The Fattie Epidemic



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Benjamin Weiner wrote:
>
> heather halvorson <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Benjamin Weiner wrote:
>
> > > Or we could raise the price of gas to $8/gallon and make an incentive for people to walk 15
> > > minutes to and from a bus stop every day. That would work and have all sorts of great side
> > > effects (reduced dependence on foreign oil, better cycling training rides), but it might also
> > > cause armed revolution.
>
> > yeah, but this wouldn't be so cool with the distribution industry (and there's a lot of it).
>
> True. People would have to pay more for stuff, which would be un-American. The Euros manage with
> higher gas prices, but they are used to paying more for things. Also, their countries are smaller
> and population more clustered. The US is too big and too spread out and suburbanized for any
> simple solution - many people don't live within 15 min of a bus stop, despite what I said above.
>
> "Dear Mr. President, There are too many states. Please eliminate three.
>
> -Grandpa Simpson
>
> P.S. I am not a crackpot."

If a lot of people quit driving cars, you'd be suprised how many bus stops there'd be -
chicken <-> egg.
 
In article <[email protected]>, "Slider2699"
<[email protected]> wrote:

> "Raptor" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> > Nick Burns wrote:
> > > I have a serious question. Do you suppose that anything can be done
> about
> > > this?
> >
> > Another bully-pulpit type of presidential initiative might help. Not very creative, I know, but
> > it's all I've got.
>
> Maybe somehow obesity can be tied to supporting terrorism? Wait, nevermind. That line didn't work
> for drugs and it didn't work for gas guzzlers.

Of course it didn't work with drugs - all the people who grow and make their own must have
thought it was like they'd just gotten the president's seal of approval.

--
tanx, Howard

Read. Think. Type. Send.

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, k?

For some people, quantity IS quality...
 
On Sun, 15 Jun 2003 07:03:14 GMT, "Kurgan Gringioni"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Tax credits based upon Body Mass Index.

Spoken like a true cyclist. :)

>Since overweight people are much more likely to be ill in their old age, they will be more likely
>to be a burden on social services like Medicaid, therefore they should pay more. Just like reckless
>drivers are more likely to rack up accidents - they pay more in car insurance.

Since weak people are much more likely to damage their back, tear their rotator cuff, or suffer from
lack of mobility when older (the number one predictor of mobility in the elderly is quadriceps
strength), everyone who can't bench press their bodyweight, and squat and deadlift twice their
bodyweight needs to pay more too.

--
Scott Johnson "Always with the excuses for small legs. People like you are why they only open the
top half of caskets." -Tommy Bowen
 
"Top Sirloin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:p[email protected]...
> On Sun, 15 Jun 2003 07:03:14 GMT, "Kurgan Gringioni"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Tax credits based upon Body Mass Index.
>
> Spoken like a true cyclist. :)

Except for those of us with muscle mass -- sadly, BMI doesn't care about us. I'm muscular and the
lowest weight I've ever weighed (since 7th grade) is considered overweight by BMI. And I was ripped
at that weight. Perhaps we should go by percent bodyfat instead?

> >Since overweight people are much more likely to be ill in their old age, they will be more likely
> >to be a burden on social services like Medicaid, therefore they should pay more. Just like
> >reckless drivers are more
likely
> >to rack up accidents - they pay more in car insurance.
>
> Since weak people are much more likely to damage their back, tear their
rotator
> cuff, or suffer from lack of mobility when older (the number one predictor
of
> mobility in the elderly is quadriceps strength), everyone who can't bench
press
> their bodyweight, and squat and deadlift twice their bodyweight needs to
pay
> more too.
>
>
> --
> Scott Johnson "Always with the excuses for small legs. People like you are why they only open the
> top half of caskets." -Tommy Bowen
>

Now, it makes sense that social services would be burdened more by people who live longer. If
"fatties" live shorter lives, then they actually place less of a burden on social services.

(If the number on predictor of mobility in the elderly is quadriceps strength, I'm going to be a
highly mobile senior!)

--
Bob
 
"Bob" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Top Sirloin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:p[email protected]...
> > On Sun, 15 Jun 2003 07:03:14 GMT, "Kurgan Gringioni" <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >Tax credits based upon Body Mass Index.
> >
> > Spoken like a true cyclist. :)
>
> Except for those of us with muscle mass -- sadly, BMI doesn't care about
us.
> I'm muscular and the lowest weight I've ever weighed (since 7th grade) is considered overweight by
> BMI. And I was ripped at that weight. Perhaps
we
> should go by percent bodyfat instead?

BMI is a guide, it is not meant to provide an accurate assessment of each individual's
overall health.

Sure "we" could use bodyfat instead, what's yours? Mine is 17%.

> > >Since overweight people are much more likely to be ill in their old
age,
> > >they will be more likely to be a burden on social services like
Medicaid,
> > >therefore they should pay more. Just like reckless drivers are more
> likely
> > >to rack up accidents - they pay more in car insurance.
> >
> > Since weak people are much more likely to damage their back, tear their
> rotator
> > cuff, or suffer from lack of mobility when older (the number one
predictor
> of
> > mobility in the elderly is quadriceps strength), everyone who can't
bench
> press
> > their bodyweight, and squat and deadlift twice their bodyweight needs to
> pay
> > more too.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Scott Johnson "Always with the excuses for small legs. People like you are why they only open
> > the top half of caskets." -Tommy Bowen
> >
>
> Now, it makes sense that social services would be burdened more by people who live longer. If
> "fatties" live shorter lives, then they actually
place
> less of a burden on social services.

Nice try but fatties are a burden on social services for their entire lives not just when then
get older.

>
> (If the number on predictor of mobility in the elderly is quadriceps strength, I'm going to be a
> highly mobile senior!)

Dwarfs also have high quadricep strength.

Dashii
 
On Mon, 16 Jun 2003 16:51:10 GMT, "Bob" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>"Top Sirloin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:p[email protected]...
>> On Sun, 15 Jun 2003 07:03:14 GMT, "Kurgan Gringioni"
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >Tax credits based upon Body Mass Index.
>>
>> Spoken like a true cyclist. :)
>
>Except for those of us with muscle mass -- sadly, BMI doesn't care about us. I'm muscular and the
>lowest weight I've ever weighed (since 7th grade) is considered overweight by BMI. And I was ripped
>at that weight. Perhaps we should go by percent bodyfat instead?

No! We're big fatties because we weigh a lot!

>Now, it makes sense that social services would be burdened more by people who live longer. If
>"fatties" live shorter lives, then they actually place less of a burden on social services.

Except for all of those damn carts every store has to provide so they can get around - who pays for
those? Me and you!

>(If the number on predictor of mobility in the elderly is quadriceps strength, I'm going to be a
>highly mobile senior!)

Usually if they can get up, they can walk (unless their balance is gone). Everyone should make their
parents/grandparents do some bodyweight squats once a day.

--
Scott Johnson "Always with the excuses for small legs. People like you are why they only open the
top half of caskets." -Tommy Bowen
 
In article <eenHa.531$Fa6.1865@sccrnsc02>, Dashi Toshii <[email protected]> wrote:

> "Bob" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > "Top Sirloin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:p[email protected]...
> > > On Sun, 15 Jun 2003 07:03:14 GMT, "Kurgan Gringioni"
> > > <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >
> > > >Tax credits based upon Body Mass Index.
> > >
> > > Spoken like a true cyclist. :)
> >
> > Except for those of us with muscle mass -- sadly, BMI doesn't care about
> us.
> > I'm muscular and the lowest weight I've ever weighed (since 7th grade) is considered overweight
> > by BMI. And I was ripped at that weight. Perhaps
> we
> > should go by percent bodyfat instead?
>
> BMI is a guide, it is not meant to provide an accurate assessment of each individual's
> overall health.
>
> Sure "we" could use bodyfat instead, what's yours? Mine is 17%.

So the guy who is yelling at Jeff Potbelly to just ride hard every day to get his fat off is at 17%?
Interesting.

-WG
 
"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "warren" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:160620031636539488%[email protected]...
> >
> > So the guy who is yelling at Jeff Potbelly to just ride hard every day to get his fat off is at
> > 17%? Interesting.
>
>
>
>
> True, but the 17% Fattie isn't asking questions about how to get his spectacularly athletic Cat 5
> self a little fitter.

I don't know if it is possible for me to get a lower body fat percentage and still be healthy. I
have worked very hard everyday to get down to 166 lbs and 17% body fat.

Age is the limiting factor with me, at sixty years old I think that I am very fit and I continue to
get fitter.

So if these guys, that are much younger than I am, keep complaining about not being able to lose
weight or are unable to get fitter, then I think that they are full of ****.

They need to get out and work their ass off on the bike at least five days a week, as I explained
earlier, ride high intensity but back off a little bit a couple days a week for recovery.

I am quite confident that I can race and win, hill climbs, ITT's and road races against most of the
people on this newsgroup. <G> Any takers?

Dashii
 
Bob wrote:
> (If the number on predictor of mobility in the elderly is quadriceps strength, I'm going to be a
> highly mobile senior!)

That's the second time in a couple weeks I've heard that (for the first time(s) in my life). Where'd
you hear it, if a source/link is handy? I too hope it's true based on my leg strength.

I'll point out that a 400-lb man usually has tremendously strong legs as a matter of necessity.

So much for that little concept.

--
--
Lynn Wallace http://www.xmission.com/~lawall "I'm not proud. We really haven't done everything we
could to protect our customers. Our products just aren't engineered for security." --Microsoft VP in
charge of Windows OS Development, Brian Valentine.
 
Raptor <[email protected]> wrote:

: That's the second time in a couple weeks I've heard that (for the first time(s) in my life).
: Where'd you hear it, if a source/link is handy? I too hope it's true based on my leg strength.

: I'll point out that a 400-lb man usually has tremendously strong legs as a matter of necessity.

I've not heard this before, but I'll just point out that if you measure leg strength as some
percentage of body weight, then the 400lb man won't do so well.

Arthur (personally, I got to 3x body weight on the leg press then stopped)

--
Arthur Clune http://www.clune.org Power is delightful. Absolute power is absolutely delightful -
Lord Lester
 
"Arthur Clune" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> Raptor <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> : That's the second time in a couple weeks I've heard that (for the first time(s) in my life).
> : Where'd you hear it, if a source/link is handy? I too hope it's true based on my leg strength.
>
> : I'll point out that a 400-lb man usually has tremendously strong legs as a matter of necessity.
>
> I've not heard this before, but I'll just point out that if you measure leg strength as some
> percentage of body weight, then the 400lb man won't do so well.
>
> Arthur (personally, I got to 3x body weight on the leg press then stopped)
>
> --
> Arthur Clune http://www.clune.org Power is delightful. Absolute power is absolutely delightful -
> Lord Lester

Well, I didn't say that I believed it -- I just repeated it. Leg presses are easy. I used to leg
press using 8-45 pound plates per side, for many reps. Even now, I can press 6x45 per side for 20
reps or so, and that's basically with no training. Now squats, that's a different story -- 245 or
265 (eight - ten reps) is about the most I ever squatted. A lot of exercises are based on genetics
-- I have great genetics for leg presses. Conversely, I suck at bench presses and the most I ever
benched was around
225.

--
Bob
 
"Amit" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> [email protected] (Only LOSERS Need Affirmative Action) wrote in
message news:<[email protected]>...
> > >From: "Dashi Toshii" [email protected]
> >
> > >
> > >Dr. Atkins was a kook but he did have a good idea.
> > >
> > >Make the fatties believe that red meat, french fries, Big Mac's and
ribs are
> > >good for them.
> > >
> > >Dashii
> >
> > You are a moron. The Atkins diet does not include french fries, and the
Atkins
> > diet was just vindicated in a major study published in the NEJM. Go back
to
> > sleep, moron.
>
> The Atkins diet is just a trick to cut calories. If you cut out carbs will you probably cut out a
> lot of calories that you don't compensate for.
>
> Anytime you make a fattie take inventory of their consumption of make them analyze it they will
> tend to eat less calories.

Why is that? Perhaps it's because those of us who are insulin resistant tend to get hungry when hit
with the blood sugar spike caused by pasta and the like? I used to analyze my consumption all the
time, on both low fat and low carb. I eat about the same now (low carb) that I did then (low fat),
but my blood sugar is stable now. I no longer desire to eat, which is where the lower calories come
from. But, the lower calories are caused by low carb's effect on blood sugar (my opinion, anyway). I
can eat a plate of pasta (or brown rice) and be hungry an hour later; I can eat a low carb meal
(say, steak and vegetables with strawberries and full fat yoghurt) and not be hungry for hours.

If you're not insulin resistant, feel free to eat carbs. If you are insulin resistant, eating too
many carbs is a death sentence. Since I fall into the latter group, I'm done with pasta, rice, white
bread, and potatoes. Bring on the cherries, strawberries, radishes, salads, etc.

--
Bob
 
Dashi Toshii wrote:
> I am quite confident that I can race and win, hill climbs, ITT's and road races against most of
> the people on this newsgroup. <G> Any takers?
>
> Dashii

I'd love to take you on, but I'm only 52 so I'm not quite sure I have your stamina yet. Give me
another year ;)

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.
 
In article <[email protected]>, Amit wrote:
>
> The Atkins diet is just a trick to cut calories. If you cut out carbs will you probably cut out a
> lot of calories that you don't compensate for.
>

Actually, the Atkins diet is just a "trick" to get your body to switch to ketosis. That's
accomplished by not providing enough glucose, which in turn is accomplished by not eating enough
carbs. Once you're in ketosis, your fat stores are being consumed for energy rather than blood
sugar. Any change in caloric intake is completely coincidental and doesn't make a difference one way
or the other.

Of course, I'd never recommend the Atkins diet to anyone because one of the side-effects of
ketosis is really, really nasty breath; and the cravings that someone going on the diet supposedly
goes through for the first week or so have been described to me in ways that make cocaine
withdrawl seem tame.

Much better to eat right and exercise, but that's such a horribly difficult and long-term plan.

-Joe (6' and 150, no idea of body fat %)
 
On Tue, 17 Jun 2003 00:14:24 -0600, Raptor <[email protected]> wrote:

>Bob wrote:
>> (If the number on predictor of mobility in the elderly is quadriceps strength, I'm going to be a
>> highly mobile senior!)
>
>That's the second time in a couple weeks I've heard that (for the first time(s) in my life).
>Where'd you hear it, if a source/link is handy? I too hope it's true based on my leg strength.

I think I remember reading it in mfw, although I couldn't find the exact post.

I did find this excellent one though:

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=Xns931865BF52F8A8ch%40130.133.1.4&oe=UTF-8&output=gplain

One of the references for this article may have it, but I can't sort through them right now:

http://www.physsportsmed.com/issues/1997/09sep/buck.htm

If I find it, I'll yell.

>I'll point out that a 400-lb man usually has tremendously strong legs as a matter of necessity.
>
>So much for that little concept.

All he has to do is diet down and he'll have the classic pear shaped cyclists physique! :)

--
Scott Johnson "Always with the excuses for small legs. People like you are why they only open the
top half of caskets." -Tommy Bowen
 
On Tue, 17 Jun 2003 03:59:30 GMT, "Dashi Toshii" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>>
>> "warren" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:160620031636539488%[email protected]...
>> >
>> > So the guy who is yelling at Jeff Potbelly to just ride hard every day to get his fat off is at
>> > 17%? Interesting.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> True, but the 17% Fattie isn't asking questions about how to get his spectacularly athletic Cat 5
>> self a little fitter.
>
>I don't know if it is possible for me to get a lower body fat percentage and still be healthy. I
>have worked very hard everyday to get down to 166 lbs and 17% body fat.

How did you determine that bf%? Have any shirtless pics you can share?

--
Scott Johnson "Always with the excuses for small legs. People like you are why they only open the
top half of caskets." -Tommy Bowen
 
"Joe Navratil" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, Amit wrote:
> >
> > The Atkins diet is just a trick to cut calories. If you cut out carbs will you probably cut out
> > a lot of calories that you don't compensate for.
> >
> Actually, the Atkins diet is just a "trick" to get your body to switch to ketosis. That's
> accomplished by not providing enough glucose, which in turn is accomplished by not eating enough
> carbs. Once you're in ketosis, your fat stores are being consumed for energy rather than blood
> sugar. Any change in caloric intake is completely coincidental and doesn't make a difference one
> way or the other.

Actually, the change in caloric intake is indispensable - w/o it, there can be no true decrease in
body mass, even if ketosis could somehow be induced.

> Of course, I'd never recommend the Atkins diet to anyone because one of the side-effects of
> ketosis is really, really nasty breath; and the cravings that someone going on the diet supposedly
> goes through for the first week or so have been described to me in ways that make cocaine
> withdrawl seem tame.

There's also the fact that the ability to exercise is compromised, and the fact that the *long term*
health consequences are likely to be negative (the reason that the subjects in the two recent
studies didn't experience deleterious changes in blood lipid profile, etc., is simply because they
were in a negative energy balance - and the Atkins dieters more so).

> Much better to eat right and exercise, but that's such a horribly difficult and long-term plan.

Well said.

> -Joe (6' and 150, no idea of body fat %)

Andy Coggan (6' and 150, about 8% body fat)
 
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