There's much more than drunk drivers that need to be controlled



T

Turby

Guest
On Sat, 30 Sep 2006 05:10:12 -0700, Dane Buson <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Turby <[email protected]> wrote:
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> "Tim Kreitz" <[email protected]> >>wrote:
>>>
>>>>Any number of studies and stats can be googled that show how in areas
>>>>where highway speed limits are higher, per-capita fatalities are LOWER.
>>>>Germany, Italy, and (until recently) Montana are all good examples,
>>>>just for starters.
>>>
>>>HAHAHAHA. Don't start in with that nonsense again. The issue was
>>>settled back in 1974 when america went to the 55 and immediately
>>>highway deaths plumetted.

>>
>> The safest roads in America are Insterstate highways - they are also
>> the roads with the highest average speeds.

>
>I think it has rather more to do with the fact that Interstate highways
>have the lowest number of intersections of any typing of driving one
>does.


Of course, but the bottom line is that _speed_ is not the prime factor
in safety.

--
Turby the Turbosurfer
 
D

donquijote1954

Guest
BE wrote:
> That's right, what passes for safety these days is nothing more than
> accident survival.
>
> The emphisis needs to return to accident prevention and the enforcement of
> lane integrity laws.


Maybe it ought to be included in Homeland Security if we want to see
anything happening in the near future. As a matter of fact, zigzaging
SUVs with drivers glued to their phone amount to terrorism.
 
D

donquijote1954

Guest
Jim Higson wrote:
> donquijote1954 wrote:
>
> > (passing on the right, something unheard of in Europe)

>
> Funny, I thought the UK was in Europe.
>


Not anymore. Now it's the 51st state.
 
D

donquijote1954

Guest
PeterD wrote:
> On Thu, 28 Sep 2006 16:19:25 -0400, "BE" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >That's right, what passes for safety these days is nothing more than
> >accident survival.
> >
> >The emphisis needs to return to accident prevention and the enforcement of
> >lane integrity laws.
> >

>
> ANd we can put that emphisis on just AFTER we get rid of the SPAMMERs
> such as the original poster who is just flogging his books.


Sure. If you even deny there's a problem, can you ever fix it?

I think you are related to the ostrich.
 
D

donquijote1954

Guest
P.Roehling wrote:
> "Nate Nagel" <[email protected]> wrote
>
> > The correct solution is to not have left exits and to enforce lane
> > discipline laws, and then this discussion will be irrelevant.

>
> Gee, if only the world were perfect...but it isn't, and never will be; which
> means that such arguments will remain relevant for the foreseeable
> future...or until whenever humanity becomes extinct.


It ain't so much about dying in one or another anonymous accident, but
about being terrorized. Some call it "road terrorism."
 
D

donquijote1954

Guest
donquijote1954 wrote:
> There's much more than drunk drivers that need to be controlled. It's
> the whole system that needs to be changed. The License to Kill given to
> absolute beginners, the lack of lane discipline (passing on the right,
> something unheard of in Europe), the reckless talk on the phone, the
> driving of monster vehicles with raised bumpers that can kill above the
> protection area of any other car, the insurance companies that fail to
> make those guilty ones pay for every loss they cause, and so many other
> areas in which the government and organizations such as Mothers Against
> Drunk Drivers are totally indifferent.
>


What got me ****** is an email I received from a friend. It made me
sick to stomach not only because it was gross, but because it's one of
those acts in which the people always blame someone else (terrorists or
the drunkard in this case) instead of facing their own responsibility
(their phone use, for instance). It's part of the hypocrisy we all live
under...

http://www.helpjacqui.com/home.htm

I'm adding my thoughts here to something I came across: "In a society
where truth is so camouflaged and avoided," the li-on hunter (read lie
hunter) is the most honest profession.
 
D

donquijote1954

Guest
P.Roehling wrote:
> "Nate Nagel" <[email protected]> wrote
>
> > The correct solution is to not have left exits and to enforce lane
> > discipline laws, and then this discussion will be irrelevant.

>
> Gee, if only the world were perfect...


In the meantime let people drink and drive and kill and be merry. Why
bother, the world ain't perfect...
 
T

Tom Keats

Guest
In article <[email protected]>,
"donquijote1954" <[email protected]> writes:
>
> Jim Higson wrote:
>> donquijote1954 wrote:
>>
>> > (passing on the right, something unheard of in Europe)

>>
>> Funny, I thought the UK was in Europe.
>>

>
> Not anymore. Now it's the 51st state.


I thought the 51st state was The Moon.

Which might be right, after good 'ol
Wyoming, in some ways. Except there's
more oxygen in Wyoming.

Better scenery, too. Less NASA and USSR
junk lyin' around.

You can drive any way ya want on The Moon,
as long as nobody's comin' at'cha.

Maybe it's more-or-less the same in Wyoming.

Maybe The Moon should be an extension of
Wyoming. Just don't send horses there until
there's a viable NO2/O2 atmosphere.


--
-- Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca
 
D

donquijote1954

Guest
Speeders & Drunk Drivers are MURDERERS wrote:
>
> Yes indeed, the automotive industy encourages reckless driving because
> they make a fortune off replacing all the cars totalled in crashes
> every year. And the media is paid to go along with it by carrying all
> these sick commercials that glorify speeding and by referring to all
> crashes as accidents.
>
> The highway murder problem is the biggest crime problem in america and
> the most correctable Stop coddling these deadly speeders and DUIs and
> phone-drivers.


You should run for office instead of that (what's her name) Hillary
Clinton. Well, be ready to run without a chance because without money
you don't have a chance, and the insurance companies won't back you up.
:(

AIG Political Contributions by Subsidiaries Questioned in N.Y.
September 21, 2006

Major corporations based in New York such as American International
Group Inc. have legally contributed many times more than the corporate
limit to political candidates who regulate their businesses, state and
good-government officials said.

In the case of AIG, the insurance giant is limited to giving $5,000
(euro3,951) to a candidate. But the parent company used 33 subsidiaries
in recent years to give $335,000 (euro264,738) to three-term Republican
Gov. George Pataki; $50,000 (euro39,513) to Attorney General Eliot
Spitzer, the Democratic front-runner for governor; and $25,000
(euro19,757) to Democratic Comptroller Alan Hevesi, according to The
New York Times.

"That happens all the time,'' said Rachel Leon of New York-Common
Cause, which for years has lobbied to reform this and other campaign
finance practices.

"It's just one of the many loopholes that make our campaign finance
laws meaningless,'' she said. "We might as well not have any limits
because in the real world, they don't apply.''

http://www.insurancejournal.com/news/east/2006/09/21/72628.htm
 
D

donquijote1954

Guest
Tim Kreitz wrote:
> Speeders & Drunk Drivers are MURDERERS wrote:
> > Lane integrity laws.??

>
> That's right.
>
> You see, enforcing lane discipline and eliminating tailgating in the
> States would demonstrate that highway speed limits are largely
> unneccesary -- but the cops and politicians don't want that. After all,
> safer highways mean less revenue for the government. Instead, they
> allow unskilled nincompoops in 6,000-pound SUVs to drive like the
> inattentive morons they are, nabbing them in droves for going 5-over at
> $150 a pop. Easy money.
>
> Any number of studies and stats can be googled that show how in areas
> where highway speed limits are higher, per-capita fatalities are LOWER.
> Germany, Italy, and (until recently) Montana are all good examples,
> just for starters.


You are even better as a candidate. The answer is not repression but
rewarding of the good drivers who happen to be fast. Of course, SUVs
over 70mph get a hefty ticket. ($500 for starters)

Or maybe we should abandon any hopes of having a good candidate and
annex this country to Europe the way it once was (and apply its laws)
in the name of globalization and a New World Order. The globalization
trend we follow in China's path is not very good, in my opinion. ;)
 
E

Ed H.

Guest
I thought Puerto Rico was the 51st state.

"donquijote1954" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
> Jim Higson wrote:
>> donquijote1954 wrote:
>>
>> > (passing on the right, something unheard of in Europe)

>>
>> Funny, I thought the UK was in Europe.
>>

>
> Not anymore. Now it's the 51st state.
>
 
L

Ludmila Borgschatz-Thudpucker, MD

Guest
"PeterD" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
> Repeat after me: you cannot merge on the highway with your foot on the
> brake. You have to be going the same speed, (or slightly faster) to
> merge, if you slow down, (and then eventually stop) you can't merge.


No, no, no. Here's how you merge. First, you MUST be talking on your
hand-held cellphone. Follow the car ahead of you on the on-ramp as closely
as possible. DO NOT, under ANY circumstances, even so much as glance into
the lane into which you are about to merge. After all, you have the
right-of-way, and cars already in the lane into which you and your
bumper-to-bumper butt-buddies are merging are obligated to move to their
left to let you in, regardless of whether it is safe to do so.

This is the way it is done in Minneapolis-St. Paul, where a quiz on rules of
the road actually found that a majority of respondents actually believe that
through traffic is obligated to make way for merging traffic.
 
J

Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman

Guest
PeterD wrote:
> On Fri, 29 Sep 2006 06:13:39 GMT, Speeders & Drunk Drivers are
> MURDERERS <[email protected]> wrote:
> >Stop coddling these deadly speeders and DUIs and phone-drivers.

>
> Yea, and make stepping on the brakes in the merge lanes a felony. You
> can't merge on a highway with your foot on the brake!


Yes you can, if you are going significantly faster on the entrance ramp
that the traffic in the right lane. This situation is common during
congested periods where the traffic on the controlled access road is
moving significantly SLOWER than the speed limit.

--
Tom Sherman - Here, not there.
 
P

PeterD

Guest
On 30 Sep 2006 13:07:35 -0700, "Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
>PeterD wrote:
>> On Fri, 29 Sep 2006 06:13:39 GMT, Speeders & Drunk Drivers are
>> MURDERERS <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >Stop coddling these deadly speeders and DUIs and phone-drivers.

>>
>> Yea, and make stepping on the brakes in the merge lanes a felony. You
>> can't merge on a highway with your foot on the brake!

>
>Yes you can, if you are going significantly faster on the entrance ramp
>that the traffic in the right lane. This situation is common during
>congested periods where the traffic on the controlled access road is
>moving significantly SLOWER than the speed limit.


Well, Jonny or Tom or whoever... Since you are supposed to accelerate
to the speed of the traffic on the road.

The eventual outcome of slowing down is stopping.

Just what one old IDIOT did to me in Boston some years ago. Slammed on
his brakes at the merge because he was afraid! I almost rear ended
him, did pass him on the right (wrong by law, but the option was a big
bang, body damage and probably injury) and still was able to merge on
the highway. Without stopping. Without slowing down!
 
M

Matthew Russotto

Guest
In article <[email protected]>,
n5hsr <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Bob" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]
>> n5hsr wrote:
>>>
>>> Or the law about doing more than 20 over the limit is a felony. If
>>> that's
>>> so, then 99.999% of the drivers on the TriState Tollway are felons,
>>> because
>>> the average speed most of the time is nearer 80 than 55. I've seen some
>>> days when it hit closer to 90, and even the right lane is going 75-80.
>>>
>>> Charles of Schaumburg

>>
>> If such an Illinois law existed you could be closer to being right than
>> wrong. Unfortunately for your hyperbole however, there is no such law.
>> I can only guess that you are referring to the "fleeing to elude
>> police" statute in which case you should stop quoting the law until you
>> actually *read* it.
>>
>> Try- http://www.law.cornell.edu/states/illinois
>>
>> Regards,
>> Bob Hunt
>>

>
>1. Page doesn't link.
>
>2. I have a friend who just happens to be a State Policeman who told me
>about it. Either he's lying to me (very doubtful) or he was lied to by his
>superiors.


He's a cop, cops lie. His boss is a cop, cops lie. You're a
semi-anonymous Usenet poster repeating a friend-of-a-friend story...

http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs.asp

65 ILCS 5/11-601.5 says that doing 40 over is a class A misdemeanor.
--
There's no such thing as a free lunch, but certain accounting practices can
result in a fully-depreciated one.
 
J

Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman

Guest
PeterD wrote:
> On 30 Sep 2006 13:07:35 -0700, "Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >
> >PeterD wrote:
> >> On Fri, 29 Sep 2006 06:13:39 GMT, Speeders & Drunk Drivers are
> >> MURDERERS <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> >Stop coddling these deadly speeders and DUIs and phone-drivers.
> >>
> >> Yea, and make stepping on the brakes in the merge lanes a felony. You
> >> can't merge on a highway with your foot on the brake!

> >
> >Yes you can, if you are going significantly faster on the entrance ramp
> >that the traffic in the right lane. This situation is common during
> >congested periods where the traffic on the controlled access road is
> >moving significantly SLOWER than the speed limit.

>
> Well, Jonny or Tom or whoever... Since you are supposed to accelerate
> to the speed of the traffic on the road.


Imagine the following. An entrance ramp that starts out about 20 feet
lower in elevation than the controlled access road (not uncommon where
the street that the ramp connects the controlled access road passes
under the controlled access road). In addition to this difference, the
controlled access road has a 4 foot high concrete barrier wall at the
edge of the shoulder (also not uncommon).

If one accelerates up the entrance ramp at a normal rate for a modern
automobile, the traffic on the controlled access road can not be seen
until one is traveling 40-60 mph (depending on the exact rate of
acceleration and relative heights of the vehicles). Now if that traffic
is moving slower than that speed due to congestion, should one brake to
match speeds and merge, or not brake and crash into the slower moving
vehicles?

Please tell me, since I encounter this exact situation almost every
week day.

> The eventual outcome of slowing down is stopping.


Really? One can not slow to a speed faster than not moving, and
maintain that speed?

--
Tom Sherman - Here, not there.
 
D

donquijote1954

Guest
Ludmila Borgschatz-Thudpucker, MD wrote:
> "PeterD" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
> >
> > Repeat after me: you cannot merge on the highway with your foot on the
> > brake. You have to be going the same speed, (or slightly faster) to
> > merge, if you slow down, (and then eventually stop) you can't merge.

>
> No, no, no. Here's how you merge. First, you MUST be talking on your
> hand-held cellphone. Follow the car ahead of you on the on-ramp as closely
> as possible. DO NOT, under ANY circumstances, even so much as glance into
> the lane into which you are about to merge. After all, you have the
> right-of-way, and cars already in the lane into which you and your
> bumper-to-bumper butt-buddies are merging are obligated to move to their
> left to let you in, regardless of whether it is safe to do so.
>
> This is the way it is done in Minneapolis-St. Paul, where a quiz on rules of
> the road actually found that a majority of respondents actually believe that
> through traffic is obligated to make way for merging traffic.


I've seen another tendency out there. The smaller vehicle yields to the
bigger one irrelevant of right or wrong. Very similar to the Law of the
Jungle. Which is why many people consider bigger vehicles a necessity
for survival.
 
D

donquijote1954

Guest
[email protected] wrote:
> Speeding isn't necessarily dangerous - inattentive driving is. Speed
> makes the consequences of an accident worse, but it rarely causes
> accidents. Cops could prevent many more accidents if they stopped
> targeting speeders and started giving tickets to people who change
> lanes without signaling, drive in the left lane and don't move over for
> traffic behind them, prevent others from mergin in front of them, eat
> and drink while driving, talk on the phone, fiddle with the radio,
> etc., etc.
>
> Of course this is much harder than sitting in a speed trap with the
> radar gun, and would bring in less ticket revenue.


Right. It's all about money and not right and wrong. Anything that
costs peanuts is not important...

RIDING A BIKE COSTS PEANUTS

OK, since the lion (for whom "peanuts" is not important) refuses to
listen to the monkey asking for bike facilities,* let's scrutinize the
secrets ($$$) of the political jungle, where "democracy" is the
word of choice...

"Remember the Golden Rule: Those with the Gold, Rule" (saying)

"The Best Democracy Money Can Buy" (title of book)

And this one...

"Freedom is when the people can speak, democracy is when the government
listens" -Alastair Farrugia

Oh, that one was so good. So let's see: The monkey can cry all he wants
but he will be ignored. Tough life that of the monkey.

Other quotes...

"Great is truth, but still greater, from a practical point of view, is
silence about truth" -Aldous Huxley

That one was deep. We all live in the lie (notice the word "lie" in
li-on). And look at this one...

"The most common way people give up their power is by thinking they
don't have any" -Alice Walker

And this would threaten the order in the jungle...

"Democracy is when the indigent, and not the men of property, are the
rulers" -Aristotle

And here they must be talking about the lion...

"The wild, cruel beast is not behind the bars of the cage. He is in
front of it" -Axel Munthe

Many more quotes to entertain yourself are found at the link below. I
hope you use them responsibly and don't start a revolution.

http://www.democracy.ru/english/quotes.php

*Riding a bike is good for the environment, great for peace, and
excellent for your health. We need facilities, though, like BIKE LINES
to be safe.
 
D

donquijote1954

Guest
[email protected] wrote:
> Speeding isn't necessarily dangerous - inattentive driving is. Speed
> makes the consequences of an accident worse, but it rarely causes
> accidents. Cops could prevent many more accidents if they stopped
> targeting speeders and started giving tickets to people who change
> lanes without signaling, drive in the left lane and don't move over for
> traffic behind them, prevent others from mergin in front of them, eat
> and drink while driving, talk on the phone, fiddle with the radio,
> etc., etc.
>
> Of course this is much harder than sitting in a speed trap with the
> radar gun, and would bring in less ticket revenue.


Right. It's all about money and not right and wrong. Anything that
costs peanuts is not important...

RIDING A BIKE COSTS PEANUTS

OK, since the lion (for whom "peanuts" is not important) refuses to
listen to the monkey asking for bike facilities,* let's scrutinize the
secrets ($$$) of the political jungle, where "democracy" is the
word of choice...

"Remember the Golden Rule: Those with the Gold, Rule" (saying)

"The Best Democracy Money Can Buy" (title of book)

And this one...

"Freedom is when the people can speak, democracy is when the government
listens" -Alastair Farrugia

Oh, that one was so good. So let's see: The monkey can cry all he wants
but he will be ignored. Tough life that of the monkey.

Other quotes...

"Great is truth, but still greater, from a practical point of view, is
silence about truth" -Aldous Huxley

That one was deep. We all live in the lie (notice the word "lie" in
li-on). And look at this one...

"The most common way people give up their power is by thinking they
don't have any" -Alice Walker

And this would threaten the order in the jungle...

"Democracy is when the indigent, and not the men of property, are the
rulers" -Aristotle

And here they must be talking about the lion...

"The wild, cruel beast is not behind the bars of the cage. He is in
front of it" -Axel Munthe

Many more quotes to entertain yourself are found at the link below. I
hope you use them responsibly and don't start a revolution.

http://www.democracy.ru/english/quotes.php

*Riding a bike is good for the environment, great for peace, and
excellent for your health. We need facilities, though, like BIKE LINES
to be safe.
 
P

PeterD

Guest
On 30 Sep 2006 16:43:20 -0700, "Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman"
<[email protected]> wrote:


>
>If one accelerates up the entrance ramp at a normal rate for a modern
>automobile, the traffic on the controlled access road can not be seen
>until one is traveling 40-60 mph (depending on the exact rate of
>acceleration and relative heights of the vehicles). Now if that traffic
>is moving slower than that speed due to congestion, should one brake to
>match speeds and merge, or not brake and crash into the slower moving
>vehicles?
>
>Please tell me, since I encounter this exact situation almost every
>week day.
>


Sadly, the answer is obvious. If you are going too fast, slow down. Of
course. But that's not the problem:

What is sadder is that I see all the time drivers coming down the
merge lane, at 10 to 20 MPH *LESS* than the traffic, and hit the
brakes.

I've learned that if you are going the speed of the highway traffic it
is most rare that you can't merge. If you are going faster, it is
difficult to merge, but experience at the particular ramp can help
with this. But if you are going slower then it is *IMPOSSIBLE* to
merge, and hitting the brakes only makes things worse.

I usually drive a truck. If I see a car trying to merge, and
accelerating I'll do everything I can possibly do to help that driver
get in. But if the brake lights flash on, all bets are off--there's
nothing I can do. I can't slow down (way too unsafe), usually speeding
up isn't an option. Often times, moving over (especially if I"m in a
slower truck) doesn't (usually) always work.