T
TC
Guest
jt wrote:
> On 7 Jan 2006 06:37:39 -0800, "Rob" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >>Please remind us, other than B12, what essential nutrients can't we can
> >>from veggies and fruit? The last time you came up with a list I think JT
> >>pointed to plants that had them and that assumed the list you provided
> >>were essential at all. I noticed you never replied after that. Put your
> >>head back in the sand?
> >>
> >
> >I believe TC said, in his post above, that plant food sources failed to
> >provide these nutrients in "OPTIMUM" amounts,
>
> Is that the new spin, I wonder what he considers optimum. Only
> confirms his ignorance in what a vegan can be.
That has always been my "spin". I consider optimum the range of amounts
(min and max) needed by the body for the *best* health. Both in terms
of individual nutrients and combinations of nutrients.
It is not enough to get *some* of the essential nutrients, but you must
get at least the minimum the body *needs* and preferably not more than
what the body can manage. And those needs will flunctuate with certain
variables like the amount of stress on us, physical and mental,
sickness and injuries, etc. It will also change with the sex of the
person, the age, pregnancy, etc.
>
> >not that these nutrients weren't available, at all. I would, therefore, agree with his
> >statement. Animal sources *do* provide optimum quantities of things
> >such as taurine, iron, zinc, vitamin A, B12, etc, etc ...
>
> Without careful planning most "Americans" will far exceed the
> "optimum" quantities of these nutrients.
You mean "with careful planning", right? But I submit that most people
who are stupid enough to buy into vegetarianism inherently are too
stupid to know how to do this with no animal sourced foods in the diet.
And if you are refferring to the govt RDAs, then you are truly a fool.
They keep those RDAs so ridiclulously low that it is a joke. The lower
theu keep them the more the food industry can pretend to actually
produce nutritionally adequate foods.
>
> >
> >They also provide these nutrients in a form that is best absorbed by
> >humans, which is very important.
>
> More generalizations not based in reality
Actually not. One example is the new genetically engineered "golden"
rice that contains a type of vitamin A and which is supposed to be a
food breakthrough that will save millions of lives in developing
countries. Except that the amounts in it are ridiculously low and is
biologically unavailable to us. Our bodies can't use it regardless as
to how much we eat. The rice contains it, but it does us no good.
Many plants contain small amounts of some nutrients that we can't use.
Animal source foods contains a lot of nutrients, in large amounts and
in forms that our bodies can easily use.
>
> > Vegetarian diets, in particular vegan diets, require careful planning, much more so than do omnivorous ones.
> >
> Based on how rampant obesity and being overweight has become in
> society. I would dare to say most of who are not on a vegan diet
> would seem to indicate that they might need to do a little more
> careful planning as well. Their problem is not not with deficiency
> but with excess which is the theme with most degenerative diseases.
>
> I would say the complications from eating a typical western diet such
> diabetes, heart disease etc seem to be far more prevelant and serious
> than the complications of eating a vegan diet.
The complications and chronic diseases caused by the western diet are
caused largely by a huge increase in consumption of refined
carbohydrates and processed and fake foods. HFCS, sugar, refined white
flour, soda, pasta, cake, candy, hydrogenated vegetable fats which
contain elevated amounts trans fats, margarine and shortening, soy
products, especially genetically engineered soy, etc. All plant based
foods, btw.
Good healthy fats and proteins from good healthy animals is not only
good but very, very healthy. I've been eating copious amounts of animal
proteins and fats for over 5 years now and my health has never been
better. I eat beef, pork, chicken, butter, whole milk, bacon, cheese,
etc every single day and I have never been healthier or thinner.
Haven't had a cold in 5 years. My family went from dozens of
prescriptions per year to NONE. No more irritable bowel, my allergies
are greatly diminished. My back problems are completely gone. That is
what happens when you get optimum amounts of animal sourced collagen in
your diet. Joint and connective tissue problems heal and go away. No
more anxiety. Nutrient deficiency leads to anxiety and depression.
I could go on, but you get the idea. We started eating better and more
animal sourced foods and my health and, more importantly, the health of
my family, improved drastically.
No vegetarian can claim and prove that they are in optimal health. It
is an impossibility.
TC
> On 7 Jan 2006 06:37:39 -0800, "Rob" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >>Please remind us, other than B12, what essential nutrients can't we can
> >>from veggies and fruit? The last time you came up with a list I think JT
> >>pointed to plants that had them and that assumed the list you provided
> >>were essential at all. I noticed you never replied after that. Put your
> >>head back in the sand?
> >>
> >
> >I believe TC said, in his post above, that plant food sources failed to
> >provide these nutrients in "OPTIMUM" amounts,
>
> Is that the new spin, I wonder what he considers optimum. Only
> confirms his ignorance in what a vegan can be.
That has always been my "spin". I consider optimum the range of amounts
(min and max) needed by the body for the *best* health. Both in terms
of individual nutrients and combinations of nutrients.
It is not enough to get *some* of the essential nutrients, but you must
get at least the minimum the body *needs* and preferably not more than
what the body can manage. And those needs will flunctuate with certain
variables like the amount of stress on us, physical and mental,
sickness and injuries, etc. It will also change with the sex of the
person, the age, pregnancy, etc.
>
> >not that these nutrients weren't available, at all. I would, therefore, agree with his
> >statement. Animal sources *do* provide optimum quantities of things
> >such as taurine, iron, zinc, vitamin A, B12, etc, etc ...
>
> Without careful planning most "Americans" will far exceed the
> "optimum" quantities of these nutrients.
You mean "with careful planning", right? But I submit that most people
who are stupid enough to buy into vegetarianism inherently are too
stupid to know how to do this with no animal sourced foods in the diet.
And if you are refferring to the govt RDAs, then you are truly a fool.
They keep those RDAs so ridiclulously low that it is a joke. The lower
theu keep them the more the food industry can pretend to actually
produce nutritionally adequate foods.
>
> >
> >They also provide these nutrients in a form that is best absorbed by
> >humans, which is very important.
>
> More generalizations not based in reality
Actually not. One example is the new genetically engineered "golden"
rice that contains a type of vitamin A and which is supposed to be a
food breakthrough that will save millions of lives in developing
countries. Except that the amounts in it are ridiculously low and is
biologically unavailable to us. Our bodies can't use it regardless as
to how much we eat. The rice contains it, but it does us no good.
Many plants contain small amounts of some nutrients that we can't use.
Animal source foods contains a lot of nutrients, in large amounts and
in forms that our bodies can easily use.
>
> > Vegetarian diets, in particular vegan diets, require careful planning, much more so than do omnivorous ones.
> >
> Based on how rampant obesity and being overweight has become in
> society. I would dare to say most of who are not on a vegan diet
> would seem to indicate that they might need to do a little more
> careful planning as well. Their problem is not not with deficiency
> but with excess which is the theme with most degenerative diseases.
>
> I would say the complications from eating a typical western diet such
> diabetes, heart disease etc seem to be far more prevelant and serious
> than the complications of eating a vegan diet.
The complications and chronic diseases caused by the western diet are
caused largely by a huge increase in consumption of refined
carbohydrates and processed and fake foods. HFCS, sugar, refined white
flour, soda, pasta, cake, candy, hydrogenated vegetable fats which
contain elevated amounts trans fats, margarine and shortening, soy
products, especially genetically engineered soy, etc. All plant based
foods, btw.
Good healthy fats and proteins from good healthy animals is not only
good but very, very healthy. I've been eating copious amounts of animal
proteins and fats for over 5 years now and my health has never been
better. I eat beef, pork, chicken, butter, whole milk, bacon, cheese,
etc every single day and I have never been healthier or thinner.
Haven't had a cold in 5 years. My family went from dozens of
prescriptions per year to NONE. No more irritable bowel, my allergies
are greatly diminished. My back problems are completely gone. That is
what happens when you get optimum amounts of animal sourced collagen in
your diet. Joint and connective tissue problems heal and go away. No
more anxiety. Nutrient deficiency leads to anxiety and depression.
I could go on, but you get the idea. We started eating better and more
animal sourced foods and my health and, more importantly, the health of
my family, improved drastically.
No vegetarian can claim and prove that they are in optimal health. It
is an impossibility.
TC