about 20lb of luggage, I
    >> find that one bog-standard muesli bar somewhere between 30 and 35 miles is sufficient to avoid
    >> the bonk.

    > Presumably thats on a bent

    Nope, the wedgie.

    >> I find I don't need to eat significantly on short rides like this anyway. I very rarely eat on
    >> the bike, and the only times when I've actually used energy bars have been when trying to
    >> complete a century in decent time. 80 miles or more at trundling pace can be achieved without
    >> eating on the fly.

    > Yes, but 80 miles of flats or 80 miles of fearsome hills?

    Depends what you mean by "fearsome" - the hills around here are quite tame by comparison with
    Yorkshire, but the rides have been known to take in double-chevron hills. The consensus is that
    hills exist to be ridden up :)

    Watership Down springs to mind, and the hills around Bix and the far side of the Thames
    around Marlow.

    --
    Guy
    ===
    I wonder if you wouldn't mind piecing out our imperfections with your thoughts; and while you're
    about it perhaps you could think when we talk of bicycles, that you see them printing their proud
    wheels i' the receiving earth; thanks awfully.

    http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/09.shtml#103 http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/09.shtml#104
     
  18. Just Zis Guy

    Just Zis Guy Guest

    Michael MacClancy wrote:

    >> The best advice is to listen to your body.

    > I beg to differ on this point. The body is a very unreliable guide. It tends to warn too late

    In this case, though, the OP has sufficient experience to know that the bonk sets in at time
    X, therefore indicating that the current regime is not working right and that more input is
    needed before X.

    > In respect to dehydration, 'any one of us can lose as much as 4 pints of fluids before getting
    > thirsty'. It takes up to 20 minutes for the fluid to be absorbed. Food also needs time to get
    > digested so if you are bonking then the lesson is that you've left it too late.

    Yes - I mean that you should learn from that and plan. But eating every ten minutes as advised
    (demanded, in fact) would be thoroughly excessive, in my experience.

    > I'm no dietician, the source of this information is a book for competitive runners but they have
    > the same general physiology as cyclists, don't they?

    Runners are using energy at a greater rate.

    --
    Guy
    ===
    I wonder if you wouldn't mind piecing out our imperfections with your thoughts; and while you're
    about it perhaps you could think when we talk of bicycles, that you see them printing their proud
    wheels i' the receiving earth; thanks awfully.

    http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/09.shtml#103 http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/09.shtml#104
     
  19. Just zis Guy, you know? wrote:
    > Running is more physically demanding than cycling, though. Very few people can run for more than
    > an hour, whereas perfectly ordinary people can ride a bike for whole days at a stretch.
    >
    > Just my £0.02

    General agreement, but you have to compare like with like. Running a race is more demanding than the
    way most people (regular tourists included) ride a bike but slow training runs probably aren't that
    much different.

    You'd be surprised how many people can run for more than an hour. 2000 ran the Wokingham Half
    Marathon on Feb. 9th (me included) and probably getting on for half of them will have taken 1:50
    or longer.
    --
    Michael MacClancy
     
  20. Just Zis Guy

    Just Zis Guy Guest

    Michael MacClancy wrote:

    > You'd be surprised how many people can run for more than an hour. 2000 ran the Wokingham Half
    > Marathon on Feb. 9th (me included) and probably getting on for half of them will have taken 1:50
    > or longer.

    Oh, no dispute - but I regularly ride for six or more hours in a day, and so do many others. A
    marathon requires a load of training, a day ride of several hours duration doesn't.

    --
    Guy
    ===
    I wonder if you wouldn't mind piecing out our imperfections with your thoughts; and while you're
    about it perhaps you could think when we talk of bicycles, that you see them printing their proud
    wheels i' the receiving earth; thanks awfully.

    http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/09.shtml#103 http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/09.shtml#104
     
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