Thin washer with new cassette?



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R

Ryan Cousineau

Guest
I just bought an HG-70 (105) 8v 13-26 cassette. It included a very thin washer or spacer (I didn't
measure it, but think 0.1 mm or so) which was between the lockring and the 13t cog.

What is this? Am I actually supposed to leave it there when I put this cassette on?

--
Ryan Cousineau, [email protected] http://www.sfu.ca/~rcousine President, Fabrizio Mazzoleni Fan Club
 
M

Menno

Guest
Washers are to prevent the bolt (=lockring) from loosening itself due to vibration. That's the
purpose of this one too. Why would you leave it out?

Menno

"Ryan Cousineau" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I just bought an HG-70 (105) 8v 13-26 cassette. It included a very thin washer or spacer (I didn't
> measure it, but think 0.1 mm or so) which was between the lockring and the 13t cog.
>
> What is this? Am I actually supposed to leave it there when I put this cassette on?
>
> --
> Ryan Cousineau, [email protected] http://www.sfu.ca/~rcousine President, Fabrizio Mazzoleni Fan Club
 
R

Ryan Cousineau

Guest
In article <[email protected]>, "Menno"
<[email protected]> wrote:

> "Ryan Cousineau" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > I just bought an HG-70 (105) 8v 13-26 cassette. It included a very thin washer or spacer (I
> > didn't measure it, but think 0.1 mm or so) which was between the lockring and the 13t cog.
> >
> > What is this? Am I actually supposed to leave it there when I put this cassette on?

> Washers are to prevent the bolt (=lockring) from loosening itself due to vibration. That's the
> purpose of this one too. Why would you leave it out?
>
> Menno

'Cos I've never seen a cassette with such a washer (between the lockring and the small cog) before.
Both the lockring and the small cog have very distinctive teeth cut into them, and it looked like
the washer would interfere with the mating of those teeth.

-RjC.

--
Ryan Cousineau, [email protected] http://www.sfu.ca/~rcousine President, Fabrizio Mazzoleni Fan Club
 
G

Grenouil

Guest
"Ryan Cousineau" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I just bought an HG-70 (105) 8v 13-26 cassette. It
included a very thin
> washer or spacer (I didn't measure it, but think 0.1 mm or
so) which was
> between the lockring and the 13t cog.
>
> What is this? Am I actually supposed to leave it there
when I put this
> cassette on?
>
> --
> Ryan Cousineau, [email protected]
http://www.sfu.ca/~rcousine
> President, Fabrizio Mazzoleni Fan Club

Ryan - are you asking about a spacer that's supposed to go between the small sprocket and the next
smallest? Measure the thickness of the small sprocket that came with the cassette - it's probably
only 4.0 to 4.2mm thick if it's like the one I just got with a seven speed HG-70. My guess is that
Shimano are selling a nine speed small sprocket with some seven/eight speed cassettes, and including
the spacer for those applications.......
 
J

Jobst Brandt

Guest
Ryan Cousineau writes:

>>> I just bought an HG-70 (105) 8v 13-26 cassette. It included a very thin washer or spacer (I
>>> didn't measure it, but think 0.1 mm or so) which was between the lockring and the 13t cog.

>>> What is this? Am I actually supposed to leave it there when I put this cassette on?

>> Washers are to prevent the bolt (=lockring) from loosening itself due to vibration. That's the
>> purpose of this one too. Why would you leave it out?

> I've never seen a cassette with such a washer (between the lockring and the small cog) before.
> Both the lockring and the small cog have very distinctive teeth cut into them, and it looked like
> the washer would interfere with the mating of those teeth.

The same question arose for me when I changed the sprockets on a cassette hub. The washer is made of
soft steel and deforms only slightly if the locknut is tightened forcefully. I tossed it out because
it negates the function of the face spline on nut and last sprocket. Retention of the locknut is
reduced by this washer and I suspect that was the intension because people could not remove the
locknut, many not having the special tool to do so. Using a screwdriver to do this is possible with
the soft washer in place.

I found the splined lock nut a great invention when it was introduced, removing the need for great
force with an ungainly "chain whip" to unscrew the smallest sprocket that formerly acted as locknut.

Jobst Brandt [email protected] Palo Alto CA
 
J

Jobst Brandt

Guest
Ryan Cousineau writes:

>>> I just bought an HG-70 (105) 8v 13-26 cassette. It included a very thin washer or spacer (I
>>> didn't measure it, but think 0.1 mm or so) which was between the lockring and the 13t cog.

>>> What is this? Am I actually supposed to leave it there when I put this cassette on?

>> Washers are to prevent the bolt (=lockring) from loosening itself due to vibration. That's the
>> purpose of this one too. Why would you leave it out?

> I've never seen a cassette with such a washer (between the lockring and the small cog) before.
> Both the lockring and the small cog have very distinctive teeth cut into them, and it looked like
> the washer would interfere with the mating of those teeth.

The same question occurred to me when I changed the sprockets on a cassette hub. The washer is made
of soft steel and deforms only slightly if the locknut is tightened forcefully. I tossed it out
because it negates the function of the face spline on nut and last sprocket. Retention of the
locknut is reduced by this washer and I suspect that was the intention, because people could not
remove the locknut, many not having the special tool to do so. Using a screwdriver to do this is
possible with the soft washer in place.

I found the splined lock nut a great invention when it was introduced, removing the need for great
force with an ungainly "chain whip" to unscrew the smallest sprocket that formerly acted as locknut.

Jobst Brandt [email protected] Palo Alto CA
 
B

Benjamin Weiner

Guest
Grenouil <[email protected]> wrote:

> Ryan - are you asking about a spacer that's supposed to go between the small sprocket and the next
> smallest?

He's actually asking about a very thin washer, ~0.1-0.2mm, that is under the lockring.

>Measure the thickness of the small sprocket that came with the cassette - it's probably only 4.0 to
>4.2mm thick if it's like the one I just got with a seven speed HG-70. My guess is that Shimano are
>selling a nine speed small sprocket with some seven/eight speed cassettes, and including the spacer
>for those applications.......

Some Shimano cassettes are bolted together and have 3 little bolt heads sticking out of the second
to smallest cog. The ~1mm spacer you are thinking of can be used to space the smallest cog out so it
is tightened down on the washer, not the bolt heads.
 
S

Squid-In-Traini

Guest
"Benjamin Weiner" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> Grenouil <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
> > Ryan - are you asking about a spacer that's supposed to go between the small sprocket and the
> > next smallest?
>
> He's actually asking about a very thin washer, ~0.1-0.2mm, that is under the lockring.
>
> >Measure the thickness of the small sprocket that came with the cassette - it's probably only 4.0
> >to 4.2mm thick if it's like the one I just got with a seven speed HG-70. My guess is that Shimano
> >are selling a nine speed small sprocket with some seven/eight speed cassettes, and including the
> >spacer for those applications.......
>
> Some Shimano cassettes are bolted together and have 3 little bolt heads sticking out of the second
> to smallest cog. The ~1mm spacer you are thinking of can be used to space the smallest cog out so
> it is tightened down on the washer, not the bolt heads.

No, no no! This is a crush washer designed to allow for easier removal of the lockring, not to
mention better corrosion protection. This washer DOES deform a lot, and it's only meant to be used
once or twice. Use it!

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training
 
J

Jobst Brandt

Guest
Phil who? writes:

>>> Ryan - are you asking about a spacer that's supposed to go between the small sprocket and the
>>> next smallest?

>> He's actually asking about a very thin washer, ~0.1-0.2mm, that is under the lockring.

>>> Measure the thickness of the small sprocket that came with the cassette - it's probably only 4.0
>>> to 4.2mm thick if it's like the one I just got with a seven speed HG-70. My guess is that
>>> Shimano are selling a nine speed small sprocket with some seven/eight speed cassettes, and
>>> including the spacer for those applications.......

>> Some Shimano cassettes are bolted together and have 3 little bolt heads sticking out of the
>> second to smallest cog. The ~1mm spacer you are thinking of can be used to space the smallest cog
>> out so it is tightened down on the washer, not the bolt heads.

> No, no no! This is a crush washer designed to allow for easier removal of the lockring, not to
> mention better corrosion protection. This washer DOES deform a lot, and it's only meant to be used
> once or twice. Use it!

There is no corrosion problem and, as you say, it makes the locknut unscrew more easily, just what I
don't want. The design is fine the way it is. Let's not screw it up just for the klutzes who don't
know what "tight enough" is. I see we are getting back to "don't grease crank spindles" syndrome.

Jobst Brandt [email protected] Palo Alto CA
 
B

Benjamin Weiner

Guest
Phil, Squid-in-Training <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Benjamin Weiner" <[email protected]> wrote:

> > He's actually asking about a very thin washer, ~0.1-0.2mm, that is under the lockring.

> > Some Shimano cassettes are bolted together and have 3 little bolt heads sticking out of the
> > second to smallest cog. The ~1mm spacer you are thinking of can be used to space the smallest
> > cog out so it is tightened down on the washer, not the bolt heads.

> No, no no! This is a crush washer designed to allow for easier removal of the lockring, not to
> mention better corrosion protection. This washer DOES deform a lot, and it's only meant to be used
> once or twice. Use it!

Argh. Read what I said. I explained to the previous poster that two different types of washers were
being discussed.

Rec.bicycles.*, where as somebody said, they'll correct you even when you aren't wrong.
 
G

Grenouil

Guest
"Benjamin Weiner" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> Phil, Squid-in-Training <[email protected]>
wrote:
> > "Benjamin Weiner" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > He's actually asking about a very thin washer,
~0.1-0.2mm, that
> > > is under the lockring.
>
> > > Some Shimano cassettes are bolted together and have 3
little
> > > bolt heads sticking out of the second to smallest cog.
The ~1mm
> > > spacer you are thinking of can be used to space the
smallest cog
> > > out so it is tightened down on the washer, not the
bolt heads.
>
> > No, no no! This is a crush washer designed to allow for
easier removal of
> > the lockring, not to mention better corrosion
protection. This washer DOES
> > deform a lot, and it's only meant to be used once or
twice. Use it!
>
> Argh. Read what I said. I explained to the previous
poster
> that two different types of washers were being discussed.
>
> Rec.bicycles.*, where as somebody said, they'll correct
you
> even when you aren't wrong.
>

Yeah - and thanks - all the small sprockets I'd seen previously have three slots to provide
clearance for the bolts/rivets that hold the largest sprockets together. I had not realized that the
supplied spacer on my new cassette was for the same purpose.......
 
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