The One Hour Record

[gntlmn]

The Hour Record has again been broken, folks. The new mark is 49.700 Km, up from Boardman's 49.441 Km and Merckx' 49.440 Km. The man of the hour (pardon the pun ) is Czech rider Ondrej Sosenka. I'll be gathering more information in the forthcoming days on this rider and his magnificent ride into the history books.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/other_sports/cycling/4697367.stm

 

[gntlmn]

Last Friday, July 15, 2005, Ondrej Sosenka met with journalists in a press conference to announce he would be making a go at the record today, July 19, 2005. Apparently, he was successful in his attempt.

http://it.news.yahoo.com/050715/38/3b2ja.html

 

[bikeguy]

Yeah, I saw something about this yesterday, never heard of him before and he just comes and breaks the record... 1:15 for the first kilometer, I guess he was warming up (or should I say hotting up) for the next 48.7 km.

-Bikeguy

 

[gntlmn]

Yeah, I saw something about this yesterday, never heard of him before and he just comes and breaks the record... 1:15 for the first kilometer, I guess he was warming up (or should I say hotting up) for the next 48.7 km.

-Bikeguy

He has been winning tours, just not the Grand Tours. He's a good rider. I think this says something about Chris Boardman's record though. I think it says current road racers compare very favorably with that record. The very best of them can beat the new one too, I think. They haven't made a go of it. I think they should. We could see some real changes in who owns this record if more guys would make a serious attempt at it.

 

[taras0000]

He has been winning tours, just not the Grand Tours. He's a good rider. I think this says something about Chris Boardman's record though. I think it says current road racers compare very favorably with that record. The very best of them can beat the new one too, I think. They haven't made a go of it. I think they should. We could see some real changes in who owns this record if more guys would make a serious attempt at it.

This new record poses two thoughts for me. WIll there be a rush to break the hour record now by the top roadies? And, does the fact that a rider broke the record who is not one of the big names in the hour bring down the significance of the record?

 

[bikeguy]

gntlmn wrote: I think it says current road racers compare very favorably with that record. The very best of them can beat the new one too, I think. They haven't made a go of it. I think they should. We could see some real changes in who owns this record if more guys would make a serious attempt at it.

I don't know, there's quite a bit of physiological information available on Boardman, that his V02 max was around 90 ml-kg-min, weighed 68 kg or so, and could hit 600 watts in a VO2 max test. He also holds (still) the record for 4000 m individual pursuit. Boardman was also set multiple time trial records, demolishing his opponents in the process. I'm surprised by Ondrej Sosenka's rapid jump up to this level.

-Bikeguy

 

[gntlmn]

This new record poses two thoughts for me. WIll there be a rush to break the hour record now by the top roadies? And, does the fact that a rider broke the record who is not one of the big names in the hour bring down the significance of the record?

I don't know if there will be a rush, but I suspect that if Lance doesn't make a go at it, that others will. Lance has said that he is retiring, but I don't know if this means he has decided not to try for the Hour Record. We'll have to see, I guess. As for the significance of the record, I'd say that it has been historically significant, but that current big name riders have not tested it enough. I suspect that current training methods and nutrition perhaps have increased the capabilities of current riders such that the Hour Record is bound to fall again soon.

 

[gntlmn]

I see that Ondrej Sosenka will try to better the Hour Record again in about a year. He was only 300 meters shy of 50 km, a barrier he'd like to break. Interestingly, the indoor track in Moscow is longer than most tracks: 333 m versus 250 m. It seems like the longer track would give a rider a very mild advantage, but he broke the record by a wide enough margin that he certainly would have broken it anyway had the track been shorter. A significant factor though was that there were only about 40 people in the velodrome compared to a large crowd when Boardman broke it. Granted that the crowd cheered Chris on in the last 100 meters or so, they also competed for oxygen with Boardman. That factor would have been much less with Ondrej.

http://www.radio.cz/en/article/68724

 

[gntlmn]

I don't know, there's quite a bit of physiological information available on Boardman, that his V02 max was around 90 ml-kg-min, weighed 68 kg or so, and could hit 600 watts in a VO2 max test. He also holds (still) the record for 4000 m individual pursuit. Boardman was also set multiple time trial records, demolishing his opponents in the process. I'm surprised by Ondrej Sosenka's rapid jump up to this level.

-Bikeguy

Those various tests are interesting to look at, but the best tests of how well someone will do in an ITT is a history of ITT results. Ondrej has been winning ITT's since 1998. He has an impressive record, actually. It's just that he isn't a big name cyclist (yet).

http://www.cycle-racing.com/winners/Sosenka.htm

Which time trial records did Boardman set? You aren't talking about the One Hour Performance records, are you? Those were the ones that were aerodynamically aided and later discredited. The One Hour Record recognized by UCI was only broken once by Boardman. Other time trial records are not generally recognized as being comparable to other riders through history. It's like there may be records kept of various ITT's in the Tour de France, but wind, weather and road conditions don't make for realistic comparisons to riders who ride the same course on a different day. There's no doubt that Boardman was an excellent TT man. What I'm saying is that this Hour Record is a better measure against other riders than a record set outside in variable conditions.

 

[531Aussie]

man, I love this stuff!!

Apart from what is in the news articles, has anyone found out more about his bike; tyres, wheels, etc?

One problem with Armstrong is I doubt he'll be able to do ANYTHING without a lot of people knowing, so, would the lack of secret testing put him off?
He wouldn't want a bunch of journos watching him hack around a velodrome at 48kmh.

 

[bikeguy]

gntlmn wrote: Which time trial records did Boardman set?

The 4000 m individual track pursuit comes to mind, what about 4:11? Since a great 4 K time indicates tremendous aerobic power output, it's not surprising he beat the hr record (riding on a standard bike in the drops). No other cyclist has come close to 4:11.

gntlmn wrote: Those were the ones that were aerodynamically aided and later discredited.

I hate to tell you this, but Ullrich/Armstrong (the two best) in yesterdays TdF time trial and all the other TT'ers, were riding on aerobars and using aero handlebars/bikes/wheels/seatposts/helmets etc. However, I'm sure their results weren't discredited.

gntlmn wrote:The One Hour Record recognized by UCI was only broken once by Boardman.

Yes, he was the previous record holder.

gntlmn wrote:Those various tests are interesting to look at, but the best tests of how well someone will do in an ITT is a history of ITT results.

Boardman holds the 4 k pursuit record, and has held it for a long time. Anyway, you're wrong, based on a Wmax test and measuring drag area and coefficient one can calculate quite well how a rider will ride a TT, it was done with Indurain and the data matched almost exactly with his actual vs. predicted 1 hr record time. Boardman is known for having a very small drag area and his W/Cda is the best there ever was (possibly excluding the new hour record holder). Rest assured that if a under 80 kg rider out there can ramp to 600+ w in a 2 minute/25 W graded test he will take down the hour record. It's estimated that Indurain could have ridden at 58 km/hr if he had been able to get as aero as Boardman.

Some detailed analysis of Lance Armstrong revealed that his power output/ drag area isn't small enough for him to break the hour record . I hear he has some back problems, so riding very aero is a problem for him.

see http://www.biketechreview.com/performance/pareto.htm for some aerodynamic analysis.

gntlmn wrote:There's no doubt that Boardman was an excellent TT man. What I'm saying is that this Hour Record is a better measure against other riders than a record set outside in variable conditions.

You have a point there. Just keep in mind Boardman's 4:11 4000 m!!!

 

[gntlmn]

man, I love this stuff!!

Apart from what is in the news articles, has anyone found out more about his bike; tyres, wheels, etc?

One problem with Armstrong is I doubt he'll be able to do ANYTHING without a lot of people knowing, so, would the lack of secret testing put him off?
He wouldn't want a bunch of journos watching him hack around a velodrome at 48kmh.

I think Armstrong would need to see that the crowd doesn't get too big there to avoid spoiling the air. But I don't see any recent hints that he may try for this record. I think he may be retiring from cycling in all forms. It certainly sounds like it.

Sosenka used a heavier wheel. His bike weighed 9.8 kg, but the back wheel weighed 3.2 kg. His cranks were 190 mm. I'll be posting his height and weight if I can find it.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/?id=2005/jul05/jul19news6

 

[bikeguy]

gntlmn wrote:A significant factor though was that there were only about 40 people in the velodrome compared to a large crowd when Boardman broke it.

You know, I was wondering about that too a few months ago, I was thinking the same thing, a big crowd may just lower the oxygen content of the air in an indoor velodrome.

-Bikeguy

 

[gntlmn]

gntlmn wrote: Which time trial records did Boardman set?

The 4000 m individual track pursuit comes to mind, what about 4:11? Since a great 4 K time indicates tremendous aerobic power output, it's not surprising he beat the hr record (riding on a standard bike in the drops). No other cyclist has come close to 4:11.

gntlmn wrote: Those were the ones that were aerodynamically aided and later discredited.

I hate to tell you this, but Ullrich/Armstrong (the two best) in yesterdays TdF time trial and all the other TT'ers, were riding on aerobars and using aero handlebars/bikes/wheels/seatposts/helmets etc. However, I'm sure their results weren't discredited.

gntlmn wrote:The One Hour Record recognized by UCI was only broken once by Boardman.

Yes, he was the previous record holder.

gntlmn wrote:Those various tests are interesting to look at, but the best tests of how well someone will do in an ITT is a history of ITT results.

Boardman holds the 4 k pursuit record, and has held it for a long time. Anyway, you're wrong, based on a Wmax test and measuring drag area and coefficient one can calculate quite well how a rider will ride a TT, it was done with Indurain and the data matched almost exactly with his actual vs. predicted 1 hr record time. Boardman is known for having a very small drag area and his W/Cda is the best there ever was (possibly excluding the new hour record holder). Rest assured that if a under 80 kg rider out there can ramp to 600+ w in a 2 minute/25 W graded test he will take down the hour record. It's estimated that Indurain could have ridden at 58 km/hr if he had been able to get as aero as Boardman.

Some detailed analysis of Lance Armstrong revealed that his power output/ drag area isn't small enough for him to break the hour record . I hear he has some back problems, so riding very aero is a problem for him.

see http://www.biketechreview.com/performance/pareto.htm for some aerodynamic analysis.

gntlmn wrote:There's no doubt that Boardman was an excellent TT man. What I'm saying is that this Hour Record is a better measure against other riders than a record set outside in variable conditions.

You have a point there. Just keep in mind Boardman's 4:11 4000 m!!!

I was aware of Boardman's accomplishments in very short distances. That's where he made his mark in cycling and why they used to call Chris "Mr. Prologue" in the Tour de France. He was the man to beat in the very short Prologue but never a force in the Tour GC. Winning in the Tour has a lot to do with the ability to recover from each stage, and he remarked that he didn't have much more than a few stages before his body refused to recover normally. Actually, normally for a Tour rider is way beyond normal for a recreational athlete.

I wouldn't get too carried away with extrapolating from 4 km to 50 km in a TT. As I said before, lab results and various results at shorter distances or under different conditions may indicate promising results in the Hour, but the Hour is a measure in itself. It's funny how these various athletes bring all sorts of other measures to the fore to try to claim a special advantage over the other athletes, but the only true measure of performance in the Hour is the Hour itself.

As for why those numbers may not extrapolate, I'll pose just one reason: heat dissipation. In the hour, one of the most important factors is the athlete's ability to dissipate heat. In a few minutes of the 4 km, this is not nearly as much of a factor as it would be for an hour. Eddy Merckx didn't have good lab tests, and he may have been the best rider in cycling history. Those lab people told him that his heart was too small, and that because of that, he'd never amount to much in cycling. Well, we all know they were way off the mark.

It's one thing to analyze the best of the Hour Record holders' results by trying to explain with lab results why they were able to accomplish their feats. It's quite another to go from lab results to predicting the most deserving of the Hour Record. The lab people are still learning. It's not as predictive as you suggest.

 

[gntlmn]

gntlmn wrote: Those were the ones that were aerodynamically aided and later discredited.

I hate to tell you this, but Ullrich/Armstrong (the two best) in yesterdays TdF time trial and all the other TT'ers, were riding on aerobars and using aero handlebars/bikes/wheels/seatposts/helmets etc. However, I'm sure their results weren't discredited.

This entire thread is about the One Hour Record. It's not about the other events, including the Tour de France time trials. The rules are different.

When I said discredited, I was speaking in terms of the Hour Record. They were discredited because aerodynamics, if allowed to continue to be advantaged, would lead to hour records approaching 100 K, a far cry from the 50 K that is the current barrier. All you need to do to see this is to look at what they're doing with the HPV's (Human Powered Vehicles). Eddy Merckx knew that athletes who weren't nearly his caliber were breaking his record. The new UCI standards forced riders to compete on more or less even standards.

 

[wilmar13]

Sosenka used a heavier wheel. His bike weighed 9.8 kg, but the back wheel weighed 3.2 kg. His cranks were 190 mm. I'll be posting his height and weight if I can find it.

Yeah he is a big boy, his website says he is 2M tall (about 6' 7") and 80-82KG in season, and 90KG out.
http://www.sosenka.cz/profil.html

 

[gntlmn]

Our new hero fits the stereotype of the TT specialist much more than Boardman did. Boardman was short. This Czech Sosenka is very tall--2.00 m or 6'7"--and weighs 181 lb or 82 kg.

http://www.athens2004.com/en/ParticipantBiography?pid=1729272&rsc=CRM012101

 

[gntlmn]

Yeah he is a big boy, his website says he is 2M tall (about 6' 7") and 80-82KG in season, and 90KG out.
http://www.sosenka.cz/profil.html

I'm glad to see your result agrees with mine. It seems like height and weight are often listed incorrectly on the web.

 

[wilmar13]

I'm glad to see your result agrees with mine. It seems like height and weight are often listed incorrectly on the web.

He is very light for his height, but he must be one of the tallest guys in the peloton...

 

[gntlmn]

He is very light for his height, but he must be one of the tallest guys in the peloton...

I'm thinking again about the heat dissipation factor in the One Hour Record. I think this is a big factor. Consider Sosenka and Merckx, both tall guys, both very light for their heights, and both standouts in the Hour. Being tall is an advantage in the TT because the frontal surface area doesn't increase much more with height even though the rider is much taller. However, body weight becomes a big factor in dissipating heat--the lower the better without decreasing too much the lean body mass. They're going to be generating a lot of body heat as the wattage ramps up.