The LBS got my money again!



K

Ken Marcet

Guest
Yeap they got some more of my money! But I think I have solved all of my
saddle issues. I went there looking at new saddles, and while I was
"looking" one of the guys (maybe the owner) came up to me and asked me if I
needed help, and I asked if they had any more saddles other than the ones I
was looking at hanging on the rack. He then said "and we have these over
here" pointing to a big pile of saddles on a shelf sort of hidden behind
some other stuff. Then he asked me about my "current" saddle, I explained to
him what my current one was, and why I thought I needed a new saddle. He
agreed and told be that any of the saddles off that shelf would be $15.00,
then I asked if they were saddles that came off new bikes that the customer
wanted an upgraded saddle before the bike even left the showroom. He said
they were. So I looked at a bunch of the saddles off the shelf, and decided
on one that was about the same length and width as my current one. So I
decided on an "Avenir Comfort Plus" model, it's got springs on the backside,
and the underside shell is plastic (vs steel on my current one) and the
seating surface seems to be lycra. I came home bolted it on, took it for a
ride around the block for a little test, and it seems okay, the springs kind
of give your back end a little wigle that I am not quite used to but seems
to smooth out the ride a bit!

Hats off to the LBS this time!
Thanks for all the advise I got here in the newsgroups.

Ken
--
More of my mind dribblings: http://mind-dribble.blogspot.com/
And my homepage: http://kcm-home.tripod.com/
 
On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 12:51:26 -0500, "Ken Marcet" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Yeap they got some more of my money! But I think I have solved all of my
>saddle issues. I went there looking at new saddles, and while I was
>"looking" one of the guys (maybe the owner) came up to me and asked me if I
>needed help, and I asked if they had any more saddles other than the ones I
>was looking at hanging on the rack. He then said "and we have these over
>here" pointing to a big pile of saddles on a shelf sort of hidden behind
>some other stuff. Then he asked me about my "current" saddle, I explained to
>him what my current one was, and why I thought I needed a new saddle. He
>agreed and told be that any of the saddles off that shelf would be $15.00,
>then I asked if they were saddles that came off new bikes that the customer
>wanted an upgraded saddle before the bike even left the showroom. He said
>they were. So I looked at a bunch of the saddles off the shelf, and decided
>on one that was about the same length and width as my current one. So I
>decided on an "Avenir Comfort Plus" model, it's got springs on the backside,
>and the underside shell is plastic (vs steel on my current one) and the
>seating surface seems to be lycra.

Uh not a good choice unless you're riding in the park twice a week.
Springs? You've got to be kidding! And why would you want plastic instead
of steel in your saddle?

>I came home bolted it on, took it for a
>ride around the block for a little test, and it seems okay, the springs kind
>of give your back end a little wigle that I am not quite used to but seems
>to smooth out the ride a bit!

Quick, who has the brain eraser! <g>

jj


>Hats off to the LBS this time!
>Thanks for all the advise I got here in the newsgroups.
>
>Ken
 
"jj" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 12:51:26 -0500, "Ken Marcet" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >Yeap they got some more of my money! But I think I have solved all of my
> >saddle issues. I went there looking at new saddles, and while I was
> >"looking" one of the guys (maybe the owner) came up to me and asked me if
I
> >needed help, and I asked if they had any more saddles other than the ones
I
> >was looking at hanging on the rack. He then said "and we have these over
> >here" pointing to a big pile of saddles on a shelf sort of hidden behind
> >some other stuff. Then he asked me about my "current" saddle, I explained
to
> >him what my current one was, and why I thought I needed a new saddle. He
> >agreed and told be that any of the saddles off that shelf would be
$15.00,
> >then I asked if they were saddles that came off new bikes that the
customer
> >wanted an upgraded saddle before the bike even left the showroom. He said
> >they were. So I looked at a bunch of the saddles off the shelf, and
decided
> >on one that was about the same length and width as my current one. So I
> >decided on an "Avenir Comfort Plus" model, it's got springs on the
backside,
> >and the underside shell is plastic (vs steel on my current one) and the
> >seating surface seems to be lycra.
>
> Uh not a good choice unless you're riding in the park twice a week.
> Springs? You've got to be kidding! And why would you want plastic instead
> of steel in your saddle?
>
Springs?!? As quoted from Sheldon Browns site: Springs
Until the 1970s bike boom, virtually all bicycle saddles had springs. The
only cyclists who rode un-sprung saddles were hard-core, high-intensity
riders. These cyclists carried such a large proportion of their body weight
on their legs that they didn't need springs in their saddles, and they were
weight-concious enough to begrudge the weight of the springs. Sporty
cylcists also preferred unsprung saddles because they made it easier to
pedal rapid cadences without bouncing.
When the bike boom struck, and everybody in America bought a racing-style
drop-bar ten speed, the unsprung saddle was part of the deal. Unfortunately,
neither the un-sprung saddle, the drop handlebars, nor the narrow tires
suited the needs of the more casual, "recreational" cyclist.

The mountain bike revolution was a movement away from the drop bar and the
narrow tire, but the unsprung saddle remained. Since the mountain bike came
with big fat squishy tires, the tire was able to provide enough
shock-absorbency to make the bikes reasonably comfortable to ride.
Unfortunately, those same tires also made the bikes slow and hard to pedal.

Despite fashion, I believe that saddles with built-in springs make a great
deal of sense for most cyclists, who favor a fairly upright riding position
which puts more of the rider's weight on the saddle.

Here is a link to the page: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/saddles.html

And plastic? Why would you want your butt on steel rather than plastic?
Seems like a better choice to me.

Ken

> >I came home bolted it on, took it for a
> >ride around the block for a little test, and it seems okay, the springs
kind
> >of give your back end a little wigle that I am not quite used to but
seems
> >to smooth out the ride a bit!
>
> Quick, who has the brain eraser! <g>
>
> jj
>
>
> >Hats off to the LBS this time!
> >Thanks for all the advise I got here in the newsgroups.
> >
> >Ken
>
 
On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 14:47:35 -0500, "Ken Marcet" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Here is a link to the page: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/saddles.html
>
>And plastic? Why would you want your butt on steel rather than plastic?
>Seems like a better choice to me.
>
>Ken

Hi Ken, it's hard to argue against Sheldon.

Uh, just let me reiterate. Eventually, if you keep riding and improving you
will evolve to a point where you don't plunk all your weight down on the
saddle. In that case you want more of a reference point, a place to center
and stabilize, but not an 'easy chair'. I only have most of my weight on my
saddle when I'm recovering from a hard sprint (for me), or a climb. And
then as -soon- as I'm able I try to get low, relaxed and stretched out over
the bike again.

Adding something that 'moved' where the saddle was would rob me of power
even if in minor ways, and would seem unstable - heh, not to mention when
it starts to squeak a couple years from now. At least that way everyone
knows you're coming, eh? ;-) But seriously, everytime you push down on the
pedals the bike goes forward except for bikes that are suspended - then
part of that power goes back at you and compresses the springs. Everytime
you pedal you're fighting the wind and the steep plus now you're
compressing the springs in your saddle.

Plastic could deform, or give and I don't want my saddle to do either
unless we're talking leather saddles. <g> Of all the things on my bike, I
want my saddle to be the same everytime (once it's broken in for Brooks'
fans). [The other thing I want to be the same is my foot position on the
pedals and my pedal stroke.]

Just keep it in mind.

At first we all tend to ride sitting up and all the weight on the saddle,
and a tight grip on the handlebars. But it's good to remember you're going
for a 'light touch' on the bike. You want to make your body light. So light
touch on the handlebars, light touch on the saddle and light touch on the
pedals. In the spread out position you're aero, but you don't need to have
that great drop from the saddle to the handlebars. My saddle is about level
with the handlebars. I'm not talking an uncomfortable crouch, though being
stretched out is less comfortable than 'sitting up' on the bike - it takes
practice and getting used to.

jj
 
jj wrote:

> Uh, just let me reiterate. Eventually, if you keep riding and improving you
> will evolve to a point where you don't plunk all your weight down on the
> saddle.

I'm not sure this is true for everyone. I think some people just like
riding, and don't turn it into a "I gotta be faster, stronger, better"
all-consuming activity.

And I don't think the springs in a saddle would rob you of energy like
shocks would, because shocks obsorb energy that's being applied to the
pedals, whereas springs in the seat mearly make the bumps being
transmitted to your butt a little softer. No power being applied to the
pedals are used to compress the springs.

Rich
 
On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 14:01:35 -0700, Rich <[email protected]> wrote:

>jj wrote:
>
>> Uh, just let me reiterate. Eventually, if you keep riding and improving you
>> will evolve to a point where you don't plunk all your weight down on the
>> saddle.
>
>I'm not sure this is true for everyone. I think some people just like
>riding, and don't turn it into a "I gotta be faster, stronger, better"
>all-consuming activity.

I was careful to say if you keep riding and improving. IOW, I'm trying to
shed some light on what I've found to be the natural evolution - mainly
'light on the bike'.

Make you a bet. You go out and ride like I've described, light on the bike,
take all your hills by keeping light on the handlebars, shift your weight
forwards, center the weight over your pedals, almost like you are standing
but still -just- remaining seated. Come back after a week of trying this
and I bet you are a convert. Don't even try to go faster. ;-)

>And I don't think the springs in a saddle would rob you of energy like
>shocks would, because shocks obsorb energy that's being applied to the
>pedals, whereas springs in the seat mearly make the bumps being
>transmitted to your butt a little softer. No power being applied to the
>pedals are used to compress the springs.
>
>Rich

Well-l-l, I was guessing, but I think I'd feel that the bouncing on the
saddle, even if slight would feel like it was robbing power. I had such a
bike about 3 years ago and I remember the boing-itty-boing feeling. You can
have it.

jj
 
Ken wrote:
> ...I think I have solved all of my
> saddle issues. ...big pile of saddles on a shelf sort of hidden
behind
> some other stuff. ...saddles that came off new bikes that the
customer
> wanted an upgraded saddle before the bike even left the showroom....

The $5.00 box is my favorite part of shopping at an LBS, and most if
not all of my saddles come from there.
Glad it worked for you too!

--Karen M.
 
jj wrote:

> Make you a bet. You go out and ride like I've described, light on the bike,
> take all your hills by keeping light on the handlebars, shift your weight
> forwards, center the weight over your pedals, almost like you are standing
> but still -just- remaining seated. Come back after a week of trying this
> and I bet you are a convert.

I'm a convert. I've converted my bicycling from a solo activity to a
family activity. My rides now-a-days are on a MTB-tandem with my wife
as the stoker and my kid in a burley trailer. I spend a lot of time
talking and checking on the kid. So while I often get passed by people
who spend alot more time concentrating on form, I'm 100% sure I'm
getting as much or more out of my experience then they are out of theirs.

Different strokes for different folks.

Rich
 
Well I can see your point if you are really pushing hard, but I use this
bike mostly for around town commuting. And I find for this I prefer a more
upright type position. Perhaps like you say if I get more advanced I will
want to upgrade my saddle again. But for now the saddle I bought seems like
it will be fine.

Ken

"jj" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 14:47:35 -0500, "Ken Marcet" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >Here is a link to the page: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/saddles.html
> >
> >And plastic? Why would you want your butt on steel rather than plastic?
> >Seems like a better choice to me.
> >
> >Ken
>
> Hi Ken, it's hard to argue against Sheldon.
>
> Uh, just let me reiterate. Eventually, if you keep riding and improving
you
> will evolve to a point where you don't plunk all your weight down on the
> saddle. In that case you want more of a reference point, a place to center
> and stabilize, but not an 'easy chair'. I only have most of my weight on
my
> saddle when I'm recovering from a hard sprint (for me), or a climb. And
> then as -soon- as I'm able I try to get low, relaxed and stretched out
over
> the bike again.
>
> Adding something that 'moved' where the saddle was would rob me of power
> even if in minor ways, and would seem unstable - heh, not to mention when
> it starts to squeak a couple years from now. At least that way everyone
> knows you're coming, eh? ;-) But seriously, everytime you push down on the
> pedals the bike goes forward except for bikes that are suspended - then
> part of that power goes back at you and compresses the springs. Everytime
> you pedal you're fighting the wind and the steep plus now you're
> compressing the springs in your saddle.
>
> Plastic could deform, or give and I don't want my saddle to do either
> unless we're talking leather saddles. <g> Of all the things on my bike, I
> want my saddle to be the same everytime (once it's broken in for Brooks'
> fans). [The other thing I want to be the same is my foot position on the
> pedals and my pedal stroke.]
>
> Just keep it in mind.
>
> At first we all tend to ride sitting up and all the weight on the saddle,
> and a tight grip on the handlebars. But it's good to remember you're going
> for a 'light touch' on the bike. You want to make your body light. So
light
> touch on the handlebars, light touch on the saddle and light touch on the
> pedals. In the spread out position you're aero, but you don't need to have
> that great drop from the saddle to the handlebars. My saddle is about
level
> with the handlebars. I'm not talking an uncomfortable crouch, though being
> stretched out is less comfortable than 'sitting up' on the bike - it takes
> practice and getting used to.
>
> jj
>
 
"Veloise" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Ken wrote:
> > ...I think I have solved all of my
> > saddle issues. ...big pile of saddles on a shelf sort of hidden
> behind
> > some other stuff. ...saddles that came off new bikes that the
> customer
> > wanted an upgraded saddle before the bike even left the showroom....
>
> The $5.00 box is my favorite part of shopping at an LBS, and most if
> not all of my saddles come from there.
> Glad it worked for you too!
>
> --Karen M.
>
Well I don't know that they have a "box" but someone told me it is a good
place to look for a saddle.
I usually don't really like the LBS becuase some of the guys that work there
are less than helpful.
But a new saddle was in order, and I wanted to feel it before buying it,
something that is hard to do online.

Ken
 
Sat, 12 Mar 2005 16:22:27 -0500,
<[email protected]>,
speaking of saddles, jj <[email protected]> wrote, in part:

>>I'm not sure this is true for everyone. I think some people just like
>>riding, and don't turn it into a "I gotta be faster, stronger, better"
>>all-consuming activity.
>
>I was careful to say if you keep riding and improving. IOW, I'm trying to
>shed some light on what I've found to be the natural evolution - mainly
>'light on the bike'.
>
>Make you a bet. You go out and ride like I've described, light on the bike,
>take all your hills by keeping light on the handlebars, shift your weight
>forwards, center the weight over your pedals, almost like you are standing
>but still -just- remaining seated. Come back after a week of trying this
>and I bet you are a convert. Don't even try to go faster. ;-)

I was always a roadie rat so when I finally got a fat-tire bike I
still ride it light. But found a sprung saddle looks cool on this
bike. The ride is amazingly comfortable for those times you can't get
airborne because of the loaded rack and pannier.
--
zk
 
Sat, 12 Mar 2005 16:42:56 -0500, <[email protected]>,
"Ken Marcet" <[email protected]> wrote:

>Well I can see your point if you are really pushing hard, but I use this
>bike mostly for around town commuting. And I find for this I prefer a more
>upright type position. Perhaps like you say if I get more advanced I will
>want to upgrade my saddle again. But for now the saddle I bought seems like
>it will be fine.

Sprung saddles are generally a lighter weight, less expensive and more
reliable comfort option than are "suspension seat-posts". The cheap
posts tend to break and then wiggle from side to side.

My joe-bke runs the cheap Brooks Champion Flyer. No complaints except
sometimes, like cheap shoes, it squeaks a little.
--
zk
 
On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 15:20:35 -0500, jj <[email protected]> wrote:


>
>Plastic could deform, or give and I don't want my saddle to do either
>unless we're talking leather saddles.

jj, what kind of saddle do you ride?

Both Terry's that I bought [and resold], Selle Italia Prolinks, and
various other saddles, had some type of plastic inner body. The rails
are all metal, I wouldn't want plastic rails, but the only saddles
with metal bottoms, that I have seen, were cheap and uncomfortable.
Leather saddles of the Brooks style, of course, don't have any inner
bottom, but most others do.


Life is Good!
Jeff
 
On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 00:53:12 GMT, Jeff Starr <[email protected]> wrote:

>On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 15:20:35 -0500, jj <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>
>>Plastic could deform, or give and I don't want my saddle to do either
>>unless we're talking leather saddles.
>
>jj, what kind of saddle do you ride?
>
>Both Terry's that I bought [and resold], Selle Italia Prolinks, and
>various other saddles, had some type of plastic inner body. The rails
>are all metal, I wouldn't want plastic rails, but the only saddles
>with metal bottoms, that I have seen, were cheap and uncomfortable.
>Leather saddles of the Brooks style, of course, don't have any inner
>bottom, but most others do.
>
>
>Life is Good!
>Jeff

Well, I guess I thought he meant all (cheap) plastic or something. I've got
the stock saddle that came with the Trek. So you're probably right, metal
rails and plastic inner body, I dunno. Sorry 'bout that.

jj
 
"jj" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 00:53:12 GMT, Jeff Starr <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 15:20:35 -0500, jj <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>
> >>Plastic could deform, or give and I don't want my saddle to do either
> >>unless we're talking leather saddles.
> >
> >jj, what kind of saddle do you ride?
> >
> >Both Terry's that I bought [and resold], Selle Italia Prolinks, and
> >various other saddles, had some type of plastic inner body. The rails
> >are all metal, I wouldn't want plastic rails, but the only saddles
> >with metal bottoms, that I have seen, were cheap and uncomfortable.
> >Leather saddles of the Brooks style, of course, don't have any inner
> >bottom, but most others do.
> >
> >
> >Life is Good!
> >Jeff
>
> Well, I guess I thought he meant all (cheap) plastic or something. I've
got
> the stock saddle that came with the Trek. So you're probably right, metal
> rails and plastic inner body, I dunno. Sorry 'bout that.
>
> jj
>
Well I wouldn't want plastic rails either! I don't think any company would
even make such a thing. The saddle I just bought has steel rails, and
plastic shell on the underside.

Ken
 
"Ken Marcet" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Well I can see your point if you are really pushing hard, but I use this
> bike mostly for around town commuting. And I find for this I prefer a more
> upright type position.

I hear you. I have a sprung saddle on my mountain bike, and it is the
perfect saddle for that bike. I have ridden a back-to-back century on that
bike with that seat, and I can testify. Yes, you don't move fast in that
upright position on a heavy bike, but it sure is comfy. Fast isn't
everything.

--
Warm Regards,

Claire Petersky
Home of the meditative cyclist:
http://home.earthlink.net/~cpetersky/Welcome.htm
Personal page: http://www.geocities.com/cpetersky/
See the books I've set free at:
http://bookcrossing.com/referral/Cpetersky
 
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