The worst thing about the IOC positives



Leafer

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Apr 11, 2006
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Bike N Ski said:
Don't pretend to be ignorant Eldron, you're the wise one here. While the others arrogantly think that they could stop cheating if they where the Sheriff in town, the reality is that cheating has gone on in one form or another since man first started competing with each other. I'm also glad to see that there's at least one other poster that enjoys bike racing around here.
I guess if the farcical, cartoonish, pro-wrestling type of cycling is what you like, then I can see your point about doping. Me, personally, I prefer real cycling. And if you think that today's doping is the same as yesterdays doping and so nothing has changed, well then you're an idiot.
 

hoggy

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Oct 25, 2006
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what amazes me is Hans Holczer from the old Gerolsteiner team is still claiming to be let down by his riders even after 3 have now been found guilty (ok 2.5 till the B sample is confirmed) Even more amazingly no one seems to be questioning his stance that he had no idea that his top riders were on the juice. :rolleyes:
 

whiteboytrash

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Mar 9, 2005
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hoggy said:
what amazes me is Hans Holczer from the old Gerolsteiner team is still claiming to be let down by his riders even after 3 have now been found guilty (ok 2.5 till the B sample is confirmed) Even more amazingly no one seems to be questioning his stance that he had no idea that his top riders were on the juice. :rolleyes:

I'd go as far to say that once the clean influence of Levi left the team they all decended into rampent drug use.
 

Bike N Ski

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May 4, 2005
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Leafer said:
I guess if the farcical, cartoonish, pro-wrestling type of cycling is what you like, then I can see your point about doping. Me, personally, I prefer real cycling. And if you think that today's doping is the same as yesterdays doping and so nothing has changed, well then you're an idiot.

You guessed wrong(no surprise for someone who can't get his head around the simple realities of the world). Today's speeding is faster than yesterday's speeding, but I'm sure the implication is only understood by us idiots.
 

Flyer

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Sep 20, 2004
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Bike N Ski said:
You guessed wrong(no surprise for someone who can't get his head around the simple realities of the world). Today's speeding is faster than yesterday's speeding, but I'm sure the implication is only understood by us idiots.
sssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss
 

kennf

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Jan 29, 2004
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And still, Flyer is so stupid he doesn't realize he's bumping a current thread.
 

scirocco

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Feb 16, 2007
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hoggy said:
what amazes me is Hans Holczer from the old Gerolsteiner team is still claiming to be let down by his riders even after 3 have now been found guilty (ok 2.5 till the B sample is confirmed) Even more amazingly no one seems to be questioning his stance that he had no idea that his top riders were on the juice. :rolleyes:
Why are you amazed? That's perfect management technique, as operated by millions of the most sucessful companies today. Credit for the successes must always be seen as evidence of strong leadership, but failures must always be seen as random, non-systemic aberrations by rogue individuals who snuck under the radar. In cycling, get Phil Liggett to help with a comment or two about "bad apples" and your career is safe.
 

Flyer

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Sep 20, 2004
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scirocco said:
Why are you amazed? That's perfect management technique, as operated by millions of the most sucessful companies today. Credit for the successes must always be seen as evidence of strong leadership, but failures must always be seen as random, non-systemic aberrations by rogue individuals who snuck under the radar. In cycling, get Phil Liggett to help with a comment or two about "bad apples" and your career is safe.
sssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss
 

Leafer

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Apr 11, 2006
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Bike N Ski said:
You guessed wrong(no surprise for someone who can't get his head around the simple realities of the world). Today's speeding is faster than yesterday's speeding, but I'm sure the implication is only understood by us idiots.
Sorry, dude, but the doping of today is not your fathers doping, nor is it equitable for all riders. The "but its a level playing field because they're all doping" is bunkum when EPO and blood boosting are involved - the new generation of doping has completely twisted the sport, not just made it faster.

In real cycling, skinny little climbers don't win flat time trials, big, heavy flatland classics riders don't win the toughest mountain stages of the Tour, and so on. They do in your cycling, of course. I can see the attraction of that, mind you. But it sure as hell isn't real - it's caricature at best, a cartoon.
 

Bike N Ski

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May 4, 2005
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Leafer said:
Sorry, dude, but the doping of today is not your fathers doping, nor is it equitable for all riders. The "but its a level playing field because they're all doping" is bunkum when EPO and blood boosting are involved - the new generation of doping has completely twisted the sport, not just made it faster.

In real cycling, skinny little climbers don't win flat time trials, big, heavy flatland classics riders don't win the toughest mountain stages of the Tour, and so on. They do in your cycling, of course. I can see the attraction of that, mind you. But it sure as hell isn't real - it's caricature at best, a cartoon.

Don't be sorry man. Your missing the point. Again, cheating to gain a competitive advantage has been going on since man first competed. It doesn't make it any more or less equitable whether it's today's doping or my father's doping. Luckily, I don't get coverage of the same races you watch where a skinny little climber wins a flat time trial against the world's best TTs. Nor have I ever seen a classics rider beat the world's best climbers on a mountain stage. Of course I've seen very talented GC's come out and play during Grand Tours and beat specialist at their game. But that's more a function of form and tactics, all other things being equal.
 

ilpirata

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Aug 19, 2004
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Leafer said:
Sorry, dude, but the doping of today is not your fathers doping, nor is it equitable for all riders. The "but its a level playing field because they're all doping" is bunkum when EPO and blood boosting are involved - the new generation of doping has completely twisted the sport, not just made it faster.

In real cycling, skinny little climbers don't win flat time trials, big, heavy flatland classics riders don't win the toughest mountain stages of the Tour, and so on. They do in your cycling, of course. I can see the attraction of that, mind you. But it sure as hell isn't real - it's caricature at best, a cartoon.
I am with you it is definitely not equal. But the top teams have better internal programs that are a step ahead of the antidoping. Also I am curious to see if at the Giro there will be equitable testing with the new protocols, because with Sella and Ricco last year finishing and passing all tests at the giro and then caught by the testing of others after the giro, the giro organizers lose a lot of respect.

Not they had any with me since 1999.
 

Leafer

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Apr 11, 2006
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Bike N Ski said:
Don't be sorry man. Your missing the point. Again, cheating to gain a competitive advantage has been going on since man first competed. It doesn't make it any more or less equitable whether it's today's doping or my father's doping. Luckily, I don't get coverage of the same races you watch where a skinny little climber wins a flat time trial against the world's best TTs. Nor have I ever seen a classics rider beat the world's best climbers on a mountain stage. Of course I've seen very talented GC's come out and play during Grand Tours and beat specialist at their game. But that's more a function of form and tactics, all other things being equal.
Apparently in your cycling world, Roberto Heras really was a world-class TT'er in long, flat TT's, Schumacher really was the best TT'er in the Tour, and George Hincapie really could win the toughest mountain stages.

Like I said, a cartoon.