the power of prehop

Discussion in 'rec.sport.unicycling' started by muniracer, Apr 18, 2004.

  1. muniracer

    muniracer Guest

    today i discovered the POWER OF PREHOP! Before today my highest hop was
    78cm (just under 31") and i decided it was time to incorporate a prehop
    into my hops. After probably 15 tries, I nailed an 85cm hop (33.5"). i
    still prefer hopping with just a snap of the tire, but its nice to now I
    can add almost 3 inches with a prehop. i will continue to develope it
    to try and add more height. it felt really good nailing that jump!!!


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  2. James_Potter

    James_Potter Guest

  3. Funny you mention this. My best hop as of now is still with a pre-hop,
    but it's an old record (about a month).

    On average, my hopping height seems to be higher without a prehop than
    with, although I know I should be able to hop heigher with one. I'm just
    happy I'm not using one as much, as it makes me a more versatile trials
    rider. I still find pedalgrabs easier with a prehop, though.

    As for seat out hopping, I recently tried to jump up a threeset on my
    muni, and I found my but bottomed (no pun intended) on the tire. This
    was surprising, as I never knew I squatted so low during seat out
    hops.

    Thread jacking: Does anyone else think there's any use in jumping high
    if you only have a 1 in 20 success rate? I find that I *can* land 27",
    but not more than 5% of the time. That's kinda useless, so why bother?
    Why not get 26" down much better, before continuing on? That's what I'm
    doing now, and I like it better, because it preps me better for a real
    trials comp, where 5% is 92% less than I'd like. I find that if I
    haven't gotten my tire on the obstacle by the 10th try, it's not worth
    doing unless I'm competing. Why put consistency behind height? Shouldn't
    it be the other way around? I guess you could say that th higher you can
    hop, things get less intimidating, but who cares? I can easily ride up
    to a 32" picnic table and go for it rubber to rubber. I know I won't
    land it (heck, I'd be lucky to get all the way to the crank), but it
    still isn't intimidating.


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  4. muniracer

    muniracer Guest

    for me, when i can get a higher hop, it automatically increases my
    consistancy at lower hops. so if when my highest hop was 27 inches, i
    could get 24" consistantly, but when i got up to 30", i could get 27"s
    consistantly. so being able to hop higher just helps my technique.
    working on higher hops helps my smaller hops more than just working on
    my smaller hops. plus high hops are just plain fun. at the 2 comps ive
    been to, i have never used a hop higher than 20". comps just dont seem
    to put any emphasis on high hops. but when riding trials out and about
    i use high hops all the time. and that is the best riding, not comps.


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  5. I find myself doing more big gaps then big hops. Most of the time on a
    ride I don't ever run into a hop higher than 25" but lower than 32" (I
    don't know why). I tend to have one 18"-25" opening hop to get onto the
    rock, and then i follow with a bunch of 5'ish gaps to toher rocks. Also,
    I don't find landing big hops from nowhere to nowhere all that fun,
    compared to technical ups of only about 18". For example, I sometimes
    just practice gapping 4' to the thin edge of a 2x4, and then doing an
    18" jump to the top of a box, rather than just doing some big (for me)
    27" hop onto a box. But yes, comps don't seem to emphasize big hops that
    much, but that's not a bad thing, as there's lots more to trials than
    hopping height.


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  6. muniracer

    muniracer Guest

    i guess the thing to do is to practice with what you have around you.
    it sounds like gerble has some rocks that help him to work on gapping
    rather than hopping high. i, on the other hand, have lots of things
    that are high to hop on with not many gaps (either 4 or 5 feet or 8 feet
    or more). i have, on campus, probably 10 lines that invlove hops of
    27-34", so obviously hopping high is something i should practice if i
    want to perfect these lines. since i have very few places to practice
    gapping, i cant practice much to improve this skill. i practice with
    what i have and i have walls to hop on. i understand what gerble is
    saying about trials not just being about hopping high, but that is
    definitely one aspect of trials, and should not be ignored. comps
    should include high hops, gaps, and other technical skills. comps must
    focus on every aspect of riding.


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  7. muniracer

    muniracer Guest

    i guess the thing to do is to practice with what you have around you.
    it sounds like gerble has some rocks that help him to work on gapping
    rather than hopping high. i, on the other hand, have lots of things
    that are high to hop on with not many gaps (either 4 or 5 feet or 8 feet
    or more). i have, on campus, probably 10 lines that invlove hops of
    27-34", so obviously hopping high is something i should practice if i
    want to perfect these lines. since i have very few places to practice
    gapping, i cant practice much to improve this skill. i practice with
    what i have and i have walls to hop on. i understand what gerble is
    saying about trials not just being about hopping high, but that is
    definitely one aspect of trials, and should not be ignored. comps
    should include high hops, gaps, and other technical skills. comps must
    focus on every aspect of riding.


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  8. muniracer

    muniracer Guest

    i guess the thing to do is to practice with what you have around you.
    it sounds like gerble has some rocks that help him to work on gapping
    rather than hopping high. i, on the other hand, have lots of things
    that are high to hop on with not many gaps (either 4 or 5 feet or 8 feet
    or more). i have, on campus, probably 10 lines that invlove hops of
    27-34", so obviously hopping high is something i should practice if i
    want to perfect these lines. since i have very few places to practice
    gapping, i cant practice much to improve this skill. i practice with
    what i have and i have walls to hop on. i understand what gerble is
    saying about trials not just being about hopping high, but that is
    definitely one aspect of trials, and should not be ignored. comps
    should include high hops, gaps, and other technical skills. comps must
    focus on every aspect of riding. you also said that there is no use in
    having a high hop is it is not cinsistant. that is why you practice to
    get it consistant.


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  9. I can see that. BUT, once you have hops of 2' and up, you begin to
    quickly eliminate riders on otherwise easy lines. There aren't more than
    30 riders on this continent who could compete on a technical course with
    28" hops and over. Also, it's hard to set up a line that's 40" off the
    ground because of an opening 40" pedalgrab. Not to mention, from the
    pics I've seen, most of the bigh hop lines I've seen you do are
    perfectly pedalgrabbable, and don't need rubber to rubber. In a comp, I
    can hop 2' very consistently, but when encountered with a 24" hop, I'd
    probably go for a pedalgrab for safety. Also, I have large hops around,
    too. I can stack my boxes to 30", but my landing area is only about
    8"x18". That's not ideal when landing a 30" hop. Also, I find that it's
    much harder to find a line anywhere that has more than 8' total of
    climbing. Much more often near my house, as you've pointed out, I have
    one big hop followed by mabey 10-12 big, sometimes technical gaps. I
    have lots of fun doing this. If I scouted, i could find other spots with
    more vert, but why bother. My skill is developing perfectly quickly as
    it is. Also, from my impressions, you don't have all that much vert. You
    have a bunch of lines with a big 27" opening hop, but it doesn't seem to
    me that you've got lines where it's like you do a 2' up, then
    immediately another hop of 27". Also, in U2, didn't you notice how most
    of the trials lines were more gap than up? Trials is not all up, and
    it's stupid to make it be that. I'm also more satisfied by a technical
    16" up than some stupid 28" up. One of my favorite lines is a 12" up
    onto a rock with almost no landing space, and then immediately anothe 8"
    up onto a 4x4 sixe landing area. No big ups, just hard.

    Happy Hops :)

    P.S. When i get a digital camera, I'll try and get photos and video
    clips of my riding territory. Mike Middleton and I are already putting
    together a small video, although it'll be a while.


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  10. muniracer

    muniracer Guest

    gerblefranklin wrote:
    > *I'm also more satisfied by a technical 16" up than some stupid 28"
    > up.*



    why would anyone be satisfied with some stupid anything? basically what
    you just said is that while the stuff you ride is technial and fun, the
    stuff i do is stupid and pointless. why do you think that if its not on
    a slanted rock, its pointless? the pictures on the site are not a good
    representation of everything i ride. the pictures are from the one or
    two times i have been able to ride with someone else in the last few
    months. like i said, there is no good spot for natural trials near my
    dorm, so i guess everything i do is stupid. also, a 16" techincal up is
    not likely to require more skill than a 28" "stupid" up. Both take
    practice. But most likely, one would be able to land a techincal 16" up
    long before a "stupid" 28" up. i dont understand why you have so much
    against hopping high. since i live in a dorm and cant build a trials
    course in my backyard, as i dont have one, naturally i am going to post
    about what i can do, which in my case is hopping on walls. when i am
    not in school in dc, and home in richmond, va, there is a great spot for
    natural trials with everything you desribe, and it is fun. but while i
    am at school, i have just as much fun working on urban skills. urban
    trials rarely has a technical landing area so height is really the main
    skill required. i dont think you sould be so negative about something
    you dont like. but if thats what you are into, may i suggest you visit
    some of the bike trials forums, such as observedtrials.net. all they do
    there is insult eachother and brag non stop.


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  11. James_Potter

    James_Potter Guest

    muniracer wrote:
    > *
    > i dont understand why you have so much against hopping high.*


    I do: because he can't do it.
    Gerble, you -need- to stop flaming everyone for everything. This forum
    shouldn't be like those biker ones Muniracer is talking about.


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  12. Alright, that's reasonable. I don't have anything against hopping high,
    except for in comps when it cheats out lots of riders of a fun comp. A
    30" technical hop would probably even throw a rider of your stature. I
    know from experience that on familiar ground I can do 2-3" higher than
    on new ground. Also, I would like to point out that the big eliminator
    at TOque (or was it Motorama?) was just a bunch of 4x4s set up, without
    all that of a large hops, although both of the major competitors on it
    could do over 3'.

    As for the "stupid", I wasn't trying to insult your riding, I was
    referring to one afternoon about a month ago when I was doing hopping
    practice. I had just landed the same 25" hop 15 times in a row. I hadn't
    fallen on the hop once. Then I stepped back, and thought. I was
    satisfied, but I wasn't having fun. I liked lkanding it, but I felt it
    led nowhere. Basically, I just suddenly noticed that what I was riding
    was no longer entertaining, and I felt stupid. I don't want to rail on
    your riding, I actually admire how quickly you went from "John Glazer's
    Crazyness" to "I landed 33.5" yesterday. I really wish I could do that.
    BUT, I don't want to do that if it means only hopping next to the same
    wall for two months. I understand that a 16" technical hop will take
    less time to land, but a 28" hop feels like it's not worth the tons of
    nonstop focused work on only one thing to land.

    I still hold that a trials comp can do without a bunch of massive hops,
    though.

    Also, i guess I conveyed that I basically have a rock yard in my back
    yard, but that's not the case. My back yard is crowded with pplants, and
    even if it weren't, it's only 12-15' by 25'. Not space for a trials
    course. l have a 1/2 mile uphill ride to my rock trials spot, and it's
    on rocks 5' from a heavily travelled road where cars will go 25 without
    looking. It's also windy as hell. SO, I end up missing half my hops
    because I have to look up to see if a car was coming and get blown over.
    Not to mention, the rocks have been there for only about a month. Also,
    I only get to go there at most twice a week. My most common trials
    course is plain stupid. Your riding is amazingly varied compared to my
    riding of a few 2' boxes, some risers, and an 8' long skinny. The only
    time I get to ride outside of my neighborhood is from 8:30 to 11:30 p.m.
    on Thursday nights, which I can only do if I have friday off.

    I can sympathize to location problems. I have an hour-long commute to
    most places in town, and I have to stand with a unicycle most of the way
    (it can be turned to be an hour and a half too, because some ignorant
    bus drivers think my one-wheeled device is a bike). This limits my
    riding options, because I can't do a solo ride because if I get hurt, I
    can't wait an hour to get home. I have friends with 1/2 acre trials
    course, which I turn green with envy for whenever I think about it.

    I really now understand what you've got to ride, and in that case, I'm
    sorry for railing on it. I realy don't want another MB forum. That's all
    for now.


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  13. muniracer

    muniracer Guest

    dont worry, i wasnt offended :)

    while i do ride for fun, i also ride because it is something i am
    committed to. its more than just a hobby for me, its a sport. so
    satisfaction is just as important as fun when i ride. yes, trying a
    jump over and over until i get it is not "fun" in the true definition of
    the word, but the satisfaction i get when i make it is just as
    important. of course i dont learn to jump on the same brick wall over
    and over so i can say, "i hopped on this brick wall," i learn it so i
    can apply it elsewhere. the hop that i originally posted about was not
    at this wall, but actually as a part of a line i saw when i was just
    riding around. while the line was pretty simple, just a hop, a skinny,
    and a drop, it was a line none the less so i didnt feel i was just
    hopping from nowhere to nowhere. i dont really think trials is fun in
    the way the word implies. i think muni and freestyle stuff is fun, but
    trials is really just a test of skill. it involves fear, pain, sweat,
    and of course, joy. i ride trials for the satisfaction i get when i
    realize that my practice and skills have paid off.

    edit: oh yeah, john is my brother. he is the crazy one. i am Trip
    Glazer.


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  14. vivalargo

    vivalargo Guest

    There's clearly a curiosity about just how high guys can hop, and all
    kinds of big numbers are bandied about. Why not find out for sure?

    My suggestion for a trials competition is to borrow from the FMXers
    (Frestyle Moto Cross), who have a competition called "Step Up," where
    they simply try to clear a bar which is raised higher with each heat,
    like a high jump competition.

    Versions could be done with no prehop, with prehop, seat in and seat
    out. I used to be able to slam dunk a basketball with both hands, and
    I've gotta see the guy who can clear a 32" bar, seat in, with no pre
    hop. I ain't even remotely close to that heigth.

    JL


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  15. vivalargo wrote:
    > *There's clearly a curiosity about just how high guys can hop, and all
    > kinds of big numbers are bandied about. Why not find out for sure?
    >
    > My suggestion for a trials competition is to borrow from the FMXers
    > (Frestyle Moto Cross), who have a competition called "Step Up," where
    > they simply try to clear a bar which is raised higher with each heat,
    > like a high jump competition.
    >
    > Versions could be done with no prehop, with prehop, seat in and seat
    > out. I used to be able to slam dunk a basketball with both hands, and
    > I've gotta see the guy who can clear a 32" bar, seat in, with no pre
    > hop. I ain't even remotely close to that heigth.
    >
    > JL *



    I can bet that at least 5 people on this forum can clear a 32" bar seat
    in without a prehop, it's called a rolling hop ;) . The record is
    somewhere around 3'. Now, we're not discussing over a bar stats, as
    that's been around forever. It's an okay idea, except it has nothing to
    do with trials. The problem is that you have to clear youir pedal on the
    way down, and that lowers the max by at least 2". I can get onto a 28"
    object, but I doubt I could land 25" over a bar sidehop. I think a
    better comp would be to have a bunch of 1/2" risers and have a comp of
    high jump onto those. Then things would become a good indication of the
    average skill level and who's really the highest jumper.

    Muniracer: Firstly, I knew you were Trip, but I was referring to how you
    seemed so very humbled and amazed when John landed that, but now youcan
    do 5" more! Such a contrast!

    I agree on the hopping for prep. for later lines. I too practice hops so
    I can apply it later, but lately I've fallen down from my past average
    of 90 mins min per day. Now it's around 3 hours a week. Just because I
    don't find it as satisfying. I have lots more fun with the balance beam
    and such. Also, Potter's right, I can't hop all that heigh. I seem to
    have hit a wall where I can't get anything over 26-27" to be at all
    consistent. That means it's rather devoid of satisfaction, and I then go
    in search of more interesting and complicated trials lines. lately I've
    been very happy with strange "endurance lines", where I try and land
    8-10 large, possibly technical gaps and ups, without a dismount. It's
    hard, but very satisfying, and the learning curve seems to be rather
    steep, which, beiung an impatient youngin', I like.

    later, i'm soon to be off to ride (god I love summer, sun sets 'round
    7:00, so iut's light enough for riding up until around 7:45)


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  16. merrill

    merrill Guest

    At Motorama I noticed Ryan using two hands for some seat out ups. I'd
    never seen anyone do this before and it stuck in my mind. I didn't get
    around to trying this until a few weeks ago and guess what. It really
    helps! I added a few inches to my ups and thery are much more
    comfortable.

    Gerble, you never got around to showing me how to do a rolling hop at
    Moab! I want to learn this. I had to blast out of Moab Sunday to catch
    my plan and I forgot to ask. Maybe someone can give me some quick
    pointers here since we're on the topic jumps and hops.

    Joe


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  17. Damn! Sorry, I completely forgot! You may have noticed lots of riders
    doing it on the trail, I noticed Ryan using it to keep the flow of his
    muni going when he hit an unrollable obstacle. I saw him do a big one on
    an uphill that was cool. When doing rolling hops, the way I learned was
    to jump over sidewalk squares on my uni without stopping my riding. I
    started with small ones, then moved on to doing one of them at a time. I
    just ride quickly, and when my pedals feel right I launch and try to fly
    over the square. Now on my 24" with a fireball I can do about 2.5
    squares, just flying along and laujnching myself. I rarely ever do any
    hops after the maikn hop, unless I'm catastrophically off-balance, in
    which I'll have to hop to stay up.

    Once I could do sidewalk squares and curbs, I just tried to do height.
    Instead of throwing myself forward, I leaned back, and stopped all but
    the tiniest bit of forward motion in order to do the jump, and then I
    lift up and pike. On rolling hops like that, I always do a few
    stabilizing hops after the big one if I'm going onto an object, or, if
    I'm going over a bar or something, I find I'm usually *very* off
    balance, and need to stop and idle to get going again, because most of
    my forward motion is gone. I find that as objects get higher, the
    distance I hop onto them from also increases. On a 20" or over rolling
    hop, I'm often finding my take-off point to be at least as far from the
    object as the object is high. It helps to try to rolling hop onto stuff
    off of sidewalkcement that shows your treads. You know the stuff. When I
    do that, I'm often surprised how far away I am from the object when I
    take off. If it helps to measure your pedals, by all means, do it. I
    measure when ever I'm unsure. Other riders are aversed to it.

    As for two handed seat out, I find it's not all that helpful when going
    big. From what I understand, Ryan does it for control on slants, because
    it makes it so he can take a steeper incline before he needs to put the
    seat in. When going big seat out, often my head or shoulder is at pr
    below the level of the seat, so holding with two hands wouldn't help,
    because I wouldn't be able to pull it to the side so it could clear my
    body. So: with set up hops on inclines and technical surfaces, two
    handed can be helpful, but on big ups, it's often counter-productive.
    Your problem may be where you hold the seat. I know some riders who
    couldn't seat out very well until I showed them that they need to hold
    way back on the seat, not in front or such. If you use a KH seat, try
    holding it on the colored part.


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  18. muniracer

    muniracer Guest

    hey gerble, maybe you can give me a tip on a line im working on (im
    jacking my own thread!). it does start with a big hop but thats not
    what i am asking about. the line is a 30" hop onto a 10" wide platform
    (while it is 10" wide, it is several feet long), once i am up, i ride
    straight to the end of the platform, where i am faced with a 6' gap with
    a 28" drop onto a similar platform. sometimes i dont get all the
    distance and hit the corner, but when i make it, i usually have to
    immediately jump forward, off the platform, because i have so much
    momentum. i am hopping mostly straight forward, but with a little bit
    of an angle on my tire so i can use sideways force too. how can i land
    this gap more effectively and stay on the platform?


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  19. First I have my own question. Did you hack 2" off my boxes?!! Today I
    did my first hopping practice in about 4 days, and I was able to
    immediately, without a warm up, do 7 no-prehop 25inchers, followed by 7
    prehopped 25" hops (bear in mind, lately I've had a hard time with
    prehops). So, already I had 14 in a row without a fall yet. Then I
    raised it, and I landed 26" without a prehop first try. I got it six
    more times (with and without a prehop. I also noticed when I
    no-prehopped, I could've gone over a bar, as my tire was landing around
    7-8" onto the obj.), before I added anothe inch so it was 27". Again, I
    landed it first try-no prehop! I landed a few more with and without
    prehops, before scrubbing my tire against the side and getting crank:( .
    Then, immediately after the scrub, I landed 10 27 inchers in a row,
    alternating prehop-no prehop! Then I had to have dinner, but i can't
    believe it. I finally broke 27"! I'm really satisfied, but now I have to
    rig some new risers:( . That'll take a while.

    As for the line, I'm not all that good at gap-drops (most of my stuff is
    flat-gap-ish, and I usually land into an incline, so stopping myself
    isn't much of a problem). BUT, I ride with Mike Middleton, who's crazy!
    He landed a ~6.5' gap with less than a vertical foot of height
    difference consistently (we'll put it in our video we're making, which
    should be online in a few months)! He can hang with the bike trials guys
    on gaps, which is saying something. The guys we ride with are expert,
    and one of the just got back from Europe for some trials training camp.
    And the landing platform is only about 20" wide! Anyways, I've started
    to agree with him on gaps with a drop factor. He does it seat in,
    because it gives him exactly what it sounds like you need-stopping
    power. I find when I do flatish gaps to my balance beam andf then to a
    small paltform, I have the same problem as you. I ethier overshoot, or
    undershoot. If I scrub the edge, I land on the box, but do what you
    described, and hop off the other end. I've been working on this, but
    there's no clear solution for flat gaps.

    As for a gap with drop in it, there seems to be hope... Try it seat in,
    which I find gives much better stopping power for big gaps. You may land
    hard, but at least you'll land it (I hope). That's all i can say, try it
    seat in, and do more of a lateral gap rather than front, although I know
    it's hard, and also the tire really wants to shear off the rim. I think
    seat in is really the best idea I have, though. Try it on a fireball,
    too. Even if you miss it, it makes this cool screech. I love it for
    street, because I can gap and it makes me sound like I'm super-skilled
    and can skid:D .

    New Jacking: What tire do you use? I just was given a Monty whiteline,
    and it's not all that great. Certainly not $10 more than the luna. It's
    got a rounder profile, but the knobbies are nice for grabbing obstacles
    (that is, when I make it :) )...


    --
    gerblefranklin - Trials Unicyclist

    Don't you think it's a cruel irony that acting like a G.I. Joe in the
    army can get you a Medal, while playing with one can get you thrown out?
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    gerblefranklin's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/4295
    View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/31893
     
  20. muniracer

    muniracer Guest

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