The Klan was at Cross Worlds?



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So in your books 1 + 1 = 13?

I say that a white southerner is more likely to be biased for southerners black or white and you say
that means that northerners are more likely to discriminate? What sort of world do you live in where
racist hatred makes up your whole life?

"Steven Y. Litvin" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> Tom
>
> > It is to the NAACP's quite notable advantage to perpetuate the
idea
> > that blacks are discriminated against in an illegal an ongoing
manner.
> > Nothing could be further from the truth and it has gravely
discouraged
> > blacks in this country.
>
> but you said earlier
>
> >I spent four years in the service and in that time I discovered
that a
> >white southerner would far sooner give a hand-up and a good review
to
> >a black southerner than a white northerner
>
> implying you believe people in the north are more likely to take
race into
> account when reviewing someone's performance.
>
> So which one is it Tom? Racisms does not exist is a figment of
black's (and
> other minorities) imagination or northerners are more racist then southerners?
>
> Steve
 
"**** Durbin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Robert Chung" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> > "**** Durbin" <[email protected]> wrote
> > > So, are we to assume that it's OK for you to make gross generalizations about Southerners and
> > > the reason they fly the Confederate Battle Flag? Do you know the person that was flying
that
> > > flag and his reasons? Do you know if he belongs to the KKK or
are you
> > > just assuming?
> >
> > So what you're saying is, the guy might not be a racist. He might
just be a
> > good ole boy who acts in a fashion that makes it look like he's a
racist.
> > Okay, I can buy that.
>
> If that's what the flag means to you, that is your problem, not his.

In that PBS special on the civil war, when Lee surrendered at Appomattox and his beaten and smashed
forces were disarmed and forced to go home in defeat, the Union forces lined the road. They stood to
attention as the Rebs marched past and saluted in silence and respect. A respect that those who
didn't fight and didn't study their history are unwilling to give. I could hear the Liberals
throughout the USA screaming in pain.

The suggestion that the Civil War was about slavery is stupid in the extreme. Very few southerners
owned slaves and virtually NONE of the Confederate foot soldiers. The Confederates were fighting for
what they SAID they were fighting for - State's Rights - an ideal that is surely untaught to the
bunch of simpering yokels who are unaware of the real issues that brought about such a great war.

Were there slave owners promoting the Confederacy? Need we be reminded that Charles Lindberg, that
American Icon, was promoting Naziism? Or that Sean Penn was over in Iraq being shown kids in
hospitals but I expect he wasn't shown the torture chambers where 1 out of every 22 Iraqis have
spent time and died. The only man ever on the face of the earth to kill a higher per capita
percentage of his people was Joe Stalin. The man many call "Papa Joe" still in Russia.
 
"**** Durbin" <[email protected]> wrote
> "Robert Chung" wrote:
> > "**** Durbin" <[email protected]> wrote
> > > So, are we to assume that it's OK for you to make gross generalizations about Southerners and
> > > the reason they fly the Confederate Battle Flag? Do you know the person that was flying that
> > > flag and his reasons? Do you know if he belongs to the KKK or are you just assuming?
> >
> > So what you're saying is, the guy might not be a racist. He might just
be a
> > good ole boy who acts in a fashion that makes it look like he's a
racist.
> > Okay, I can buy that.
>
> If that's what the flag means to you, that is your problem, not his.

If my opinion bothers you, that's your problem, not mine.
 
FWIW ... the particular flag in the photo, which y'all are arguing about isn't the Confederate
battle flag. It's the Confederate Navy Jack.

in article [email protected], Robert Chung at [email protected]
wrote on 02/03/2003 11:21 PM:

>
> "**** Durbin" <[email protected]> wrote
>> "Robert Chung" wrote:
>>> "**** Durbin" <[email protected]> wrote
>>>>
>>>> So, are we to assume that it's OK for you to make gross generalizations about Southerners and
>>>> the reason they fly the Confederate Battle Flag? Do you know the person that was flying that
>>>> flag and his reasons? Do you know if he belongs to the KKK or are you just assuming?
>>>
>>> So what you're saying is, the guy might not be a racist. He might just be a good ole boy who
>>> acts in a fashion that makes it look like he's a racist.
>>>
>>> Okay, I can buy that.
>>
>> If that's what the flag means to you, that is your problem, not his.
>
> If my opinion bothers you, that's your problem, not mine.

--

Steven L. Sheffield stevens at veloworks dot com veloworks at worldnet dot ay tea tee dot net bellum
pax est libertas servitus est ignoratio vis est ess ay ell tea ell ay kay ee sea aye tee why you ti
ay aitch aitch tee tea pea colon [for word] slash [four ward] slash double-you double-yew double-ewe
dot veloworks dot com [four word] slash
 
On 3 Feb 2003, Tom Arsenault wrote:

> The KKK uses the battle flag as one of their symbols. The neo-nazis use a Swastika. So in your
> estimation, it's OK to fly a Swatiska as well? Did you vote for Wallace? I wouldn't be surprised.
>
If a sikh rider was in the race, could a sikh supporter fly the swastika? It is the sikh symbol for
good fortune, after all.

... . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . [email protected] Kyle Legate [email protected]

Tower of Tongues:Thursday PM:10:30-11:30 EDT:http://cfmu.mcmaster.ca moon
musick:ritual:IDM:experimental(electronica):minimalism:glitch
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ...
 
On Tue, 4 Feb 2003, Tom Kunich wrote:

> Tom, you're so funny that you ought to be on TV. You are so filled with hatred of other people
> that you just can't see that it doesn't extend past your own mind. You do know that is a treatable
> mental aberation?
>
Racism is a medical condition now? What meds are given?

... . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . [email protected] Kyle Legate [email protected]

Tower of Tongues:Thursday PM:10:30-11:30 EDT:http://cfmu.mcmaster.ca moon
musick:ritual:IDM:experimental(electronica):minimalism:glitch
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ...
 
"Tom Kunich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<PnH%[email protected]>...
> Tom, you're so funny that you ought to be on TV. You are so filled with hatred of other people
> that you just can't see that it doesn't extend past your own mind. You do know that is a treatable
> mental aberation?

I know I'm funny, but TV? Do you really think so? Man, I could quit this 9-5 BS and make some real
money. Maybe I could even sponsor my own D3 pro team and put you on it, just so that I could fire
you. That would be sweet. Ah, dreams that we all have in this lifetime.

I don't hate other people, just people who are ignorant in their own minds of what is happening
around them. And even them I don't hate, I try to INFORM them. Open your mind, and your eyes, and
you'll see what is going on in your Republican world of disillusionment. Well, then again, I doubt
it because you're always right, I (along with possibly anyone else that disagrees with you) am
probably wrong. Oh and there are 2 r's in aberration (since you've critiqued my grammar before, I
can critique your spelling while we're at it). Also, I must be a communist since I don't want the US
to go to war with Iraq (see your previous post about the peace movement being started by the
communists back in the 60's).
 
"Tom Kunich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<wBH%[email protected]>...
> "**** Durbin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > "Robert Chung" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>...
> > > "**** Durbin" <[email protected]> wrote
> > > > So, are we to assume that it's OK for you to make gross generalizations about Southerners
> > > > and the reason they fly the Confederate Battle Flag? Do you know the person that was flying
> that
> > > > flag and his reasons? Do you know if he belongs to the KKK or
> are you
> > > > just assuming?
> > >
> > > So what you're saying is, the guy might not be a racist. He might
> just be a
> > > good ole boy who acts in a fashion that makes it look like he's a
> racist.
> > > Okay, I can buy that.
> >
> > If that's what the flag means to you, that is your problem, not his.
>
> In that PBS special on the civil war, when Lee surrendered at Appomattox and his beaten and
> smashed forces were disarmed and forced to go home in defeat, the Union forces lined the road.
> They stood to attention as the Rebs marched past and saluted in silence and respect. A respect
> that those who didn't fight and didn't study their history are unwilling to give. I could hear the
> Liberals throughout the USA screaming in pain.
>
> The suggestion that the Civil War was about slavery is stupid in the extreme. Very few
> southerners owned slaves and virtually NONE of the Confederate foot soldiers. The Confederates
> were fighting for what they SAID they were fighting for - State's Rights - an ideal that is
> surely untaught to the bunch of simpering yokels who are unaware of the real issues that brought
> about such a great war.
>
> Were there slave owners promoting the Confederacy? Need we be reminded that Charles Lindberg, that
> American Icon, was promoting Naziism? Or that Sean Penn was over in Iraq being shown kids in
> hospitals but I expect he wasn't shown the torture chambers where 1 out of every 22 Iraqis have
> spent time and died. The only man ever on the face of the earth to kill a higher per capita
> percentage of his people was Joe Stalin. The man many call "Papa Joe" still in Russia.

That was a show of respect between armed forces. I think that they realized that these men they were
fighting were not a force of foreign invaders, but their brothers, and we as a country felt the
losses on both sides. Yes, the North won, but losses were great. The war was over, there was no
further reason to kill each other, they walked back to their homes, battles well fought. Even though
I'm a liberal and proud of it, WHEN we go to war with Iraq (because of a war mongering
administration that we have) I will support our troops, because without them, we wouldn't have the
great country that we do. I will not support the war, but I will support the people fighting it, and
there is a distinct difference there.

Lindberg was an idiot. He was a spoiled rich kid who only did one thing in his life. He flew over
the Atlantic. Our own government didn't think the Nazi party was too dangerous either. Sean Penn
going over to Iraq was just plain stupid, and only gave Hussein more propaganda film.

To say that the Civil was not fundamentally about slavery is lunacy. What in the hell do you think
"State's Rights" meant to most people in the South? It meant their way of life. Slavery... Look how
long they stayed segragated after the Civil War. The end of the Civil War gave rise to the KKK and
other hate groups. Don't say it wasn't about slavery. It was. There were other issues, but slavery
was at the forefront of them all.

Tom
 
"Robert Chung" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> "**** Durbin" <[email protected]> wrote
> > "Robert Chung" wrote:
> > > "**** Durbin" <[email protected]> wrote
> > > > So, are we to assume that it's OK for you to make gross generalizations about Southerners
> > > > and the reason they fly the Confederate Battle Flag? Do you know the person that was flying
> > > > that flag and his reasons? Do you know if he belongs to the KKK or are you just assuming?
> > >
> > > So what you're saying is, the guy might not be a racist. He might just
> be a
> > > good ole boy who acts in a fashion that makes it look like he's a
> racist.
> > > Okay, I can buy that.
> >
> > If that's what the flag means to you, that is your problem, not his.
>
> If my opinion bothers you, that's your problem, not mine.

And if you don't think that slavery was a large part of the Civil War, read the link and learn:
http://www.swcivilwar.com/cw_causes.html
 
[email protected] (**** Durbin) wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> "Robert Chung" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>...
> > "**** Durbin" <[email protected]> wrote
> > > So, are we to assume that it's OK for you to make gross generalizations about Southerners and
> > > the reason they fly the Confederate Battle Flag? Do you know the person that was flying that
> > > flag and his reasons? Do you know if he belongs to the KKK or are you just assuming?
> >
> > So what you're saying is, the guy might not be a racist. He might just be a good ole boy who
> > acts in a fashion that makes it look like he's a racist. Okay, I can buy that.
>
> If that's what the flag means to you, that is your problem, not his.

Why is it that the Confederate battle flag wasn't an issue when Clinton was the governor of Arkansas
which has a version of that Confederate flag on one of its official state flags?

Could it possibly that the person flying that flag wasn't even an American? Could it be that it
was some American from the Georgia that just wanted everyone to know that he was a southern boy
born and bred?

I find it hideous that people who give not the slightest respect to the American flag can find so
much meaning in another flag.
 
Tom Arsenault wrote:

> I don't hate other people, just people who are ignorant in their own minds of what is happening
> around them.

Now be a modest little boy and start with trying to figure out what basicly people are saying to
you. Cuz you have been seriously batting in the air over here.
 
"Tom Kunich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<akH%[email protected]>...
> So in your books 1 + 1 = 13?
>
> I say that a white southerner is more likely to be biased for southerners black or white and you
> say that means that northerners are more likely to discriminate? What sort of world do you live in
> where racist hatred makes up your whole life?
>

An equally stupid question:

Tom...what kind of world do you live in where racist hatred does not exist and doesn't affect the
day to day lives of people throughout the US?

Steve
 
[email protected] (Sharon Peters) wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> WHAT THE **** IS THIS?
>
> http://velonews.com/view_full.php?image=/images/cyc/3435.3582.f.jpg
>
> I KNOW THAT THE RIGHT WINGERS IN FLANDERS HAND OUT THOSE "VLAMS LEUW" FLAGS, MAYBE THE KLAN
> THOUGHT IT WAS A GOOD IDEA.
>
> ITS ONE THING TO BE A GOOFY REGIONALIST LIKE THE CROSS CRUSADE GUYS, ITS ANOTHER TO BE A RACIST.
>
> THANKS SHARON
>
> ps: Don't give me that tired old 'heritage' or 'states rights' ********. There are at least 3
> distinct flags of the Confederacy, most of which would be more appropriate and historicaly
> accurate than the battle flag. The only reason to fly the battle flag is to advocate hatred.

It is probably nothing more than some pinhead German with no life that has seen "The good, the bad &
the ugly" one too many times and thinks of himself as a "rebel".

I think many of us knew someone like that when we were kids, I did. He was 10 years old, 20lbs over
weight, never left the house without his "rebel" cap and Levi jacket with this flag stiched in over
his heart. He didn't know what it meant, he just thought it was cool.
 
Tom Kunich wrote:

> "**** Durbin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> "Robert Chung" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>...
>> > "**** Durbin" <[email protected]> wrote
>> > > So, are we to assume that it's OK for you to make gross generalizations about Southerners and
>> > > the reason they fly the Confederate Battle Flag? Do you know the person that was flying
> that
>> > > flag and his reasons? Do you know if he belongs to the KKK or
> are you
>> > > just assuming?
>> >
>> > So what you're saying is, the guy might not be a racist. He might
> just be a
>> > good ole boy who acts in a fashion that makes it look like he's a
> racist.
>> > Okay, I can buy that.
>>
>> If that's what the flag means to you, that is your problem, not his.
>
> In that PBS special on the civil war, when Lee surrendered at Appomattox and his beaten and
> smashed forces were disarmed and forced to go home in defeat, the Union forces lined the road.
> They stood to attention as the Rebs marched past and saluted in silence and respect. A respect
> that those who didn't fight and didn't study their history are unwilling to give. I could hear the
> Liberals throughout the USA screaming in pain.
>
> The suggestion that the Civil War was about slavery is stupid in the extreme. Very few
> southerners owned slaves and virtually NONE of the Confederate foot soldiers. The Confederates
> were fighting for what they SAID they were fighting for - State's Rights - an ideal that is
> surely untaught to the bunch of simpering yokels who are unaware of the real issues that brought
> about such a great war.
>
> Were there slave owners promoting the Confederacy? Need we be reminded that Charles Lindberg, that
> American Icon, was promoting Naziism? Or that Sean Penn was over in Iraq being shown kids in
> hospitals but I expect he wasn't shown the torture chambers where 1 out of every 22 Iraqis have
> spent time and died. The only man ever on the face of the earth to kill a higher per capita
> percentage of his people was Joe Stalin. The man many call "Papa Joe" still in Russia.

Really tom?

I learned the 'State's Right' argument back in middle school. Oh, btw, my conspiracy-minded,
ultra-conserative fiend... I went to a Northern suburban school. Just so you little mind can
digest that.

Joe
--

Pursuant to U.S. code,title 47, Chapter 5, Subchapter II, Section 227, and consistent with Oregon
State Law, any and all unsolicited commercial E-mail sent to this address is subject to a consulting
fee of $500.00 U.S. E-Mailing denotes acceptance of these terms. Consult
<http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/47/227.html> for details.
 
Steven Y. Litvin wrote:

> Tom
>
>> It is to the NAACP's quite notable advantage to perpetuate the idea that blacks are discriminated
>> against in an illegal an ongoing manner. Nothing could be further from the truth and it has
>> gravely discouraged blacks in this country.
>
> but you said earlier
>
>>I spent four years in the service and in that time I discovered that a white southerner would far
>>sooner give a hand-up and a good review to a black southerner than a white northerner
>
> implying you believe people in the north are more likely to take race into account when reviewing
> someone's performance.
>
> So which one is it Tom? Racisms does not exist is a figment of black's (and other minorities)
> imagination or northerners are more racist then southerners?
>
> Steve

Steve,

Never try to argue with the tom. You are wrong and he is right. Regardless.

Joe
--

Pursuant to U.S. code,title 47, Chapter 5, Subchapter II, Section 227, and consistent with Oregon
State Law, any and all unsolicited commercial E-mail sent to this address is subject to a consulting
fee of $500.00 U.S. E-Mailing denotes acceptance of these terms. Consult
<http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/47/227.html> for details.
 
Steve Litvin wrote:

> "Tom Kunich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:<akH%[email protected]>...
>> So in your books 1 + 1 = 13?
>>
>> I say that a white southerner is more likely to be biased for southerners black or white and you
>> say that means that northerners are more likely to discriminate? What sort of world do you live
>> in where racist hatred makes up your whole life?
>>
>
> An equally stupid question:
>
> Tom...what kind of world do you live in where racist hatred does not exist and doesn't affect the
> day to day lives of people throughout the US?
>
> Steve

Steve,

Don't go there... Don't even ASK the question. NO ONE wants to know the world the tom lives in.
Trust me...

Joe
--

Pursuant to U.S. code,title 47, Chapter 5, Subchapter II, Section 227, and consistent with Oregon
State Law, any and all unsolicited commercial E-mail sent to this address is subject to a consulting
fee of $500.00 U.S. E-Mailing denotes acceptance of these terms. Consult
<http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/47/227.html> for details.
 
On Tue, 4 Feb 2003 08:58:21 -0500, Kyle Legate wrote:
>If a sikh rider was in the race, could a sikh supporter fly the swastika? It is the sikh symbol for
>good fortune, after all.

That would be sikh.
 
*snipped from before***
> Why is it that the Confederate battle flag wasn't an issue when Clinton was the governor of
> Arkansas which has a version of that Confederate flag on one of its official state flags?
>
> Could it possibly that the person flying that flag wasn't even an American? Could it be that it
> was some American from the Georgia that just wanted everyone to know that he was a southern boy
> born and bred?
>
> I find it hideous that people who give not the slightest respect to the American flag can find so
> much meaning in another flag.

When Clinton was President, it was an issue, it has been an issue for a long time. No as far as not
respecting the American flag, I didn't hear anyone refer to anything bad about the American flag in
this thread. We are talking about the Confederate battle flag here.

If you want to talk about the American flag, just speaking for myself, I love that flag, I love this
country. My great grandfather fought in WWI, my grandfather was part of the Airborne who fought it
out in the Ardenne and other parts of Europe in WWII, and my father fought in Korea. So before you
start batting around the ideas of people hating the American flag, get your facts straight before
you start batting that issue around.

Tom
 
"Tom Kunich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<siE%[email protected]>...
> "Steven Y. Litvin" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> >
> > > The view that the Confederate battle flag stands for racism and
> hatred
> > > is a lie perpetrated by the Liberals on the world at large and is
> not
> > > related to reality in the least.
> >
> > So, since they object to the use of the Confederate battle flag, the
> NAACP
> > are a bunch of lying liberals who know nothing about racism or
> hatred?
>
> It is to the NAACP's quite notable advantage to perpetuate the idea that blacks are discriminated
> against in an illegal an ongong manner. Nothing could be further from the truth and it has gravely
> discouraged blacks in this country.

So now it's a conspiracy with the NAACP to perpetuate the idea that blacks are discriminated against
in an illegal ongoing matter? Wake up buddy and crawl out of your lilly white world. Blacks and
other minorities ARE discriminated against every single day in this country, illegally. If you don't
think that is true, you're ****ing (yes I dropped the "F" bomb) crazy! Talk to ANY, and I do stress
ANY, black leader and he or she will tell you about the racism and discrimination that they've faced
throughout their years. I think that the racism and discimination in this country have, as you put
it, gravely discouraged the black population in this country, not the NAACP. They are a group for
change for their community.

I love your ******** conspiracy theories. Keep them coming. I'm sure you heard this latest theory on
Dr. Laura or Rush Limbaugh, or some other synidacted right wing conservative talk show host.
 
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