The Fahrenheit 411: Michael Moore's Phony "Facts"



TritonRider wrote:
> Did you know that the UN/Nato just removed 60 officials
> from office in Bosnia. If that's not the act of an
> occupying power I don't know what is, burt I do know that
> if we did that in Iraq or Afghanistan there'd be hell to
> pay, but since that was Clinton's war everybody has
> chosen to ignore the fact that we are still pulling their
> strings and running their country.

Um, Bill, perhaps you haven't noticed this but Clinton left
office in January 2001.
 
TritonRider wrote:
>
> The point is that we are still having to live with failed
> policies from politicians that are no longer on the stage.

Can't argue with that. We're living with the failed birth
control policies of George Herbert Walker Bush from 60
years ago.
 
On 7/3/04 11:47 AM, in article [email protected], "Robert Chung"
<[email protected]> wrote:

> TritonRider wrote:
>>
>> The point is that we are still having to live with
>> failed policies from politicians that are no longer on
>> the stage.
>
> Can't argue with that. We're living with the failed birth
> control policies of George Herbert Walker Bush from 60
> years ago.
>
>
********!

Its called "Lack of personal responsibility"...... Ever
heard of this before?
 
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] (TritonRider) wrote:

> >From: "Robert Chung" [email protected]
>
> >Um, Bill, perhaps you haven't noticed this but Clinton
> >left office in January 2001.
>
> The point is that we are still having to live with failed
> policies from politicians that are no longer on the stage.
> Hell if Britain had managed Trans Jordan better, or the
> Jewish problem had been dealt with earlier we might not be
> having any of this discussion.
>
> The point is that Clinton and Albright worked their ass
> off to sell a war that IMHO was significantly less
> justified than Iraq to attempt to secure Clinton's place
> in history. The French and Germans didn't object too much
> so they didn't have to be payed off too badly. The
> Russians who had a huge investment in Milosevic managed
> to rape the US treasury for loans, devolopment aid, and
> guaranteed contracts to abstain from raising hell. The
> reasons given for going to war were:
> 1. Human rights - Iraq is at least as bad, Rhwanda was
> massively worse but the world bailed and the court of
> inquiry there is finding that the French military was
> heavily involved in supplying and protecting their
> former friends and colleagues who committed the
> genocide. Of course the French government is claiming
> that this was only done by isolated bad soldiers. Sound
> familiar? Search the BBC for more info
>
> 2. Milosevic was going to destabilise both Western Europe
> and the Russian federation and plunge the world into a
> continent wide war. As absurd as it sounds IMHO.
>
> 3. This was to enforce International law. See Rhwanda,
> Somalia etc... Also there was never a UN agreement that
> this was sanctioned, and I do not agree that the UN can
> "legally" decide to invade a sovereign nation that
> hasn't started the conflict by attacking a neighbor
> that asked for UN aid. This was an assault by a
> military alliance that was no different IMHO than the
> Warsaw Pact going into Afghanistan the first time, or
> their suppresion of Czechoslovakia.
>
> The point being that in my opinion the lack of complaint
> about the continued occupation and repression there is
> because Clinton was smart enough to, and the conditions
> were right for him to be able to buy off the
> International community so he could have his war, and
> shot at a Nobel Peace prize. Europe making agreements to
> divide up someone elses land isn't new, and is still
> creating lots of problems.
> ie: the Congo and large chunks of Africa.

You make some valid points, Bill. I would disagree on why
Clinton chose to go into Bosnia, though. I tend to think
it was done more as a shot at making up for the lack of
decisive action in Rwanda (which came about as a response
to the hammering he got for what happened in Somalia). As
for having to live with failed policies, I really think
we'll be dealing with that for a long time after the Iraq
situation, and the North Korea policy will be haunting us
for some time, too.

--
tanx, Howard

"The fickleness of fame and fortune's
caprice Together changed the life of Mason
Reese" Alice Donut

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?
 
In article <BD0C671C.36D13%[email protected]>,
Steve <[email protected]> wrote:

> On 7/3/04 11:47 AM, in article 2kodasF4lmbiU1@uni-
> berlin.de, "Robert Chung" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > TritonRider wrote:
> >>
> >> The point is that we are still having to live with
> >> failed policies from politicians that are no longer on
> >> the stage.
> >
> > Can't argue with that. We're living with the failed
> > birth control policies of George Herbert Walker Bush
> > from 60 years ago.
> >
> >
> ********!
>
> Its called "Lack of personal responsibility"...... Ever
> heard of this before?

Apparently Robert's joke was a little too subtle.

But as long as you mention "personal responsibilty", does
that include "The abuse of those detainees at Abu Ghraib
was not a policy, it was the actions of a few bad
apples", or "Even though my only mention of protection
against international terrorism on my list of law
enforcement priorites was as a sub-category of "gun
violence", the lack of focus on international terrorism
was all the fault of the Clinton administration." Just
for starters, mind you...

--
tanx, Howard

"The fickleness of fame and fortune's
caprice Together changed the life of Mason
Reese" Alice Donut

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?
 
Steve <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<BD0C671C.36D13%[email protected]>...

> >
> ********!
>
> Its called "Lack of personal responsibility"...... Ever
> heard of this before?

Dumbass -

Ya.

I've seen people claim the reason someone else had a college
education and they didn't was because one person's parents
had money and the other's didn't.

Couldn't figure out what their problem was. Couldn't take
personal responsibility.

K. Gringioni doesn't believe kolledge edication means ****
 
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] (TritonRider) wrote:

> >From: Howard Kveck [email protected]

> > As for having to live with failed policies, I really
> > think we'll be dealing with that for a long time after
> > the Iraq situation, and the North Korea policy will be
> > haunting us for some time, too.
>
> <snip> Agreed. I don't think there is a good way to deal
> with N Korea though, at least I can't come up with
> anything that I think works in the mid term. I can come
> up with short term ideas, those are still fairly easy.
> Long term is harder, but workable. The problem is
> stability in the middle and with what I think is an
> incredible economic and humanitarian crisis, but there
> is no real way to verify just what is happening, this is
> a powder keg. The sad part is that the North is much
> richer potentially. They have a much greater range of
> useable natural resources but have a shortage of good
> farmland.

The **** thing is that we're right back where things were
when Clinton left, working essentially the same plan (aka
"bribery", the best of *no* good options in dealing with
NK) that was called "appeasement" and not allowed to be
go into effect by Congress - only we've given them three
years to work on making more (or some) warheads and fine
tuning and testing delivery systems. (In addition,
there's the big psychological boost of having put one
over on the world's superpower.) Plus adding China in to
the mix, having failed to notice that China's strategic
goals in the region are not quite compatible with ours
(or maybe they just forgot - it was only a few months ago
that certain admin. types were saying that, strategically
speaking, China was a competitor).

>As far as Iraq goes, yeah we're going to have to live with
> it, but I'd
> still rather do the fighting there than here. I'm really
> surprised that
> we haven't been subjected to a lot more of the types of
> small, almost
>daily attacks that Israel has to live with or we're living
> with in Iraq.

It could be because it's far easier to do that kind of thing
in Iraq
than here right now. There's plenty of targets to choose
from if you were
an anti-West terrorist. It's far easier for them to get in
Iraq than the US.

> I'm afraid that it's just a matter of time. I don't give a
> **** what the politicians say, and the sheep want to
> believe there is no way in hell to secure a free democracy
> from terrorist attacks without turning it into a police
> state ala Stalin's "I will have peace, even if it has to
> the peace of the graveyard." That worked well.

I guess the example of that policy in action now is
Chechnya.

> If you kill everyone in the village where the attackers
> came from other villages soon stop helping insurgents. You
> just have to be willing to kill everyone and anyone in
> huge amounts at anytime.

Hmm, Sharon seems to be aiming for this plan.

> Other than that all we can do is try to prevent the
> attacks, and then clean up the mess. Bill C

--
tanx, Howard

"The fickleness of fame and fortune's
caprice Together changed the life of Mason
Reese" Alice Donut

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?
 
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] (K. Gringioni) wrote:

> Steve <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:<BD0C671C.36D13%[email protected]>...
>
> > >
> > ********!
> >
> > Its called "Lack of personal responsibility"...... Ever
> > heard of this before?
>
>
>
>
> Dumbass -
>
>
> Ya.
>
>
> I've seen people claim the reason someone else had a
> college education and they didn't was because one person's
> parents had money and the other's didn't.
>
>
> Couldn't figure out what their problem was. Couldn't take
> personal responsibility.
>
>
>
> K. Gringioni doesn't believe kolledge edication means ****

Excuse me, that's "*don't* believe". Jeeze, learn
some gramer...

--
tanx, Howard

"The fickleness of fame and fortune's
caprice Together changed the life of Mason
Reese" Alice Donut

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?
 

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