The Dilemma

[Mojo Johnson]

Okay guys and gals - I'm sure many of you may have found yourself in a similar position before and I am having a hard time dealing with it. So I am coming to the forum for some advice and perhaps justification for my apathy syndrome.

Here's the situation:

I have a 2008 Specialized Allez Elite that I have been riding tons over the last couple of years and really enjoying. Lately I've been riding in very fast group rides with local racers trying to hone my chops to race next season. I get dropped a lot. Especially on hills. Obviously, I know I need to get stronger, as I cannot really lose any more weight (5'7" 132 lbs). However, I feel like I need a lighter steed to keep up with these boys. They're all cruising on sub 17 lb carbon while I am slugging away on a 24 + lb aluminum tank.

My idea:

1.) Purchase a nice light wheelset now to cut a good 2 + lbs off my 3200g stock wheels (Jalco Dynamics 270). I am looking at Mavic Ksyrium Elites for about $500.

2.) A year from now purchase a Carbon bike and put the Mavic (or whatever I end up with) wheels on the new bike and start off with an upgraded entry-level race bike that I can use for a few years and justifiably upgrade down the road.

Now I have read and heard many opinions that making such an investment in a half-way decent wheelset for a low-end bike is frivolous, but I also see that doing so can shave off a considerable amount of weight and add other performance benefits that can help me enjoy my bike more for the next year or so.

I am about to pull the trigger on this. Am I living in a dream world and setting myself up for disappointment, or does anyone see the logic in this investment? Have any of you upgraded your wheelset and realized the benefits of it in the past?

Thanks!

 

[daveryanwyoming]

Yeah, those Jalco 270s are pigs. I'd invest in a decent wheelset that you'll always have when you upgrade bikes. Realistically there's nothing wrong with your Allez, it's a decent bike and not all that heavy once you get rid of the 7 pound wheelset.

I personally wouldn't buy the Ksyriums but would either go with something like these: http://www.performancebike.com/bikes/Product_10052_10551_1034339_-1_1582500_20000_400222

or these: http://www.cswestbikes.com/servlet/the-25633/Stans-ZTR-Alpha-340/Detail

or these: http://www.modernbike.com/itemgroup.asp?igpk=2126180893&TID=367


or better yet something reasonably light and aerodynamic like these: http://brandscycle.com/product/rolf-prima-vigor-700c-black-wheelset-15899.htm

I'd look at good used or new old stock offerings on Craigslist or ebay as well. Tony Z. posted some nice ebay links to uber light clinchers sold new from pacific rim vendors a while back. I don't remember the exact names but a bit of ebay searching should turn up some good options.

Any of those options will pull two to three pounds off of your bike. But realistically that's still only two or three percent of the total weight you're dragging up the hill when you include yourself, water, patch kit, etc. So it should help but you're still talking about ten or fifteen seconds faster on a steep ten minute climb not minutes faster. Even a full carbon sub 16 pound ride will only shave off perhaps 30 seconds on a ten minute climb so don't expect miracles from bike weight alone and keep focusing on training and cagey riding so that you can arrive as fresh as possible at the bottom of the big climbs as that will make the biggest difference.

-Dave

 

[danfoz]

Dave mentioned some good wheels - Though some of the other wheels are lighter (and more aero), I would also recommend the Elites just because I rode them for a season and loved them, they are a lovely stiff wheel that feel snappy in a sprint and that I abused completely on NYC's roughest roads and never had an issue with them going out of true or breaking spokes. Just make sure to go with the 2010's that weigh 1550 grms. Competive Cyclist had them on sale a short while back for less than $400. The 2009's weigh closer to 1750 and are now labeled as the Aksiums. At the higher price points I would probably go with one of the other wheel sets.

Another good wheel is the HED Ardennes and although I have no experience with them are apparently very nice. They use the toroidal shape dual patented by HED and Zipp a few years ago so they have measurable aero benefit over the mavics (HED uses the elites on their website comparison) but also being a wider rim supposedly offer a nicer ride and according to the engineers at Continental (not HED), all things being equal, have 18% reduction in rolling resistance over their 19mm counterparts.

On the upside, once you upgrade the wheels you'll know the only thing left is hard work. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/biggrin.gif

 

[Mojo Johnson]

Thanks for thr replies, guys. The wheels I was looking at are labelled 2009 at Nashbar but they do specify that they're 1550g for pair.

I have also been eyeing the Vuelta Corsa Lites. I know they aren't as prestigious but the price is right and they have been getting some great reviews. For someone on a budget who is ultimately intending on upgrading the entire ride within 365 days, those wheels look enticing.

Any thoughts on Vuelta? (I am not concerned about being too heavy for them)

 

[daveryanwyoming]

I haven't ridden the Vueltas, but they look decent. I'd certainly give them a try and the price is right.

In that price/weight/aero depth range you might also look at the Performance Forte Apollos or Forte Titan wheelsets. I've ridden both (actually have the Titans on both my winter bike and as my cyclocross training clinchers) and they're very affordable and well built wheels that'll cut roughly half the weight from your current wheelset and should save you enough cash to put some nice tires on them. Performance runs sales all the time where you can get the Titan wheelset for abour $150, BTW these wheels and hubs are basically identical to the Neuvations who also run good sales on them frequently but usually the Performance price is a bit better: http://www.neuvationcycling.com/wheels.html

-Dave

 

[An old Guy]

Originally Posted by Mojo Johnson .

I am about to pull the trigger on this. Am I living in a dream world and setting myself up for disappointment, or does anyone see the logic in this investment? Have any of you upgraded your wheelset and realized the benefits of it in the past?

Thanks!

I think you failed to ask the correct question. How much time do you need to make up to not get dropped? How fast are you riding? Tell us that and we can tell you if you have a chance of buying enough speed.

I prefer Mavic Open Pro rims on Ultegra hubs. Under $400 for a pair. The rims seem to last for a reasonable length of time.

 

[Mojo Johnson]

Originally Posted by An old Guy .




I think you failed to ask the correct question. How much time do you need to make up to not get dropped? How fast are you riding? Tell us that and we can tell you if you have a chance of buying enough speed.

I prefer Mavic Open Pro rims on Ultegra hubs. Under $400 for a pair. The rims seem to last for a reasonable length of time.

Very fair. So the group I am riding with are Cat 5 - Cat 1 racers and the pace starts out at about 20 mph but gets up to an average of about 25 over rolling terrain and some nasty little climbs at about 10 miles in. The ride is 45 miles in total and the best in the group easily do it under 2 hours. It is, by my standards, very difficult and this ride is used as an intense training ride for all the racers in the area. Anyone familiar with Rochester NY will know this as the "Latte Ride" or "Galaxies."

I have been able to hang with these guys further every week but I am consistently getting dropped at the top of the climbs. Last week I positioned myself near the front on the biggest climb and moved pretty well up it but felt the group passing me on all sides. Once I got to the top I realized I was at the back of the pack and they were flying on the descent. I believe there are three key factors preventing me from sticking with them the whole way:

1.) Conditioning - I consider myself very fit, but not necessarily conditioned. I ride over 20 miles daily at varying paces and do at least 1 ride of 60 miles or more per week. I can maintain 18 mph comfortably by myself, 20 if I really push it. The problem I have, like many rec riders, is that I always train in the same zone and need to do more intervals to prepare myself for hard accelerations. I am working on this and it is the primary reason why I am doing these rides weekly - I want to prove to myself that I can race with these guys. I will be riding this specific route mid week every week to learn the nuances of it and hammer the hills that need to be hammered!

2.) Experience - I have never raced before and have only now ridden in 4 group rides. That said, I am learning the ropes and have done my homework on sticking in the peloton and following wheels. Still, I'm riding with guys who have done this for a long time and really know how to negotiate their way through the pack. My first time on this ride I got "pinched" out of the group and lost contact due to my own timidity in the group. I'm learning more and more and feel like this is an aspect of riding that I can get a handle on faster than the former.

3.) Equipment - I know it is the lowest on the list of group-riding priorities, but nevertheless a factor that I view as more controllable and immediately accessible. I'm not going to buy a Tarmac SL3 with Zipp 404's on it until I am regularly pinning a number on my back, but if I can shed a few lbs to hang a little longer in the climbing sections I figure I just may be able to maintain contact long enough to recovery in the group and not get dropped between climbs.

So yeah, I realize that a new wheelset isn't going to have me leading this group back to the coffee shop every Saturday, but it is one miniscule knob I can tweak while I continue training, conditioning, and studying. Plus, a new wheelset would make my bike look incredibly sweet.