The Zapper?



> I would like to add that these people who engage in this
> anti-semitic verbiage

What anti-Semitic verbiage?

also seem to have low self esteem and have not been
> successful in life or in their careers. They are basically
> failures in life. Instead of taking responsibility for
> their own shortcomings

they> blame a group of people for keeping them down.

Oh go on with yourself. You don't say? What about us blaming
the Jews for killing Christ. You forgot to throw that in
there too.

>
> This is exactly the kind of thinking that led to the
> holocaust. It is fascinating how many of the alties in
> this group are a microcosm of the events of Nazi Germany.

Rich needs help reeeeaaallll baaaaadddd.

>
> Also the failure of many of the alties to speak out
> against this bigotry mimics the failure of many of the
> German people to speak out>
against it. Perhaps both the Germans and the alties (who are
silent)> fear the reprisals if they do speak out against it.

Cue Rich to go ahead and call us Nazis?

>
> In the case of the Germans they feared being killed or
> imprisoned. In>
the case of the alties they may fear what Jan and others may
do to try> to discredit them here and in their personal
lives since they have
> demonstrated an all too willing tendency to intrude on
> people's personal lives by posting personal info and
> contacting employers.

Please name names and incidents and dates of this supposed
intrusions into other's private lives by Jan and other's
you've mentioned?

And> like Nazi Germany there are a few brave souls who are
And> willing to speak>
out against bigotry and anti-semitism. The good thing about
having JD> here is that it becomes clear who in the group
has integrity.

It's crystal clear that you don't have much Rich.

GEEEEEETTT HEEEEELLLLLPPPPPPP
 
"Orac" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:eek:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, "RB"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > "Orac" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:eek:rac-A7F399.20492811032004@news4-
> > ge1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net...
> > > In article <[email protected]>, "RB"
> > > <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > It shouldn't have anything to do with anyone's
> > > > opinion of
alternative
> > > > medicine
> > >
> > > Correct. So why do alties like you or Jan keep
> > > bringing up religion
when >
> > attacking their opponents?
> >
> > Because shouldn't IS different than does. It does make a
> > difference in
that
> > apparently as far as can be told by this NG atheists and
> > Jews disbelieve
and
> > eagerly try to debunk alternative medicine.
>
> I am neither an atheist nor a Jew. As such, I find it
> continually puzzling why Jan (or you or other alties) are
> so quick to go on the attack when you perceive someone to
> be a Jew.
===================
What attack?
=====================

The only explanation I can > come up with is that there is
indeed a strain of anti-Semitism among all > too many alties
who post here, Jan and DEBBEE in particular. This is not >
entirely surprising, given the tendency of alties to adhere
to various > conspiracy theories about the "suppression" of
alt-med and also given> that anti-Semites tend to embrace
enthusiastically the granddaddy of all > conspiracy
theories, that of the "international Jewish conspiracy."
=========================
Any anti-Semitism that I would have if I had any would be
limited solely to the Jews on this board.

What is this "international Jewish conspiracy"?
===========================
 
In article <[email protected]>,
"RB" <[email protected]> wrote:

> "Mark Probert-March 12, 2004" <Mark Probert03-12-
> [email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...

> >A person who does this cannot possibly be considered to
> >be a >believer in
> Judaism.
>
> Judaism is just Jewish nationalism.

********. ZIONISM is Jewish nationalism. Judaism is a
religion.

>Any Jew can be considered to be a believer in Judaism, even
>Jewish believer's in Jesus.

Nope.

>The religion of non Christian Jews is Zionism.

No, you have it exactly backwards. Zionism is Jewish
nationalism. Judaism is the religion.

[Snip]

--
Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
|
|"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do
|you inconvenience me with questions?"
 
"Kim" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "RB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > <Rich.@.> wrote in message
> > > It is truly despicable when one fleeces a helpless
> > > victim of cancer out of every last penny they have.
> ==============
> > Who does that? Does Hulda Clark do that? How does she
> > do that?
>
> She seems to do it by making empty promises to her
> victims. By convincing them only SHE has the answer to all
> disease. That only SHE can see these large parasites that
> cause "all disease." Desperate, suffering, gullible and
> dying people believe her. That's what scammers and Quacks
> depend on. They depend on "ignorance and desperation" most
> of all. She knows they'll soon be deceased and of no
> problem to her such as filing a lawsuit. Although I don't
> know why the families of the scammed don't sue her.
> Perhaps that's why she's down in Mexico and not here in
> the states.
>
> > > It is truly a shame that the zapper could not rid the
> > > world of parasites like Hulda Clark. We would all be
> > > better off without despicable parasites like HC.
>
> > Because you don't have "Proof" that the Zapper does
> > work
>
> She makes the claim it works. The burden of proof is on
> HER, not on her victims and potential victims.
>
> then wouldn't you
> > also say that you don't have proof that it doesn't?
>
> The proof it doesn't work is the lack of all those *cured*
> of their
cancers,> lupus, scleroderma, osteoporosis, mental
illnesses, arthritis, phlebitis,> bursitis, chronic
bronchitis, cystic fibrosis, cystic ovaries.....

Do you have a list of those who tried it and found it
didn't work? May we see it?

> The burden of proof to> > prove it doesn't work rests on
> those who loudly
proclaim it doesn't work.
>
> Said like a true ignoramus.

So are you a Jew? Are you so ashamed of being a Jew?

> --
> Kim Please note, I don't wish to get involved in any
> personal conflicts between the posters here.

I'm simply looking for answers.

What answers?

> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 
In article <[email protected]>,
Peter Bowditch <[email protected]> wrote:

> Orac <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >I am neither an atheist nor a Jew. As such, I find it
> >continually puzzling why Jan (or you or other alties) are
> >so quick to go on the attack when you perceive someone to
> >be a Jew. The only explanation I can come up with is that
> >there is indeed a strain of anti-Semitism among all too
> >many alties who post here, Jan and DEBBEE in particular.
> >This is not entirely surprising, given the tendency of
> >alties to adhere to various conspiracy theories about the
> >"suppression" of alt-med and also given that anti-Semites
> >tend to embrace enthusiastically the granddaddy of all
> >conspiracy theories, that of the "international Jewish
> >conspiracy."
>
> Here's something I wrote about this on The Millenium
> Project.
>
> Quackery correlates with bigotry? (21/2/2004)
>
> I participate in an online discussion forum about
> alternative medicine. Like many of these groups there are
> many people who appear on an irregular basis or just
> appear once or twice, there is a group of lurkers (which
> may include the irregular correspondents) who just read
> and watch, and a small group who contribute regularly. In
> this case there would be about 20 people who would
> normally post at least once each week, and this group is
> about equally divided into what I will have to call "Us"
> and "Them".
>
> Recently there has been much discussion about a bigoted
> remark made by one of the "Them" group, and this
> discussion has divided on party lines. The solidarity (on
> one side at least) has been remarkable. Every regular
> participant in the "Us" group has had something to say
> about the evils of bigotry, in this case anti-Semitism.
> From the "Them" side there has been silence (this is not
> sinister in a couple of cases of people who are single-
> issue campaigners and who never enter discussions on any
> other topic), attempts to redefine "anti-Semitism" to make
> the offence go away, denial of any problem at all,
> escalation of the taunts to include atheists as well as
> Jews, misquotes from the Bible, a review of The Passion of
> the Christ, claims that charges of bigotry are attempts to
> stifle free speech, wisps of holocaust denial, and more.
> One classic was a person who claims to be Jewish who
> couldn't see anything wrong with what her friend had said
> but who accused another Jewish person of promoting anti-
> Semitism by protesting about it! (This was not actually
> surprising as she hates that person so much that she would
> attack him for saying that Sunday follows Saturday.) What
> nobody on that side would do is apologise for what was
> said or offer any criticism of the person who said it.
>
> Admittedly the sample is small, but I find it informative
> that people who believe in science and real medicine will
> argue amongst themselves about all sorts of things but are
> unanimous on something like religious and racial bigotry,
> but the other side seems prepared to defend anything said
> by one of their side even when presented with cogent
> arguments against it. I think the essence of this
> difference is the need for and acceptance of evidence. One
> side wants evidence and rejects claims which do not have
> testable support (and bigotry is an exemplar of belief
> without evidence) and the other side rejects evidence,
> accepts anecdote and says "prove it isn't so". Sometimes
> the gulf just looks too wide.

An excellent summary.

Sadly, after having been a regular here for several months,
I am coming reluctantly to the conclusion that bigotry (and
especially anti-Semitism) is distressingly common among
alties. I suspect that the anti-Semitism flows from alties'
conspiracy-mongering, coupled with the association of Jews
with medicine (the stereotypical "Jewish doctor," for
instance). If alties associate Jews with medicine and
associate conventional medicine with a "conspiracy" to
"suppress" their "alt-med" beliefs, it is only a small step
to blame Jews for the "suppression" of alt-med and drift
into anti-Semitic beliefs.

--
Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
|
|"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do
|you inconvenience me with questions?"
 
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] wrote:

> How the lies continue to flow:

Really. Then show me an example of a single altie
criticizing Jan for her blatantly anti-Semitic remarks.

>
> Peter Bowditch <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > Admittedly the sample is small, but I find it
> > informative that people who believe in science and real
> > medicine will argue amongst themselves about all sorts
> > of things but are unanimous on something like religious
> > and racial bigotry, but the other side seems prepared to
> > defend anything said by one of their side even when
> > presented with cogent arguments against it.

--
Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
|
|"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do
|you inconvenience me with questions?"
 
In article <[email protected]>,
"RB" <[email protected]> wrote:

> "Orac" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:eek:rac-175AE9.12564713032004@news4-
> ge1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net...
> > In article <[email protected]>, "RB"
> > <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > > "Orac" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:eek:rac-A7F399.20492811032004@news4-
> > > ge1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net...
> > > > In article <[email protected]>,
> > > > "RB" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > > > > It shouldn't have anything to do with anyone's
> > > > > opinion of
> alternative
> > > > > medicine
> > > >
> > > > Correct. So why do alties like you or Jan keep
> > > > bringing up religion
> when >
> > > attacking their opponents?
> > >
> > > Because shouldn't IS different than does. It does make
> > > a difference in
> that
> > > apparently as far as can be told by this NG atheists
> > > and Jews disbelieve
> and
> > > eagerly try to debunk alternative medicine.
> >
> > I am neither an atheist nor a Jew. As such, I find it
> > continually puzzling why Jan (or you or other alties)
> > are so quick to go on the attack when you perceive
> > someone to be a Jew.
> ===================
> What attack?

You obviously haven't been reading Jan's posts, in which she
calls people "Jew boy," and asserts that Jews are misled by
Satan. She also states that all Jews are liars (except for
her one favored Jew, Ilena, apparently because Ilena is a
sister altie).

> The only explanation I can > come up with is that there is
> indeed a strain of anti-Semitism among all > too many
> alties who post here, Jan and DEBBEE in particular. This
> is not > entirely surprising, given the tendency of alties
> to adhere to various > conspiracy theories about the
> "suppression" of alt-med and also given> that anti-Semites
> tend to embrace enthusiastically the granddaddy of all >
> conspiracy theories, that of the "international Jewish
> conspiracy."
> =========================
> Any anti-Semitism that I would have if I had any would be
> limited solely to the Jews on this board.

Are you really that ignorant, or do you have to work at it?
You're perfectly free to dislike people on this newsgroup,
but when you attribute your dislike of them to their
belonging to a specific religion or ethnic group, you
espouse bigotry.

> What is this "international Jewish conspiracy"?

Try this:

http://www.internationaljewishconspiracy.com/

--
Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
|
|"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do
|you inconvenience me with questions?"
 
"Kim" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "RB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Has the technology behind the Zapper been disproven?
> > Post such proof please.
> ==============
> The total and complete lack of people who were cured of
> their cancers and>
other chronic or terminal illnesses is proof alone! What
more proof would> one need?

So where's your list and are you a Jew?

> --
> Kim Please note, I don't wish to get involved in any
> personal conflicts between the posters here. I'm simply
> looking for answers.
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 
"Kim" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "RB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > You should at least be neutral until it's been proven
> > not to work,
which
> > it hasn't.
> ==============
> The complete LACK of all her cured patients is proof
> enough that it does
not> work.

So where's your list?

> --
> Kim Please note, I don't wish to get involved in any
> personal conflicts between the posters here. I'm simply
> looking for answers.
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 
"Kim" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "RB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
> > No So Dim,
>
> Why do I get the feeling you're not only ant-Semitic but
> also anti-Asian?

Because you're anti-Christian. Anti-Christian people feel
that way about Christians. It comes from their own vile
biases and prejudices that they condemn Christian's for
having. It's your vomit.

>
> it was a good analogy of what happened then regarding
> new ideas
> > is happening right now here on this NG with you guy's
> > trying to debunk
the
> > new ideas, treatments and methodologies of alt medicine.
>
> Clark's Zapper is not NEW. It's had time to prove itself
> with miraculous cures - it hasn't.

Well what do you think of Chelation Therapy then?

> --
> Kim Please note, I don't wish to get involved in any
> personal conflicts between the posters here. I'm simply
> looking for answers.
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 
Orac <[email protected]> wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] wrote:
>
> > How the lies continue to flow:
>
> Really. Then show me an example of a single altie
> criticizing Jan for her blatantly anti-Semitic remarks.

Do a google search under my name and check out the first
two - three pages of entries which were in actual threads
(not single posts). Any or all of them. It was reading
the prejudice, and seeing a need for it to be addressed,
which caused me to begin posting, more than any "alt
health" question.

> > Peter Bowditch <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >
> > > Admittedly the sample is small, but I find it
> > > informative that people who believe in science and
> > > real medicine will argue amongst themselves about all
> > > sorts of things but are unanimous on something like
> > > religious and racial bigotry, but the other side seems
> > > prepared to defend anything said by one of their side
> > > even when presented with cogent arguments against it.
 
"RB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Name those churches please. Be specific and actually name
> them. So are you
a
> Jew?
====================
I'm dead. You had a funeral for me 2 posts ago - remember?
--
Kim Please note, I don't wish to get involved in any
personal conflicts between the posters here. I'm simply
looking for answers.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 
"Gymmy Bob" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I can produce enough juice from a 9 volt battery to fry
> your brain. I have seen ot throw people against the wall
> so until you know something about getting shocks you
> better find a better excuse to doubt the gadget.
==============================
Where *ARE* all the people she cured? I mean those with
verifiable disease from both before and after paying
thousands at her Tijuana clinic for zappings? No mention on
any websites as to where they all are, their lab reports,
tests, if they're alive or dead - nothing!
--
Kim Please note, I don't wish to get involved in any
personal conflicts between the posters here. I'm simply
looking for answers.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 
"RB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> It's crystal clear that you don't have much Rich.
>
> GEEEEEETTT HEEEEELLLLLPPPPPPP

---SNIP

Another moronic juvenile post by RB, He makes plain to
everyone that he sees nothing *wrong* with anti-Semitic
posts. Pathetic.
--
Kim Please note, I don't wish to get involved in any
personal conflicts between the posters here. I'm simply
looking for answers.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 
"Orac" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:eek:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] wrote:
>
> > How the lies continue to flow:
>
> Really. Then show me an example of a single altie
> criticizing Jan for her blatantly anti-Semitic remarks.
==========================
Not one did. Not one! By their silence they AGREE with her.
--
Kim Please note, I don't wish to get involved in any
personal conflicts between the posters here. I'm simply
looking for answers.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 
"RB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Do you have a list of those who tried it and found it
> didn't work? May
we
> see it?

Do you have the list of people it did work on? After
wasting almost an hour trying to locate any information on
anyone she actually cured or saved, we came up empty
handed. Yes, my friend was here and she's a whiz at
ferreting out information on the net - even she couldn't
locate any such information. Where are all Clarks
successfully cured patients?

> So are you a Jew? Are you so ashamed of being a Jew?

So you're anti-Semitic as well as the other alts here?
Explain why you're anti-Semitic. When did you first notice
the symptoms of anti-Semitism?

--
Kim Please note, I don't wish to get involved in any
personal conflicts between the posters here. I'm simply
looking for answers.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 
"Peter Bowditch" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Kim" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Anth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >news:[email protected]...
> >> Why did her brother die despite being treat by her for
> >> cancer if she
has a
> >> 100% cure for cancer?
> >=====================
> >
> >I wonder what her success rate is for lightening people's
> >wallets and
bank
> >accounts?
>
> If everything goes right for her it can exceed 100% for an
> individual victim.
>
> http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles/comment/escrow.htm
========================
Good grief! Well they couldn't get slimier than that if they
tried. And yet her followers see nothing wrong in this....
amazing! Well, like that Quack that played Dr and ripped
people off - he felt since they were dying anyway he may as
well get as much of their money as he could lay his hands
on. They're soulless, uncaring, self-serving blood suckers.
Truly *parasites* feeding on the gullible and desperate.
--
Kim Please note, I don't wish to get involved in any
personal conflicts between the posters here. I'm simply
looking for answers.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 
"RB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> I'm simply looking for answers.
> What answers are you looking for?
===================================

I've asked them several times already. I give up! I wont
find them here.
--
Kim Please note, I don't wish to get involved in any
personal conflicts between the posters here. I'm simply
looking for answers.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 
"Kim" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Orac" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:eek:rac-455733.23240013032004@news4-
> ge1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net...
> > In article <[email protected]>,
> > [email protected] wrote:
> >
> > > How the lies continue to flow:
> >
> > Really. Then show me an example of a single altie
> > criticizing Jan for her blatantly anti-Semitic remarks.
> ==========================
> Not one did. Not one! By their silence they AGREE
> with her.

You were there??

There are two to three google pages of THREAD links, each
containing a number of my posts at that time, which prove
your statement very wrong.

Why are you saying that, and why were you reading at the
time but not posting, if you feel so strongly about it?
 
"RB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> So where's your list and are you a Jew?
===============================
Why do you ask? What is your motive? Why do you care? Is
this a religious NG?

Where is your list of those she saved?
--
Kim Please note, I don't wish to get involved in any
personal conflicts between the posters here. I'm simply
looking for answers.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 
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