The great diet myth

Discussion in 'Food and nutrition' started by Tcomeau, Feb 20, 2004.

  1. Tcomeau

    Tcomeau Guest

    The great diet myth

    http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,8737533%255E23289,00.html

    ------------------
    GARY Wittert is forever telling people it's simple to stay slim and fit. All you have to do is to
    eat less, exercise more and stick to mostly healthy fresh food and fruits.

    "It's really very simple - so simple that people often don't believe me," Professor Wittert, an
    obesity expert who is Department of Medicine head at Royal Adelaide Hospital, says. "A radio
    reporter once interviewed me on whether diets work.

    "I told her it's very simple to stay slim - just eat fresh food and fruits in moderation and
    exercise more. She called me back the next day and told me that her editor decided not to use the
    story because my message was too simple."

    Perhaps this explains why so many fad diets have mushroomed in the last few years and why women --
    and increasingly more men -- are obsessed with diets, because they believe diets are the only way to
    fight off flab.
    ------------------

    This guy says that it is so easy it is boring. He seems to forget that 98% of those who try this
    "easy" way to lose weight, fail at it. The implication is that obese people can't even follow simple
    direstions. At the same time he refers to low-carb diets as a fad.

    The kicker? Look who this guy is:

    Gary A. Wittert, Ph.D., Associate Professor, Department of Medicine, University of Adelaide; Senior
    Consultant Endocrinologist, Royal Adelaide Hospital; and President of the Australasian Society for
    the Study of Obesity, Adelaide, Australia. Research on the interaction of insulin, glucagon-like
    peptide 1, gastric inhibitory polypeptide, and appetite in response to intraduodenal carbohydrate
    supported by the Sugar Bureau. (Am. J. Clin. Nutr. 1998;68:591-8) Member of the McDonald's
    Corporation Global Advisory Council on Healthy Lifestyles; formed to "help guide the company on
    activities that address the need for balanced, healthy lifestyles."
    (http://www.mcdonalds.com/corporate/press/corporate/2003/05212003/; accessed 6/23/03)

    Another industry shill. He works for the sugar bureau and McDonalds!!!!

    Big surprise...

    TC
     
    Tags:


  2. Jmk

    Jmk Guest

    On 2/20/2004 11:34 AM, tcomeau wrote:

    > He seems to forget that 98% of those who try this "easy" way to lose weight, fail at it.

    What percent of low-carb dieters experience long term success and how would you define low-carb for
    this purpose? Please provide citations to support your claims.

    --
    jmk in NC
     
  3. [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] Once upon a time, our fellow tcomeau
    rambled on about "The great diet myth." Our champion De-Medicalizing in sci.med.nutrition
    retorts, thusly ...

    >The great diet myth

    May I suggest that you check the source?

    Ha, ... Hah, Ha!

    "... you have my sympathies" Science Officer Ash to Ripley, in the movie ALIEN.
     
  4. tcomeau wrote:

    > The great diet myth
    >
    >
    > http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,8737533%255E23289,00.html
    >
    > ------------------
    > GARY Wittert is forever telling people it's simple to stay slim and fit. All you have to do is to
    > eat less, exercise more and stick to mostly healthy fresh food and fruits.
    >
    > "It's really very simple - so simple that people often don't believe me," Professor Wittert, an
    > obesity expert who is Department of Medicine head at Royal Adelaide Hospital, says. "A radio
    > reporter once interviewed me on whether diets work.
    >
    > "I told her it's very simple to stay slim - just eat fresh food and fruits in moderation and
    > exercise more. She called me back the next day and told me that her editor decided not to use the
    > story because my message was too simple."
    >
    > Perhaps this explains why so many fad diets have mushroomed in the last few years and why women --
    > and increasingly more men -- are obsessed with diets, because they believe diets are the only way
    > to fight off flab.
    > ------------------
    >
    > This guy says that it is so easy it is boring. He seems to forget that 98% of those who try this
    > "easy" way to lose weight, fail at it. The implication is that obese people can't even follow
    > simple direstions. At the same time he refers to low-carb diets as a fad.
    >
    > The kicker? Look who this guy is:
    >
    > Gary A. Wittert, Ph.D., Associate Professor, Department of Medicine, University of Adelaide;
    > Senior Consultant Endocrinologist, Royal Adelaide Hospital; and President of the Australasian
    > Society for the
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    > Study of Obesity, Adelaide, Australia. Research on the interaction of
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    > insulin, glucagon-like peptide 1, gastric inhibitory polypeptide, and appetite in response to
    > intraduodenal carbohydrate supported by the Sugar Bureau. (Am. J. Clin. Nutr. 1998;68:591-8)
    > Member of the McDonald's Corporation Global Advisory Council on Healthy Lifestyles; formed to
    > "help guide the company on activities that address the need for balanced, healthy lifestyles."
    > (http://www.mcdonalds.com/corporate/press/corporate/2003/05212003/; accessed 6/23/03)
    >
    > Another industry shill. He works for the sugar bureau and McDonalds!!!!
    >
    > Big surprise...

    Was he selling sugar? Was he pushing McDonalds? Nope, just telling the truth. There's no magic, eat
    less, exercise more.

    Why would anyone buy your magic pixie dust?

    --Jeff

    --
    Ho, ho, ho, hee, hee, hee and a couple of ha, ha, has; That's how we pass the day away, in the merry
    old land of Oz.
     
  5. Tcomeau

    Tcomeau Guest

    Jeffrey Turner <[email protected]> wrote in message >
    > Was he selling sugar? Was he pushing McDonalds? Nope, just telling the truth. There's no magic,
    > eat less, exercise more.
    >
    > Why would anyone buy your magic pixie dust?
    >
    > --Jeff

    He is selling the myth that refined carbs is a healthy food. Isn't it obvious? The only people who
    question low-carb diets are

    1) unfamiliar with the diet or
    2) an industry shill or
    3) animal right agitators

    I challenge you to find me one public opponent of low-carb that isn't in any of these categories.

    TC
     
  6. tcomeau wrote:

    > Jeffrey Turner <[email protected]> wrote in message >
    >
    >>Was he selling sugar? Was he pushing McDonalds? Nope, just telling the truth. There's no magic,
    >>eat less, exercise more.
    >>
    >>Why would anyone buy your magic pixie dust?
    >>
    >>--Jeff
    >
    >
    > He is selling the myth that refined carbs is a healthy food. Isn't it obvious? The only people who
    > question low-carb diets are
    >
    > 1) unfamiliar with the diet or
    > 2) an industry shill or
    > 3) animal right agitators
    >
    > I challenge you to find me one public opponent of low-carb that isn't in any of these categories.

    He was saying that there's no real advantage to any of the pre-packaged diets. There isn't. If you
    eat fewer calories than you use, you will burn fat. There aren't any shortcuts and no pixie dust.
    People are gaining weight because food is overly plentiful and our lifestyles are more sedentary. If
    you exercise regularly to get your metabolism up and eat fewer calories than you burn up then you
    will lose weight. Vegetables, and fruits, have more nutrients per calorie so they are good foods to
    keep you healthy on fewer calories. Then eat solidly nutritional foods to round out your diet - so
    you get all your necessary nutrients.

    Unless you can show that his research on insulin and appetite showed otherwise, I'd suggest you
    don't put words in his mouth. And somebody should tell McDonalds how to make their meals more
    nutritious and less fattening.

    "From the top selling and controversial Atkins diet, zone diet, blood-group diet, macrobiotic diet,
    the cabbage soup diet, montignac diet, Jenny Craig, Weight Watchers to the Ashram diet, they all
    promise to make you lose weight -- fast."

    Is macrobiotics a low-carb diet? Cabbage soup?

    --Jeff

    --
    Ho, ho, ho, hee, hee, hee and a couple of ha, ha, has; That's how we pass the day away, in the merry
    old land of Oz.
     
  7. Tcomeau

    Tcomeau Guest

    Jeffrey Turner <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > tcomeau wrote:
    >
    > > Jeffrey Turner <[email protected]> wrote in message >
    > >
    > >>Was he selling sugar? Was he pushing McDonalds? Nope, just telling the truth. There's no magic,
    > >>eat less, exercise more.
    > >>
    > >>Why would anyone buy your magic pixie dust?
    > >>
    > >>--Jeff
    > >
    > >
    > > He is selling the myth that refined carbs is a healthy food. Isn't it obvious? The only people
    > > who question low-carb diets are
    > >
    > > 1) unfamiliar with the diet or
    > > 2) an industry shill or
    > > 3) animal right agitators
    > >
    > > I challenge you to find me one public opponent of low-carb that isn't in any of these
    > > categories.
    >
    > He was saying that there's no real advantage to any of the pre-packaged diets. There isn't. If you
    > eat fewer calories than you use, you will burn fat. There aren't any shortcuts and no pixie dust.
    > People are gaining weight because food is overly plentiful and our lifestyles are more sedentary.
    > If you exercise regularly to get your metabolism up and eat fewer calories than you burn up then
    > you will lose weight. Vegetables, and fruits, have more nutrients per calorie so they are good
    > foods to keep you healthy on fewer calories. Then eat solidly nutritional foods to round out your
    > diet - so you get all your necessary nutrients.
    >
    > Unless you can show that his research on insulin and appetite showed otherwise, I'd suggest you
    > don't put words in his mouth. And somebody should tell McDonalds how to make their meals more
    > nutritious and less fattening.
    >
    > "From the top selling and controversial Atkins diet, zone diet, blood-group diet, macrobiotic
    > diet, the cabbage soup diet, montignac diet, Jenny Craig, Weight Watchers to the Ashram diet, they
    > all promise to make you lose weight -- fast."
    >
    > Is macrobiotics a low-carb diet? Cabbage soup?
    >
    > --Jeff

    Ok... What exactly is the mechanism by which the body detects excess calorie intake and triggers fat
    storage? How exactly does this work. Please provide references.

    TC
     
  8. Mirek Fidler

    Mirek Fidler Guest

    > lose weight. Vegetables, and fruits, have more nutrients per calorie so they are good foods to
    > keep you healthy on fewer calories. Then eat solidly nutritional foods to round out your diet - so
    > you get all your necessary nutrients.

    But that is what it is about! (Except that fruits tend to have much less nutrients per calorie than
    vegetables). Add to this that meat has a lot of nutrition too, fat is needed to absorb that
    nutrition and starchy/sugary things (called the 'white stuff' in LC jargon) tend to be worst in this
    regard - and what you get is the low-carb diet.

    Personally, I do not think there is anything magical in LC dieting, except that replacing potatoes
    by non-starchy vegetables is something your apetite will hardly notice - but your calorie intake
    will be much, much lower. Remove the "white stuff" and you will start loosing.

    Mirek
     
  9. Mirek Fidler wrote:
    >>lose weight. Vegetables, and fruits, have more nutrients per calorie so they are good foods to
    >>keep you healthy on fewer calories. Then eat solidly nutritional foods to round out your diet - so
    >>you get all your necessary nutrients.
    >
    >
    > But that is what it is about! (Except that fruits tend to have much less nutrients per calorie
    > than vegetables). Add to this that meat has a lot of nutrition too, fat is needed to absorb that
    > nutrition and starchy/sugary things (called the 'white stuff' in LC jargon) tend to be worst in
    > this regard - and what you get is the low-carb diet.
    >
    > Personally, I do not think there is anything magical in LC dieting, except that replacing potatoes
    > by non-starchy vegetables is something your apetite will hardly notice - but your calorie intake
    > will be much, much lower. Remove the "white stuff" and you will start loosing.

    Maybe. But if you're eating at McDonalds but tossing the bun you're not doing yourself much of a
    favor. Face it, it's easier to get more fat in your diet than you need and fat has over twice the
    calories per gram that carbs do. It's not carbs that make you fat, it's calories.

    --Jeff

    --
    Ho, ho, ho, hee, hee, hee and a couple of ha, ha, has; That's how we pass the day away, in the merry
    old land of Oz.
     
  10. Jmk

    Jmk Guest

    On 2/20/2004 11:45 AM, jmk wrote:
    > On 2/20/2004 11:34 AM, tcomeau wrote:
    >
    >> He seems to forget that 98% of those who try this "easy" way to lose weight, fail at it.
    >
    >
    > What percent of low-carb dieters experience long term success and how would you define low-carb
    > for this purpose? Please provide citations to support your claims.
    >

    TC, still waiting for your citations...

    --
    jmk in NC
     
  11. Mirek Fidler

    Mirek Fidler Guest

    > >> He seems to forget that 98% of those who try this "easy" way to lose weight, fail at it.
    > >
    > >
    > > What percent of low-carb dieters experience long term success and
    how
    > > would you define low-carb for this purpose? Please provide
    citations to
    > > support your claims.
    > >
    >
    > TC, still waiting for your citations...

    Well, I think that you want rather much in rather short time. Long term success is considered
    after five years of keeping weight off. Now low-carb mania started one or two years ago. Give it
    a chance :)

    Anyway, there definitely ARE people that succeded in long term on LC. What about learning from them
    rather than bashing LC?

    Mirek
     
  12. Mirek Fidler

    Mirek Fidler Guest

    > Maybe. But if you're eating at McDonalds but tossing the bun you're not doing yourself much of
    > a favor.

    That is out of question. Completely agree.

    > Face it, it's easier to get more fat in your diet than you need and fat has over twice the
    > calories per gram that carbs do. It's not carbs that make you fat, it's calories.

    I would disgree a little bit about this. I think that "fat appetite" is fairly limited. Try to eat
    excess of pure fat - I think you will end at 50g maximum. Try to eat unlimited portions of meat. And
    now try the same thing with bread. That said, I believe that our bodies are able to recognize fat
    and protein calories fairly well, but they might have a problem recognizing carbs - simply because
    they are not used to as high carbs concentrations as is common in last several thousands of years
    when agriculture started to produce starch. At least, for me this works.

    Other than that, it is calories. There might be a slight metabolic advantage for ketogenic diet -
    maybe. But it is not anything as magical as good Dr. A wanted us to believe....

    Mirek
     
  13. Robert Klute

    Robert Klute Guest

    On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 21:41:03 -0500, Jeffrey Turner
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Maybe. But if you're eating at McDonalds but tossing the bun you're not doing yourself much of a
    >favor. Face it, it's easier to get more fat in your diet than you need and fat has over twice the
    >calories per gram that carbs do. It's not carbs that make you fat, it's calories.

    You are making the mistake in assuming that if I reduce my consumption of carbs by X grams, I will
    increase my fat consumption by X grams. Studies have shown (no cites at hand) that fat is more
    satisfying, and for a longer time, than carbs so you tend to consume fewer of them.

    Refined carbs are metabolized quicker than fats, so they are introduced into the blood stream
    faster. This can result in elevated glucose levels in the blood, affecting insulin levels and
    increasing the probability that the excess glucose will be converted to fat.
     
  14. Ben A. Green

    Ben A. Green Guest

    "Mirek Fidler" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > > Maybe. But if you're eating at McDonalds but tossing the bun you're not doing yourself much of a
    > > favor.
    >
    > That is out of question. Completely agree.
    >
    > > Face it, it's easier to get more fat in your diet than you need and fat has over twice the
    > > calories per gram that carbs do. It's not carbs that make you fat, it's calories.
    >
    > I would disgree a little bit about this. I think that "fat appetite" is fairly limited. Try to eat
    > excess of pure fat - I think you will end at

    The main point of low-carb concerns insulin. Carbs put sugar into the blood much more efficiently
    than other macronutrients, and that is dangerous to blood vessels. So the body produces lots of
    insulin to sweep it away even before you can use it for energy. And where does that blood sugar go?

    It goes to fat and is stored away.
     
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