the cool thing about the Vuelta

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by Kurgan Gringion, Sep 19, 2003.

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  1. Is it has crosswinds that make for GC shakeups on flat stages.

    Was it '96 that Rominger got eliminated from contention on the 2nd day on a flat stage? I think it
    was ONCE and Banesto that went to the front just a few k into the stage and shattered the peloton.

    Today Frigo gets the treatment from ONCE and USPS. I'll guess that Saiz and Bruyneel may have been
    on the phone to each other (Bruyneel rode for Saiz @ ONCE).

    Too bad the TdF doesn't have such drama (well, there was the Passage du Gois) on flat stages.

    I'll guess the prevailing winds and terrain in Spain allow for this.
     
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  2. Howard Kveck

    Howard Kveck Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, "Kurgan Gringioni"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Is it has crosswinds that make for GC shakeups on flat stages.
    >
    > Was it '96 that Rominger got eliminated from contention on the 2nd day on a flat stage? I think it
    > was ONCE and Banesto that went to the front just a few k into the stage and shattered the peloton.

    Third stage and he lost 7:23 (and the race). Coincidentally, it was from Cuenca to Albacete -
    same as today.

    >
    > Today Frigo gets the treatment from ONCE and USPS. I'll guess that Saiz and Bruyneel may have been
    > on the phone to each other (Bruyneel rode for Saiz @ ONCE).

    That would be interesting, because last year those two were decidedly not seeing eye to eye. But
    that was then, this is now. Today could have been an alliance of convenience.

    >
    > Too bad the TdF doesn't have such drama (well, there was the Passage du Gois) on flat stages.
    >
    >
    > I'll guess the prevailing winds and terrain in Spain allow for this.

    --
    tanx, Howard

    "Head of a cat, body of a monkey, Here comes a plague upon the land." The Billy Nayer Show

    remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?
     
  3. "Howard Kveck" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > In article <[email protected]>, "Kurgan Gringioni"
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > > Is it has crosswinds that make for GC shakeups on flat stages.
    > >
    > > Was it '96 that Rominger got eliminated from contention on the 2nd day on
    a
    > > flat stage? I think it was ONCE and Banesto that went to the front just a
    few
    > > k into the stage and shattered the peloton.
    >
    > Third stage and he lost 7:23 (and the race). Coincidentally, it was from Cuenca to Albacete -
    > same as today.

    Good trivia, thanks. Ferretti's gotta be kicking himself for not having his team do the right thing
    for Frigo (even if Petacchi did win).

    > > Today Frigo gets the treatment from ONCE and USPS. I'll guess that Saiz
    and
    > > Bruyneel may have been on the phone to each other (Bruyneel rode for Saiz
    @
    > > ONCE).
    >
    > That would be interesting, because last year those two were decidedly
    not
    > seeing eye to eye. But that was then, this is now. Today could have been an alliance of
    > convenience.

    I believe that Bruyneel was riding for Saiz in '96 right? There probably not much a director does
    better than guiding his team to a strategem he's executed himself as a rider. I wonder who
    approached whom or if the colloboration was spontaneous.
     
  4. Nev Shea

    Nev Shea Guest

    "Kurgan Gringioni" <[email protected]> wrote in
    news:[email protected]:

    > I believe that Bruyneel was riding for Saiz in '96 right? There probably not much a director does
    > better than guiding his team to a strategem he's executed himself as a rider. I wonder who
    > approached whom or if the colloboration was spontaneous.

    From: http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/?id=2003/sep03/sep19news2

    "As it has been in recent editions of the Vuelta, US Postal Service was ready for the wind and took
    advantage of the poor position of other teams' leaders by forcing the pace when the field began to
    split. Directeur sportif Johan Bruyneel, a shrewd tactician, was proud of his team by day's end.

    "He made an unforgivable mistake," Belda said of Valverde in Spanish paper AS. "Quite simply, he
    wasn't where he needed to be. Every year the crosswinds come in the same place, and the riders
    were perfectly aware of this. Four years ago the same thing happened to us with Roberto Heras. We
    never learn." "

    I've seen Postal do this before as has Saiz, so my guess is that the ONCE guys were expecting
    it, and once they found all each other in the front group they collaborated to put it to Frigo
    and Gonzalez.

    NS
     
  5. Jeff Jones

    Jeff Jones Guest

    "Nev Shea" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...

    >
    > I've seen Postal do this before as has Saiz, so my guess is that the ONCE guys were expecting it,
    > and once they found all each other in the front group they collaborated to put it to Frigo and
    > Gonzalez.
    >
    They basically annihilated Frigo and Gonzalez yesterday - they certainly weren't too flash in
    the TT today.

    Jeff
     
  6. Howard Kveck

    Howard Kveck Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, "Kurgan Gringioni"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Ferretti's gotta be kicking himself for not having his team do the right thing for Frigo (even if
    > Petacchi did win).

    One way to look at this: realistically, Frigo and Gonzalez had already lost too much time to
    finish on the podium (let alone win) without a miracle, considering how they've been riding.
    Ferretti probably figured sending guys back to try to drag them to the front group was going to
    be fruitless (on a windy day like that, it usually is). So he may have decided to go for
    something with a higher chance of success, namely stage wins. And the guy who stood the best
    chance of getting that done was already in the front group.
    --
    tanx, Howard

    "Gentlemen! You can't fight in here! This is the War Room." George C. Scott, Dr. Strangelove

    remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?
     
  7. Davide Tosi

    Davide Tosi Guest

    "Kurgan Gringioni" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Good trivia, thanks. Ferretti's gotta be kicking himself for not having his team do the right thing
    >for Frigo (even if Petacchi did win).

    Notoriously, Ferretti is not that much interested in general classments. What happened during the
    last couple of days at the Vuelta will only convince him even more that aiming at single day goals
    takes less effort and better probabilities of a good result.
     
  8. Jeff Jones

    Jeff Jones Guest

    "Howard Kveck" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > In article <[email protected]>, "Kurgan Gringioni"
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >
    > > Ferretti's gotta be kicking himself for not having his team do the right thing for Frigo (even
    > > if Petacchi did win).
    >
    > One way to look at this: realistically, Frigo and Gonzalez had already
    lost
    > too much time to finish on the podium (let alone win) without a miracle, considering how they've
    > been riding. Ferretti probably figured sending
    guys back
    > to try to drag them to the front group was going to be fruitless (on a
    windy day
    > like that, it usually is). So he may have decided to go for something with
    a
    > higher chance of success, namely stage wins. And the guy who stood the
    best
    > chance of getting that done was already in the front group.

    Ferretti didn't have much choice in the matter, as Petacchi was the *only* Fassa Bortolo rider ahead
    of Aitor and Frigo. All the rest were dropped, and it would have been a waste of time (and a stage
    win) for Petacchi to drop back to the second group to try and help the other two bridge up.

    Jeff
     
  9. "Howard Kveck" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > In article <[email protected]>, "Kurgan Gringioni"
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >
    > > Ferretti's gotta be kicking himself for not having his team do the right thing for Frigo (even
    > > if Petacchi did win).
    >
    > One way to look at this: realistically, Frigo and Gonzalez had already
    lost
    > too much time to finish on the podium (let alone win) without a miracle, considering how they've
    > been riding. Ferretti probably figured sending guys
    back
    > to try to drag them to the front group was going to be fruitless (on a
    windy day
    > like that, it usually is). So he may have decided to go for something with
    a
    > higher chance of success, namely stage wins. And the guy who stood the best chance of getting that
    > done was already in the front group.

    Ferretti's mistake was not having his team prepared for the crosswinds (using the workers to get the
    GC guys into the front echelon when the hammer dropped).

    As Jeff has pointed out, no FBs were in the front group save Petacchi. They were unprepared.
     
  10. "Davide Tosi" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > "Kurgan Gringioni" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > >Good trivia, thanks. Ferretti's gotta be kicking himself for not having
    his
    > >team do the right thing for Frigo (even if Petacchi did win).
    >
    > Notoriously, Ferretti is not that much interested in general classments. What happened during the
    > last couple of days at the Vuelta will only convince him even more that aiming at single day goals
    > takes less effort and better probabilities of a good result.

    Petacchi was the only rider in the front echelon from FB.

    Having the team prepared for the crosswinds would have put more than 1 rider in the front echelon
    and increased Petacchi's odds even more. FB is lucky that Petacchi was paying attention, otherwise
    they would have been seen as the day's big loser.
     
  11. Howard Kveck

    Howard Kveck Guest

    In article <[email protected]news1.news.adelphia.net>, "Kurgan Gringioni"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    > "Howard Kveck" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > In article <[email protected]>, "Kurgan Gringioni"
    > > <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >
    > >
    > > > Ferretti's gotta be kicking himself for not having his team do the right thing for Frigo (even
    > > > if Petacchi did win).
    > >
    > > One way to look at this: realistically, Frigo and Gonzalez had already
    > lost
    > > too much time to finish on the podium (let alone win) without a miracle, considering how they've
    > > been riding. Ferretti probably figured sending guys
    > back
    > > to try to drag them to the front group was going to be fruitless (on a
    > windy day
    > > like that, it usually is). So he may have decided to go for something with
    > a
    > > higher chance of success, namely stage wins. And the guy who stood the best chance of getting
    > > that done was already in the front group.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Ferretti's mistake was not having his team prepared for the crosswinds (using the workers to get
    > the GC guys into the front echelon when the hammer dropped).

    Until Jeff mentioned that, I wasn't aware they were distributed in the peloton like that. Kudos
    to Petacchi for having the foresight (or luck) to be up front. Granted, not -everyone- can
    actually be at the front of the bunch - it's physically impossible.

    > As Jeff has pointed out, no FBs were in the front group save Petacchi. They were unprepared.

    Fassa screwed the pooch and paid for it.
    --
    tanx, Howard

    "Gentlemen! You can't fight in here! This is the War Room." George C. Scott, Dr. Strangelove

    remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?
     
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