The worst thing about the IOC positives

[kennf]

The fact there are positive tests doesn't surprise me. What continually baffles me (actually, not really) is the complete lack of anger by the pro peloton and current management. Lefevre is complaining about how long it took IOC to conduct the tests. Leipheimer is complaining about the results being announced or leaked to the press before a B test.

Where's the outrage over the doping itself? Nonexistent. As usual.

 

[doctorSpoc]

The fact there are positive tests doesn't surprise me. What continually baffles me (actually, not really) is the complete lack of anger by the pro peloton and current management. Lefevre is complaining about how long it took IOC to conduct the tests. Leipheimer is complaining about the results being announced or leaked to the press before a B test.

Where's the outrage over the doping itself? Nonexistent. As usual.

well c'mon... only the clean riders would stand up and be outraged... the silence is deafening!

 

[limerickman]

The silence is deafening...............but this doesn't take away from kennf's point.

The people who were denied their medal/placing at hte Olympics, should be screaming blue murder over this.

Riders who should have had their moment (getting their medal, standing on the podium, wtaching their national flag fly at the Olympics), were denied because someone cheated.

 

[doctorSpoc]

The silence is deafening...............but this doesn't take away from kennf's point.

The people who were denied their medal/placing at hte Olympics, should be screaming blue murder over this.

Riders who should have had their moment (getting their medal, standing on the podium, wtaching their national flag fly at the Olympics), were denied because someone cheated.

you completely miss my point... those clean cyclist you talk about don't exist... therefore there is no one to be outraged.. and this is why we have deafening silence.

a) how can you be outraged if you, yourself are also cheating and b) even if you wanted to pretend to be outraged, you don't want to **** someone off who's making their defense... in case their buddy was on your team last year and can out you or their buddy uses the same blood bank as you and can out you.

 

[limerickman]

you completely miss my point... those clean cyclist you talk about don't exist... therefore there is no one to be outraged.. and this is why we have deafening silence.

a) how can you be outraged if you, yourself are also cheating and b) even if you wanted to pretend to be outraged, you don't want to **** someone off who's making their defense... in case their buddy was on your team last year and can out you or their buddy uses the same blood bank as you and can out you.

I hear what you're saying, Doc.

And your reasoning probably does go a long way to explain the deafening silence

 

[swampy1970]

The fact there are positive tests doesn't surprise me. What continually baffles me (actually, not really) is the complete lack of anger by the pro peloton and current management. Lefevre is complaining about how long it took IOC to conduct the tests. Leipheimer is complaining about the results being announced or leaked to the press before a B test.

Where's the outrage over the doping itself? Nonexistent. As usual.

There's no outrage because it's accepted that it will happen. It's not 'shocking'.

The tests take as long as they take I guess... If everyone of off back testing samples from events like The Tour, The Olympics etc etc then it may take a while.

Levi does have a valid point - there's a written protocol on how the whole procedure should be done. People spent a lot of time putting said procedures in place and got the 'buy in' from all involved - A sample, if 'non negative' then B sample at the riders request, if that's 'non negative' then sanctions are taken and THEN the press should be notified. Those were terms that were agreed on and should really be adhered to. Plus then we would have to deal with the first round of stories where a rider's A sample was positive, then it hits the press, then we get comments from all and sundry, then the B sample results come out and we get more guff from different people. Keep it to one story per rider, damnit.

Maybe as the riders are punished by not keeping up their end of the deal (ie - doping) then those who leak the results from the labs or the applicable committee (UCI/IOC etc) should be booted too. The Press seems to think they have a right to nosey too much into peoples lives as it is... and I'm not just talking about cycling.

I'm still waiting for David Millar to give his "I'm now hollier-than-thou" speach or be asked for comment.

 

[doctorSpoc]

i think the worst thing is the fact that those who are caught, repent and work with the authorities and name names never find work in the sport ever again or are relegated to shitty continental teams (e.g. Jorg Jaschke, Patrik Sinkewitz etc)... but those that keep up the code of silence are welcome back to the highest level of the sport with loving arms, some with big contracts like Basso.. this means that riders, team management, everyone is still complicit in keeping everything on the down low... if you get busted you take it on the chin for the team and were there for your when you get out of the joint (keep up the illusion that you are the only bad apple and everyone else is ok)... this is exactly like how criminal organizations work.. the pro-cycling omerta is alive and well.

it's so wrong that the guys who do exactly as everyone says they are supposed to do when you get caught get the roughest ride? this means there is absolutely no benefit or motivation for riders to come out, cooperate and participate in ending this mess.. that's what drives me nuts... that and the fact that no one seems to see what's happening...

 

[poulidor]

In the current context of pro cycling wrt of doping, Levi has an insignifiant point, especially when we know that he knows exactly what they are doing!
The rest is tales for children.

 

[limerickman]

i think the worst thing is the fact that those who are caught, repent and work with the authorities and name names never find work in the sport ever again or are relegated to shitty continental teams (e.g. Jorg Jaschke, Patrik Sinkewitz etc)... but those that keep up the code of silence are welcome back to the highest level of the sport with loving arms, some with big contracts like Basso.. this means that riders, team management, everyone is still complicit in keeping everything on the down low... if you get busted you take it on the chin for the team and were there for your when you get out of the joint (keep up the illusion that you are the only bad apple and everyone else is ok)... this is exactly like how criminal organizations work.. the pro-cycling omerta is alive and well.

it's so wrong that the guys who do exactly as everyone says they are supposed to do when you get caught get the roughest ride? this means there is absolutely no benefit or motivation for riders to come out, cooperate and participate in ending this mess.. that's what drives me nuts... that and the fact that no one seems to see what's happening...

I agree.

That's why I suggested life bans for all riders caught doping : by legislating for a lifeban, it would make riders think twice about doping in the first place.

And your point about the likes of Basso etc is very true.

 

[kennf]

There's no outrage because it's accepted that it will happen. It's not 'shocking'.

The tests take as long as they take I guess... If everyone of off back testing samples from events like The Tour, The Olympics etc etc then it may take a while.

Levi does have a valid point - there's a written protocol on how the whole procedure should be done. People spent a lot of time putting said procedures in place and got the 'buy in' from all involved - A sample, if 'non negative' then B sample at the riders request, if that's 'non negative' then sanctions are taken and THEN the press should be notified. Those were terms that were agreed on and should really be adhered to. Plus then we would have to deal with the first round of stories where a rider's A sample was positive, then it hits the press, then we get comments from all and sundry, then the B sample results come out and we get more guff from different people. Keep it to one story per rider, damnit.

Maybe as the riders are punished by not keeping up their end of the deal (ie - doping) then those who leak the results from the labs or the applicable committee (UCI/IOC etc) should be booted too. The Press seems to think they have a right to nosey too much into peoples lives as it is... and I'm not just talking about cycling.

I'm still waiting for David Millar to give his "I'm now hollier-than-thou" speach or be asked for comment.

Damn that press! Always finding out stuff.

Is there actually a written protocal whether information can be announced before a "B" test?

 

[slovakguy]

given this latest fiasco for the sport, given the latest inane comments by leipheimer and the hog over the breaches of protocol when the press learns of a positive, given how mcquaid and pound soft pedal this issue, i am now in agreement with lim on the lifetime bans. i wish that uci and wada had set it up so that co-operation resulted in reduced punishments, but, so be it. let them all hang.

 

[whiteboytrash]

given this latest fiasco for the sport, given the latest inane comments by leipheimer and the hog over the breaches of protocol when the press learns of a positive, given how mcquaid and pound soft pedal this issue, i am now in agreement with lim on the lifetime bans. i wish that uci and wada had set it up so that co-operation resulted in reduced punishments, but, so be it. let them all hang.

It's because the UCI are accountable to no one. No one outside cycling Internet forums gives a **** if tests are covered up or if protocol is followed or not. If the UCI were voted in by cyclists & the fans then I'm sure things would be a lot different. Everytime another cyclist gets banged up the labs have to leak the results. The UCI really doesn't care for positives or if cyclists use drugs or not.

Lim is right what he says about passive Pat. He waits to see what way the wind is blowing then makes a statment to that effect. He's not anti-doping or pro-doping. It doesn't matter to him.

The only way to reign the UCI in is by the IOC. If you bar cycling then the UCI will listen.

Many who critise Pound should read his background. For a time there he was the only man to stand up to the IOC & there policy on drugs. Things have changed a lot & we can thank Pound for that.

 

[fscyclist]

you completely miss my point... those clean cyclist you talk about don't exist... therefore there is no one to be outraged.. and this is why we have deafening silence.

a) how can you be outraged if you, yourself are also cheating and b) even if you wanted to pretend to be outraged, you don't want to **** someone off who's making their defense... in case their buddy was on your team last year and can out you or their buddy uses the same blood bank as you and can out you.

Well said. If you want to find a clean cyclist, look somewhere besides pro cycling.

 

[jimmypop]

Results are leaked because positive tests have been covered up in the past. If you ask domestic (U.S.) pros who rode in the late 90s / early aughts, you'll hear tales of big riders who provided non-negative A samples which were never made public, and then non-negative B samples disappeared.

Leaks happen because it's good press, and because the governing bodies do their best to cover up the positives. It's a way of ensuring that nothing gets swept under the carpet.

 

[Eldron]

I think it's ALL a big joke - from the 8 month delay in announcing results (what do you do if the rider has won races in that time??), to the public finding out before the rider (that's just crazy), to the riders taking drugs (ala Shummy getting done TWICE for the same drug - oops), to the rider denials (Shummy is still saying he took NOTHING as is Rebellin), to the drawn out court battles (the new TdF champion was crowned before the old one was!), to pro riders being crucified in the newspaper (ala Kloden style - he probably is guilty but in the public opinion he is already a doper thanks to Bild).

The cheaters are messed up, the labs doing the checking are messed up, the people looking for the cheaters are messed up...there is no way we will ever have a clean and fair Tour de France. Or even a moderately clean and fair TdF.

Actually the TdF has got a lot better since I intentioanlly decided that ignorance is bliss. Somewhere in the back of my head I know they mostly doped up but I manage to keep it out of the concious nicely. I watch most bike races not even caring if the winner is clean - it makes it so much more enjoyable.

 

[slovakguy]

and this just in... "Giro d'Italia director Angelo Zomegnan promises there will be no room for cheats at his three-week Grand Tour, May 9 to 31." no word yet if the room of journalists erupted in sniggers after this statement.

 

[Flyer]

and this just in... "Giro d'Italia director Angelo Zomegnan promises there will be no room for cheats at his three-week Grand Tour, May 9 to 31." no word yet if the room of journalists erupted in sniggers after this statement.

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

 

[ilpirata]

A very good point!

i think the worst thing is the fact that those who are caught, repent and work with the authorities and name names never find work in the sport ever again or are relegated to shitty continental teams (e.g. Jorg Jaschke, Patrik Sinkewitz etc)... but those that keep up the code of silence are welcome back to the highest level of the sport with loving arms, some with big contracts like Basso.. this means that riders, team management, everyone is still complicit in keeping everything on the down low... if you get busted you take it on the chin for the team and were there for your when you get out of the joint (keep up the illusion that you are the only bad apple and everyone else is ok)... this is exactly like how criminal organizations work.. the pro-cycling omerta is alive and well.

it's so wrong that the guys who do exactly as everyone says they are supposed to do when you get caught get the roughest ride? this means there is absolutely no benefit or motivation for riders to come out, cooperate and participate in ending this mess.. that's what drives me nuts... that and the fact that no one seems to see what's happening...

 

[Flyer]

A very good point!

dddddddddddddddddddddddddd

 

[Bike N Ski]

Actually the TdF has got a lot better since I intentioanlly decided that ignorance is bliss. Somewhere in the back of my head I know they mostly doped up but I manage to keep it out of the concious nicely. I watch most bike races not even caring if the winner is clean - it makes it so much more enjoyable.

Don't pretend to be ignorant Eldron, you're the wise one here. While the others arrogantly think that they could stop cheating if they where the Sheriff in town, the reality is that cheating has gone on in one form or another since man first started competing with each other. I'm also glad to see that there's at least one other poster that enjoys bike racing around here.