The Dancing Chain, by Frank Berto



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Just received notice that "The Dancing Chain" by Frank Berto will be
shipping around 2/5/2005 to people who have ordered it through
Amazon.com

For those who have not yet ordered a copy of this fine history of the
derailleur, it is available through the following link:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1892495414/ref=ase_veluninc/

The current Amazon pre-order price is $32.97, which is a savings of 34%
off the list price of $49.95.

--
Steven L. Sheffield
stevens at veloworks dot com
veloworks at worldnet dot ay tea tee dot net
bellum pax est libertas servitus est ignoratio vis est
ess ay ell tea ell ay kay ee sea aye tee why you ti ay aitch
aitch tee tea pea colon [for word] slash [four ward] slash double-you
double-yew double-ewe dot veloworks dot com [four word] slash
 
Excellent book. The price has gone up from the first edition.


<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Just received notice that "The Dancing Chain" by Frank Berto will be
> shipping around 2/5/2005 to people who have ordered it through
> Amazon.com
>
> For those who have not yet ordered a copy of this fine history of the
> derailleur, it is available through the following link:
>
> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1892495414/ref=ase_veluninc/
>
> The current Amazon pre-order price is $32.97, which is a savings of 34%
> off the list price of $49.95.
>
> --
> Steven L. Sheffield
> stevens at veloworks dot com
> veloworks at worldnet dot ay tea tee dot net
> bellum pax est libertas servitus est ignoratio vis est
> ess ay ell tea ell ay kay ee sea aye tee why you ti ay aitch
> aitch tee tea pea colon [for word] slash [four ward] slash double-you
> double-yew double-ewe dot veloworks dot com [four word] slash
>
 
"[email protected]" wrote:
>
> Just received notice that "The Dancing Chain" by Frank Berto will be
> shipping around 2/5/2005 to people who have ordered it through
> Amazon.com
>
> For those who have not yet ordered a copy of this fine history of the
> derailleur, it is available through the following link:
>
> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1892495414/ref=ase_veluninc/
>
> The current Amazon pre-order price is $32.97, which is a savings of 34%
> off the list price of $49.95.


I have that book; I rate it excellent. It is really one-of-a-kind if you're
into that sort of thing. I don't know why Berto is the only listed author,
there are three.
 
"B. Lafferty" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Excellent book. The price has gone up from the first edition.
>
>
I read somewhere that this is a substantial rewrite, with Berto being
the sole author. In my opinion, that's probably a good thing, since
the major flaw with the first edition was that its parts didn't hang
together as well as they might.
 
"Gary Young" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "B. Lafferty" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>...
>> Excellent book. The price has gone up from the first edition.
>>
>>
> I read somewhere that this is a substantial rewrite, with Berto being
> the sole author. In my opinion, that's probably a good thing, since
> the major flaw with the first edition was that its parts didn't hang
> together as well as they might.

The first edition was essentially self-published. Is that still the case?
 
"B. Lafferty" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Excellent book. The price has gone up from the first edition.
>

it's too bad, this guy made a career writing articles about crossover
vs. alpine gearing and plotting logarithmic gearcharts, stuff that
seems so quaint now, but no one cares about.
 
"Amit" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "B. Lafferty" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>...
>> Excellent book. The price has gone up from the first edition.
>>
>
> it's too bad, this guy made a career writing articles about crossover
> vs. alpine gearing and plotting logarithmic gearcharts, stuff that
> seems so quaint now, but no one cares about.

He made a career that he enjoyed for years. That's more than can be said
for most people. And his book is really an excellent way to end the career,
even though it isn't a tome on alpine gearing.
 
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>Just received notice that "The Dancing Chain" by Frank Berto will be
>>shipping around 2/5/2005 to people who have ordered it through
>>Amazon.com
>>For those who have not yet ordered a copy of this fine history of the
>>derailleur, it is available through the following link:
>>http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1892495414/ref=ase_veluninc/
>>The current Amazon pre-order price is $32.97, which is a savings of 34%
>>off the list price of $49.95.

B. Lafferty wrote:
> Excellent book. The price has gone up from the first edition.

As with so many things, I bought mine at an independent
bookstore, from the owner herself, and paid cover price.
One small step to keeping real bookstores available to me.

IMHO Frank's book, while pricey, is a good read.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
 
Gary Young wrote:

> "B. Lafferty" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
>
>>Excellent book. The price has gone up from the first edition.
>>
>>
>
> I read somewhere that this is a substantial rewrite, with Berto being
> the sole author. In my opinion, that's probably a good thing, since
> the major flaw with the first edition was that its parts didn't hang
> together as well as they might.

I agree. The first edition was very interesting, if you're really into
bike history and technical details. But it badly needed an editor's
strong hand.

--
--------------------+
Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove rodent and vegetable dot com,
replace with cc.ysu dot edu]
 
Amit wrote:

> "B. Lafferty" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
>
>>Excellent book. The price has gone up from the first edition.
>>
>
>
> it's too bad, this guy made a career writing articles about crossover
> vs. alpine gearing and plotting logarithmic gearcharts,

To be more accurate, he made that his hobby or avocation. He had a
career as an engineer.


stuff that
> seems so quaint now, but no one cares about.

When he did it, many people cared a lot, and learned a lot from him.
Most people aren't nearly as successful or valued.

Now he's found something else interesting to write about. I think he's
doing very well!

--
--------------------+
Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove rodent and vegetable dot com,
replace with cc.ysu dot edu]
 
[email protected] (Amit) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> "B. Lafferty" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> > Excellent book. The price has gone up from the first edition.
> >
>
> it's too bad, this guy made a career writing articles about crossover
> vs. alpine gearing and plotting logarithmic gearcharts, stuff that
> seems so quaint now, but no one cares about.

Back then we didn't have 8+ speeds. Half step plus granny worked very
well if you know what you were doing & used log log paper. I'd use log
log paper to day to know where my cross over redundant gears are, if I
could find the graph paper. Any suggestions on where to find it would
be deeply appreciated. John
 
On 3 Dec 2004 21:41:49 -0800, John McGraw <[email protected]> wrote:

> [email protected] (Amit) wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>...
>> "B. Lafferty" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:<[email protected]>...
>> > Excellent book. The price has gone up from the first edition.
>> >
>>
>> it's too bad, this guy made a career writing articles about crossover
>> vs. alpine gearing and plotting logarithmic gearcharts, stuff that
>> seems so quaint now, but no one cares about.
>
> Back then we didn't have 8+ speeds. Half step plus granny worked very
> well if you know what you were doing & used log log paper. I'd use log
> log paper to day to know where my cross over redundant gears are, if I
> could find the graph paper. Any suggestions on where to find it would
> be deeply appreciated. John

I miss it too so I would be in on the "If you ding it deal". It might
be possible to print some but then you might have to write a program
to generate the proper lines.


--
Bill (?) Baka
 
g-spot <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> "[email protected]" wrote:
> >
> > Just received notice that "The Dancing Chain" by Frank Berto will be
> > shipping around 2/5/2005 to people who have ordered it through
> > Amazon.com
> >
> > For those who have not yet ordered a copy of this fine history of the
> > derailleur, it is available through the following link:
> >
> > http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1892495414/ref=ase_veluninc/
> >
> > The current Amazon pre-order price is $32.97, which is a savings of 34%
> > off the list price of $49.95.
>
>
> I have that book; I rate it excellent. It is really one-of-a-kind if you're
> into that sort of thing. I don't know why Berto is the only listed author,
> there are three.

The ironic thing is that he lives in Marin & his wife is an avid horse
person & rabidly anti Mt. Bike, but I still appreciate & thank him for
his research in the '80s. He actually had a small lab / shop where he
ran drive trains & evaluated their performance. Shimango stole the
"slant parallelogram" (IIRC) from Sun Tour (What's new?) & refined it.
At the time slant, parallelogram, sounded like just more industry
hype. He was the first person I'm aware of who said that this system
is actually vastly superior. At that time when Shimango was just
coming out w/ indexed, I think Berto knew about as much as Shimano
about the dynamics of chains, teeth, & derailers, perhaps more. Berto
or some wise sole says that if not for the slant parallelogram, we
probably would not have indexed shifting today. And I don't want to
hear a bunch of retro grouch ****, I've ridden for far more years w/
friction than indexed, & I'll take indexed anyday, Thank You Very
Much!
John
 
John McGraw wrote:

> ...
> Back then we didn't have 8+ speeds. Half step plus granny worked very
> well if you know what you were doing & used log log paper. I'd use log
> log paper to day to know where my cross over redundant gears are, if I
> could find the graph paper. Any suggestions on where to find it would
> be deeply appreciated.

In previous years, most college bookstores would have had log-log paper
and semi-log - log paper, etc. (I probably still have some leftover
sheets of it around.)

Most spreadsheet programs can produce log-log graphs.

--
Tom Sherman - Rock Island County Illinois
Tetrahedral carbon lattices are not forever.
 
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] (John McGraw) wrote:

> And I don't want to hear a bunch of retro grouch ****, I've ridden for far
> more years w/ friction than indexed, & I'll take indexed anyday, Thank You
> Very Much!
> John

It's not that hard to keep an index set-up tuned so it shifts properly.
I know a couple of people who have actually said that using friction
shifting proves they are better riders. Yeah, whatever...

--
tanx,
Howard

"You ain't having fun until you're dialing 911"
Atomic 7

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?
 
On 2004-12-04, John McGraw <[email protected]> wrote:

> Back then we didn't have 8+ speeds. Half step plus granny worked very
> well if you know what you were doing & used log log paper. I'd use log
> log paper to day to know where my cross over redundant gears are, if I
> could find the graph paper. Any suggestions on where to find it would
> be deeply appreciated. John

Google is your friend. "pdf logarithmic graph paper" will give you
several sources of downloadable log paper.

Cheers,
Pann
--
geek by nature, Linux by choice L I N U X .~.
The Choice /V\
http://www.ourmanpann.com/linux/ of a GNU /( )\
Generation ^^-^^
 
In article <[email protected]>,
g-spot <[email protected]> wrote:

>"[email protected]" wrote:
>>
>> Just received notice that "The Dancing Chain" by Frank Berto will be
>> shipping around 2/5/2005 to people who have ordered it through
>> Amazon.com
snip
>I have that book; I rate it excellent. It is really one-of-a-kind if you're
>into that sort of thing. I don't know why Berto is the only listed author,
>there are three.

There is also an earlier book by Frank Berto, "Bicycling Magazine's
complete guide to upgrading your bike" (Rodale Press, 1988). I found
this extremely useful for increasing my understanding of how bicycle
components function. Example: Why the difference in size between largest
and middle chainwheel is crucial for shifting a triple from the smallest
to the middle chainwheel (because if the difference is too great, the
derailleur will sit too far above the middle chainwheel).
The concrete recommendations are of course now out of date.

--
Ned Mantei
Department of Cell Biology, Swiss Federal Institute of Technology
CH-8093 Zurich, Switzerland
------------ And now a word from our sponsor ---------------------
For a secure high performance FTP using SSL/TLS encryption
upgrade to SurgeFTP
---- See http://netwinsite.com/sponsor/sponsor_surgeftp.htm ----
 
A Muzi wrote:

>> <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...

>>> Just received notice that "The Dancing Chain" by Frank Berto will
>>> be shipping around 2/5/2005 to people who have ordered it through
>>> Amazon.com
>>> For those who have not yet ordered a copy of this fine history of
>>> the derailleur, it is available through the following link:
>>> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1892495414/ref=ase_veluninc/
>>> The current Amazon pre-order price is $32.97, which is a savings of
>>> 34% off the list price of $49.95.
>
> B. Lafferty wrote:
>> Excellent book. The price has gone up from the first edition.
>
> As with so many things, I bought mine at an independent
> bookstore, from the owner herself, and paid cover price.
> One small step to keeping real bookstores available to me.

They wouldn't have it at B&N anyway -- you'd have to order it there, and pay
full price. Probably the same with Amazon. Only the mass-market stuff is
discounted.

> IMHO Frank's book, while pricey, is a good read.

There aren't too many good cycling books, but this is one of them, if you're
interested in technology.

What other cycling books do people like? 'Tis the season, after all...

Matt O.
 
Bill Baka wrote:

> On 3 Dec 2004 21:41:49 -0800, John McGraw <[email protected]>
> wrote:

>> I'd use
>> log log paper to day to know where my cross over redundant gears
>> are, if I could find the graph paper. Any suggestions on where to
>> find it would be deeply appreciated. John

> I miss it too so I would be in on the "If you ding it deal". It might
> be possible to print some but then you might have to write a program
> to generate the proper lines.

You can usually still find it in university book stores, at engineering schools.
ISTR seeing it in the old VA Tech bookstore. I'm going down there shortly,
maybe I'll have a look and report back.

I know I have some, somewhere as well. I just threw out all my extra computer
punch cards from my first year of college! I've saved all kinds of graph paper
over the years, because I knew it would come in handy, and not always be
available.

Matt O.
 
On 12/04/2004 07:39 AM, in article [email protected], "Matt
O'Toole" <[email protected]> wrote:

> A Muzi wrote:
>
>>> <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>
>>>> Just received notice that "The Dancing Chain" by Frank Berto will
>>>> be shipping around 2/5/2005 to people who have ordered it through
>>>> Amazon.com
>>>> For those who have not yet ordered a copy of this fine history of
>>>> the derailleur, it is available through the following link:
>>>> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1892495414/ref=ase_veluninc/
>>>> The current Amazon pre-order price is $32.97, which is a savings of
>>>> 34% off the list price of $49.95.
>>
>> B. Lafferty wrote:
>>> Excellent book. The price has gone up from the first edition.
>>
>> As with so many things, I bought mine at an independent
>> bookstore, from the owner herself, and paid cover price.
>> One small step to keeping real bookstores available to me.
>
> They wouldn't have it at B&N anyway -- you'd have to order it there, and pay
> full price. Probably the same with Amazon. Only the mass-market stuff is
> discounted.


Pre-order from Amazon is $32.97, 34% off listed price.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1892495414/ref=ase_veluninc/



>> IMHO Frank's book, while pricey, is a good read.
>
> There aren't too many good cycling books, but this is one of them, if you're
> interested in technology.
>
> What other cycling books do people like? 'Tis the season, after all...


http://www.3dmarketplace.com/velokatz/


--
Steven L. Sheffield
stevens at veloworks dot com
veloworks at worldnet dot ay tea tee dot net
bellum pax est libertas servitus est ignoratio vis est
ess ay ell tea ell ay kay ee sea eye tee why you ti ay aitch
aitch tee tea pea colon [for word] slash [four ward] slash double-you
double-yew double-ewe dot veloworks dot com [foreword] slash
 
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