Thinking about buying a steel frame road bike

[Froze]

So what happens if by chance the CF frame breaks in say South America, can he find a welder who can repair it?

Ok, so you want to post sites about how strong CF is, well here's a few:

http://newsomelaw.com/blog/2013/05/22/carbon-fiber-bikes-may-be-susceptible-sudden-failure/
https://janheine.wordpress.com/2012/03/15/frames-going-soft/
http://bikeretrogrouch.blogspot.com/2013/10/carbon-forks-no-way.html
http://www.tomsarazac.com/tom/opinions/frame-test.html

 

[Froze]

That first video you showed shows a guy taking baby wacks at CF, he's barely hitting it.
Here is a anvil drop test, actually the CF doesn't do too bad if you only look at the baseline BUT if you look at the tube after the hit it is damaged beyond rideability whereas the cromoly steel is rideable, see:

This is cool:

 

[CAMPYBOB]

BUT if you look at the tube after the hit it is damaged beyond rideability whereas the cromoly steel is rideable, see:

If you would actually ride that bent and dented steel tube it would only prove you were insane. I have a cell phone. I'm calling my wife-friend-bike-shop-lawyer for a ride home.

Funny. When my Colnago broke it was unrideable and junked for a new one. My bud's Motobecane was stashed in the weeds while he walked to a phone for a ride...pre-cell phone days when carbon was pretty much limited to the Exxon bikes. None of my three Pinarello's that took hits were rideable...remember the picture I posted of me holding the frame and front wheel of the the blue 1984 Treviso?

Now that 'sideways' TREK that was so far out of alignment that it crab'd down the road? THAT one was rideable. If you didn't mind everyone following behind to laugh at it.

I really don't give two ***** about some dumb frame taking a hit and then throwing a leg over it. That's irrelevant. And even if I were moronic enough to tour across Nigeria during whatever insurgent infestested civil war they were celebrating their next decade with...'if' my bike broke I sure as hell would NOT be tracking down some native 'blacksmith' to attempt a repair or paying an illiterate pipeline welder to try and splice my .025" wall thickness chainstay back together.

Sorry. I'm banging on some bongos like a chimpanzee too get ahold of the ooga booga equivalent of uber and buying another Chinese POS bike and continuing my trek to find Dr. Stanley.

Seriously. If carbon bikes really were as delicate as you say they are the court system would be clogged with litigation and the CPSC would have to hire an afternoon shift to handle the flood of recalls. Lawyers would suddenly be employable again. Your television would be awash with ads from personal injury lawyers seeking the business of the thousands and thousands of cyclists that were considering filing civil suits.

Bill McCready of Santana fills the staterooms of the cruise ships for his luxury tours with doctors, lawyers and Indian chiefs aboard his high zoot carbon tandems...which easily carry the weight of of the well fed doctor, his well fed wife and their totally unnecessary, but highly impressive, extra clothing and electronic gear.

No lawsuits among the $15k to $20K per tour crowd either. And I'm pretty sure they know all the really good attorneys.

Admit it. Carbon is rock solid, suitable for everything from professional road racing to mountain biking to touring. Track bikes, road bikes, tandems...carbon is THE standard for bicycle frame comparison in every catagory. It's lighter than steel. It's stronger than steel. It outlasts the uber light weight steel frames. The ride can be tuned from bone shaking stiff to round Titanium plush and everything in between.

 

[JSESKI]

Campybob & Froze, I'm thoroughly enjoying the discussion and points being made, agree with both of you on some, different opinion on others. But can appreciate the experience and viewpoint of each of you... (once again CB, "banging on some bongos...marine Dr. Stanley." bwahahaha, brilliant!). I'm glad I stumbled on this site, truly enjoyit so far. Thnx, guys.

Anyway - you've both made excellent points - but I'm going to stick to my belief that every material can be a great bike. The quality of the material (good steel vs cheaper steel; good cf vs cheap cf; thin walled aluminum vs thick), the design (geometry, shape of tubing), and the build quality (welds, heated treated/not) are the bigger factors in this discussion when it comes to bikes. I'd take certain steel builds over a carbon fiber using low grade cf any day. But I know that the ride-ability of high end quality cf bikes are easier to be mass produced with identical attributes and have the perfect ride qualities - light, stiff where you want good power transfer to the road, supple/absorbing where you want the frame to eat road vibrations up to the contact points.

Yet in a crash, certain materials simply have a stronger tensil strength. That's why I feel more comfortable with certain frame material for my mtb or cyclecross bike than I do a road bike (more apt to crash, especially if I'm pushing it).

Pro cyclists aren't paying for their rides and can appreciate a pack of steeds they can choose from that all ride identical & are crazy high performance. I pay for my bikes and don't feel like tossing a couple to a few grand out the window cause I crashed & when my bike hit ______ it buckled/cracked and now it's worth less than a duck dynasty t-shirt.

For an average rider or a newbie to the sport, IMO buying a good used steel or aluminum frame is better than getting a low-end carbon. Better ride characteristics. But that also doesn't mean there aren't some steel or aluminum p.o.s.'s out there too. It all depends on the bike - make, make-up, condition.

Back in the day when I worked in a shop, we had plenty of guys that tried to warranty then sue the company for f'd up frames. We rarely ever had a Cannondale road bike come in (lower # of crashes I'd guess), but Cannonfail mountain bikes, as we called them, had a dozen people each year that came cause they were JRA ("just ridin along"), when actually they endo'd and the bike fell onto a stump or whatever & now they had a massive crease in their top tube or the stays were misaligned to the point the bike just arced to the right as you rode. No lawsuit, the bike was built to ride, not withstand any particular level of crash. Bike owner is SOL, buying a new frame or quitting riding.

I always look for frame material durability (in addition to the ride qualities i want) when I buy a mtb bike, a road bike...not as big of a concern.

 

[Froze]

CampyBob; if a CF frame cracked instead of denting like a steel bike would you're right you can't ride the CF bike any longer, but with the steel bike you could easily ride it back home and not call someone to get you. Also like I mentioned for touring, if you crack a CF frame somewhere you're buying a new frame assuming where your at has frames of any material available, but with steel even a drunk with a welder which is going to be a lot easier to find then a new frame, can get you up and going if a steel frame cracked.

I never said that CF was delicate, what I said (or meant to say) was under certain conditions they are indeed more delicate than steel. This why certain types of damage that steel would laugh at will cost you a frame with CF, scrapping type of accidents are fatal to CF (remember the days when chain suck would saw through a chain stay?), I had a friend who's 5 year old daugher went into the garage and while goofing around knocked his roughly $6,000 CF Bianchi over and the top tube hit a bench vise which cut the C fibers and the bike shop totaled the bike (this was before CF repair places started to pop up). Also, and you know this, you have to be really careful about torque values of anything made of CF or you'll stand the risk of crushing CF and experiencing rapid failure of the part; on that same note I can take my index finger and thumb and squeeze hard enough to cause a frame tube to give...not give in all the way, but it does give, and anytime a CF part gives like that it puts undue stress on the fibers and could break some of the fibers which could eventually lead to failure. Of course under certain circumstance a high quality CF bike may be better at damage prevention than a high quality steel bike, however after such an event with the CF bike it is highly recommended by ALL CF manufactures that you have the bike inspected professionally.

I wrote an email to FSA concerning how often should a CF seatpost be replaced and here is the text of that letter:

Hi Froze,

I cannot give you a set timeline on how often to replace parts as riding style, frequency, and conditions are too varied to say “This post will last X number of years”.

I can tell you that these are lightweight race components. They do have a lifespan, and do need to be maintained/check regularly. We have some people on the same post for 10 years, we have some guys that break them and I have no idea how… it all depends on the rider.

I will say that carbon components should be replaced more often than aluminum, and 3-5 years is reasonable estimate, but I do not have an actual timeline for you.

Patrik

Patrik Zuest

Technical support

Full Speed Ahead/Gravity/Vision

I also wrote an email to Giant concerning what they do with their previous season racing mtb's which I can't find now, but in essence what they said was that a couple of bikes are given to each team member, one for back up, after about 1/2 the season is gone they switch to the back up and deregulate the first one to the back up position because of the potential the CF frame is beginning to go soft, at the end of the seasons all bikes are returned back to the factory where they are put through a series of tests including E-Ray and one other test which I can't recall, if a bike is found to have even the slightest bit of damage it is crushed, any found to be fine are sold as used bikes; they also said if a bike is crashed there is a very high chance the bike will be crushed.

JSESKI

I agree with you to a point, the really high end CF racing bikes are very thin walled tubing, those are strictly recommended for professional racing and not for everyday riding, but a lot of wealthy people buy them for everyday riding purposes. A pro race team gets their bikes for free so if a bike gets damaged one way or another, or a new season begins, it's simply replaced, most of us here can't afford that luxury.

I hear you about working in a shop, my LBS mechanic said that he would never buy a CF bike after working at that LBS for the last 10 years, but he did admit he's the odd one out, but that's only because the rest of the employees do fast group riding and some race so they want the lightest bike they can get, but while my mechanic does do fast group rides he doesn't race nor does he care about whether or not he's on some high end carbon bike to garnish attention with the group or at the pub. He liked my Lynskey so much he was looking at them on the internet to figure out which one he wanted to buy for this next season after I let him ride it for awhile.

 

[CAMPYBOB]

"if a CF frame cracked instead of denting like a steel bike would you're right you can't ride the CF bike any longer,"

You're full of ****, Froze. When my Wilier Izoard XP cracked at the Right rear dropout / chainstay it was ridden for at least three weeks more just to see if I could grow the crack. Despite continuing to jump RR tracks and train hard miles on **** roads...it did NOT asplode. It didn't even get any larger.

Wilier mailed me a new frameset. Yay me! I rule!


"but with the steel bike you could easily ride it back home and not call someone to get you."

Brother, did you ever see a steel Motobecane do a complete 360 degree downtube separation right at the brazed on shift lever bosses? You know...the ones drunk assed Pierre over-heated with the torch because Frenchie QC was always about non-existent? Yeah...you ride that one home. I dares ya to. I'll follow at a safe distance.


" Also like I mentioned for touring, if you crack a CF frame somewhere you're buying a new frame assuming where your at has frames of any material available, but with steel even a drunk with a welder which is going to be a lot easier to find then a new frame, can get you up and going if a steel frame cracked."

All yours pal! I'm calling the insurgent with the technical. At least I can shoot the twin PKM's mounted in the bed while we drive out of Injun Country and towards the local bike dealers in Kinshasa. You go ahead and try explaining to Mooboosi Obongo...in your best pigeon Swahili...that your separated bottom bracket just needs a touch of jungle love.

I'll be waiting in the bar at Rick's Cafe in Casablanca, with Bogie, for ya. Drinking cold ones while discussing the latest carbon stuff the only retro morons still eschew the use of because they skerred. That reminds me! Time to renounce technology again and send in my annual dues to the Luddite Club of Ohio, Amish Chapter No. 666.

Maybe you better stop worrying like an old mother hen about carbon...along with that moron, Retrogrouch...and start worrying about contracting Zika or beriberi or Ebola or Polio in these exotic lands where new bicycles can not be had for love or the swap of a Kalashnikov. What's in your wallet? Oh...that's right. No money to pay the illiterate welder dude. Cz you're not only a retro grouch. You're a tightwad retro grouch and that probably explains your penchant for cheap steel and shitmaNO. Es verdad, si?

One last point that has repeatedly sailed over your pointy little retro head. Any carbon failure can be ersatz repaired by being epoxied back together, repaired with fiberglass repair materials and even some of the better body fillers or Obongo can duck tape some Oooga Booga wood to the tubes for the ride back to where people have actually seen these magical 2-wheeled things. But, I'll leave that riding up to you.

Here's laughing at you, kid.

 

[CAMPYBOB]

There's this guy I want you to meet.

His name is Narrow. Narrow Quintana.

He's a little dude. Maybe you heard of him? He's from this third world country in South America...called something like, "Columbian" or something like that. You might find it odd, but you know...those dudes got cell phones...McDonald's...all kinds of fancy **** like that! Anyway, this little guy just won some big bike race in Spain...something like the Velvet of Espania Race. Anyway, it's like a big deal and he beat this English doper type dude and a Spanish bigshot that like to eat steak dinners and like 200 other dudes on asthma meds or something.

And this Narrow guy does all this on carbon fiber everything! He's like a movie star or something!

And here's the kicker! You know you can even buy some carbon fiber bikes like that one and **** there?!?! Right there in his little backward country in Southern America. It's true! And they got these like shipping companies and stuff that can get them to you from like Beijing or Peking or Mandarin Duck in like just a day or two! All on the other side of the equator! Who knew? Right? It's all we knew was da FARC or bananas or blow came from there!

All while you rest up from your Jungle Love World Tour after you broke your Surly Lot Lizard Trucker on a descent from Atahualpa's Bed & Breakfast Retreat and soak in these...I know you're going to find this hard to believe!...HOT TUBS on the side of a mountain! Oy! What a view! You can look down below and watch these tiny little climber dudes gain like 4000 meters of elevation without even breathing hard! Something to do with eating chocolate or cocoa or something like that. And having Inca uncles and ****.

Anyway, I'm not going where the natives shrink your skull or nothing so I'm all good with the carbon stuff. And so is like 99.5% of the known non-retro world of people under the age of 60. My crankset is carbon...my brake levers are carbon...my pedals are carbon...my derailleurs are carbon...my fork is carbon...my seatpost is carbon...my saddle shell is carbon...the soles of my shoes are carbon...my micro pump is carbon...my race wheels are carbon...my helmet is reinforced with carbon...

Tell me again why my frame should not be made of carbon? Seriously...it's because I'm old...right? And I need to wear like a wool Molteni jersey and crochet gloves and ****. Right? I'm freaking out those kids on my carbon Chicom racer, right?

 

[Froze]

Here's laughing at you, kid.

I wasn't going to get nasty and say what I'm about to say but since you fired the first shot so here I go.

I don't believe your BS stories!! I've seen cheap steel bikes crack and were ridden like that for not just days but in one case over a year! And I've never heard of a cracked CF frame that was safe to ride except for seat stays which really aren't needed and rarely break anyways. You're so pro CF you make up these stories so people will buy CF, which is fine but made up stories aren't needed to that.

Just so you know, because obviously you don't know, a HUGE percentage of touring bikes are made of STEEL, the least percentage is carbon fiber and most of those credit card it...that ain't no where near fully loaded touring! The next largest touring material is aluminium followed by titanium then lastly CF. Why is that? Because to make a CF bike strong enough to do a fully loaded tour it would weigh the same as aluminum and steel frame bike that's how inferior CF really is not to mention the cost because there isn't anyone with the molds to make that, and all the while be unable to fix the frame should something happen to it. And the Surly Long Haul Trucker is probably the most popular touring bike on the market. That is why if you google the best touring bikes there isn't one site that mentions a bike made of CF! Not that someday that may happen but after 30 years of CF bikes it hasn't happened yet.

http://tomsbiketrip.com/which-touring-bike-should-i-buy/
http://www.cyclingabout.com/best-touring-bikes-list/
http://road.cc/content/buyers-guide/205991-10-best-touring-bikes-—-your-options-taking-beyond
http://bicycletouringpro.com/top-100-best-touring-bicycles/

Even the list of 100 best touring bikes not one carbon fiber bike...and did you notice a common denominator bicycle brands amongst all those websites? I let you figure out that one.

So here's laughing at you!!

 

[CAMPYBOB]

"I don't believe your BS stories!!"

No one really cares what either you or I 'believe'. The facts related to you on these pages are just that. Facts. Reality. History. You can choose to believe their veracity or choose not to. It matters not one whit to me or any of the three or four other readers of this thread.


"I've seen cheap steel bikes crack and were ridden like that for not just days but in one case over a year! And I've never heard of a cracked CF frame that was safe to ride except for seat stays which really aren't needed and rarely break anyways. You're so pro CF you make up these stories so people will buy CF, which is fine but made up stories aren't needed to that."

Let's think about that retarded statement for a moment. Explain to the crowd of the five of us exactly 'why' I would care what frame material people that I don't even know or will ever meet or even glance at in life would buy???

That statement is a testament to your mental state.

They...whomever 'they' might be can vote with their wallets, their personal preferences and their evident bias and ride their hearts out. It is their right.

It is also the right of freedom loving people everywhere to laugh at them until their sides ache. I would like to believe Narrow Quintana is laughing his huge Columbian heart off right now in the very unlikely event he is following this arcane thread in the backwaters of the Intarwebz.


"Just so you know, because obviously you don't know, a HUGE percentage of touring bikes are made of STEEL, the least percentage is carbon fiber and most of those credit card it...that ain't no where near fully loaded touring!"

VISA is my friend. As it is for the gentleman I met last Fall while he was on his cross country bucket list ride. You know...the one I posted the pic of. Just so fools like you might believe a story! LOL! Anyway. He was on carbonn and VISA card. Not eveyone in life is a broke ass troll tightwad that lives in fear of having to have his bike welded back together by Obongo on the slopes of Kilimajaro. But hey, if you're that adventurous...go for it.

As to repairing steel or aluminum in East Jugundi:
"None of the materials are easily repaired on the road. One of our neighbors is a welder with NASA certifications and does aircraft stuff all the time, but when I told him how thin-walled the modern steel and aluminum frames are, he said he wouldn't touch them."

Of course, you, Froze, know of several African welders skilled enough to get your Mercian back in action with a little jungle love. Cool.


"The next largest touring material is aluminium followed by titanium then lastly CF. Why is that? Because to make a CF bike strong enough to do a fully loaded tour it would weigh the same as aluminum and steel frame bike that's how inferior CF really is not to mention the cost because there isn't anyone with the molds to make that, and all the while be unable to fix the frame should something happen to it. And the Surly Long Haul Trucker is probably the most popular touring bike on the market. That is why if you google the best touring bikes there isn't one site that mentions a bike made of CF! Not that someday that may happen but after 30 years of CF bikes it hasn't happened yet."

And yet you completely blow off the pic of that fully bagged up roadie going on the 900-mile tour. <sigh> They never learn. Just stay reactionary and living in the past.

Ever hear of a Jamis Renegade? Carbon Fiber Monocoque and ready to tour anywhere. On any road. In any country including those where head shrinkers are still at work. Including the headshrinker types that helps folks get over their irrational fears of a material that even Greggy Lemond raced on. The Salsa Cutthroat might make a good choice depending on bag capacity required. And yes, I toured for three months with no need for front panniers. There are lots of carbon bikes out there plenty strong enough to hang 40 pounds of gear on. Like I said earlier, look at the beefs riding 1 Kg carbon race frames now. Put a touron type on there and add the gear weight and you would be well under beef's weight.

As far as Surly Lot Lizards being 'good'...Google the problems with the LHT. It ain't all that 'good'.

Here's a typical LHT failure...which also include dropouts, weld failures and tube failures:
"Hey All,

I am touring in South America with a LHT. I just finished the Carraterra Austral. Outside of El Chalten, the brazeons for the rear rack ripped right off the seatstays. The welds didnt crack, the bolts didnt shear, but a dime size chunk of metal ripped out of the seatstay tubes on both sides. Thats the last thing I would expect to happen. Some other cyclists said they heard this was a common occurance with the LHT. Anyone know about this?"

Yeah...common occurrence judging by the search results. Would carbon or aluminum or Titanium fare any better? Who knows? It sure wouldn't do any worse, that's for sure. Oh well, keep up with your Luddite bias.

And no, Froze, I am not offended by anything you have said. Neither do I question your faith in the material you choose to believe in, but for God's sake man it's 2016. Not 1972.

Focus has made a carbon frame with eyelets for years, as have multiple builders. The backroads tourers and gravel grinders have been on carbon for many years now. No one is going back to steel but some old Fudd's that never got over Richard M. Nixon.

 

[CAMPYBOB]

Forgot to mention...chase down that guy with the broken Lot Lizard. Be sure and question his story. We all know that could never happen because steel is all strong and stuff. Amiright?

 

[Froze]

Hmmm, mental state? I think you have graphically described your own mental state which is extremely volatile and juvenile embracing fantasy, and conjecturing tales to suit your needs, then exaggerate things that I said so you can make me sound like an idiot when it fact all you're really doing is making yourself sound like that.

So with that I'm not going to respond to you any more on this subject, have a good time playing with yourself.

 

[CAMPYBOB]

make me sound like an idiot

Well...yes. Yes, you do.

I just remembered...you are the Luddite that actually believes Simple Green dissolves bike chains! It just dawned on me that you have some very, very strange beliefs with zero facts to back them up. You remind me more and more of Alf...the loon than actually put it out there that he thought it entirely possible to ride an UltraTorque crankset with a 1 MM "air gap" between the half shafts.

I get it now.

Air gaps...Simple Green voodoo...thin steel that can be magically repaired by Ongo Bongo in the jungles of Swaziland, but not by certified welders that refuse to touch the stuff. And carbon can not be repaired at all despite Calfee and and few dozen other folks doing just that. Including the guy in the video that said he repairs 50% of the wheels sent to him. Wild stuff there, huh?

Wheels! Carbon wheels that can be made safely rideable again in a matter of an hour's time! Maybe the next batch of overloaded tourons can manage to find room for a 50-gram pair of epoxy tubes and a few pieces of carbon or fiberglass cloth? Nah! Too busy picking out their lug set and the fifteenth bag to strap to their rig.

Gotcha!

You live in a fantasy land of geriatric postulates that remain unproven myth, backed up by internet lore from people going by the handle of "RetroGrouch". For real.

How many carbon bikes have you owned? How many miles have you put on them? I would love to hear all about your near death experiences.

While you prep for recounting how many carbon frames have failed under your massive Watt output, please look at this beautiful Stork Multiroad touring bike...rack mounts molded in and loaded with touron features galore.

https://www.racycles.com/road/storc...sku=10053236&gclid=CO3Cwu2n4M8CFQ8waQodtVgHAg

You do know about Stork? Them Germans...they make good stuff. And among the many touring bike builders that manufacture in carbon fiber they are right up there. But, you knew that. AmIright?

A flat bar, a triple crank, touron wheels, 37 MM tires. Perfect for a month riding the Australian Outback or running from Mexican drug cartels.

Even Calfee has an excellent carbon bike that will take a metric **** ton of abuse from wild gravel racing to randonneuring to touring.

http://calfeedesign.com/adventure/

I know you freak at the price of a Lot Lizard, so I won't tell you to get your checkbook out, but you could take a gander at Calfee's bamboo frame. I hear tell those are easily repair by ninja's if you're touring the forests at the base of Mt. Fuji Finest.

 

[CAMPYBOB]

Now that I have your attention, Frozen in Time...

You did know that the record for around the World...that's in: as around the entire Planet...record for unsopported touring is held by a Mr. Mike Hall on a <gasp!!!> carbon fiber bicycle?!?!?!

http://road.cc/content/news/59716-i...holder-mike-hall-talks-round-world-record-kit

Yes. I know you knew that.

Here's a quote from Mike...a guy that actually rides long tours and doesn't just blow smoke about them on the internet.

"“Over the past few years I’ve become a proponent of carbon for longer rides,” says Mike. “I’ve found that I’ve cracked any metal bike over a long period of time. Steel, alu or titanium, I’ve cracked them all through long-term use. If you look at fatigue tests, carbon frames perform better.

Do you hear that, Bunky?

What's that sound? Why...it's the sound of facts and history flying right past your firmly implanted bias.

That's what it is.

I guess I really am trying to sell carbon because the CPCPCB (that's the Carbon People Constantly Paying Campy Bob) keep me in cash! Lots and lots of cash! Muwhahahah!

Hey, I've got an idea! Why don't you email Mike Hall and tell him how ****ed up he his and that his story about running around the planet on a carbon bike is pure unadulterated ********? I would be surprised if he doesn't laugh at you even harder than I am.

And Lordy! He even rode on...<double gasp!!!> CARBON WHEELS!!!

"The wheels are made up of Reynolds’ carbon Thirty Two rims – the 32 referring to the rim depth in millimetres – specially drilled with 32 holes and laced onto DMR mountain bike hubs."

Jeez, Froze...carbon on carbon! And only 32's at that. Did you take your heart meds today? I know your blood pressure is going through the roof right now. My bad.

Uh oh...better have your nitro pills handy. He used a carbon bar!

"a Summit carbon bar,"

I know you'll be reporting him to the Liar's Club at any minute now!

He carried 40 pounds of gear. That's about the same to 5 pounds less than what I carried in Europe. Knowing how gear has lost anywhere from 10% to maybe 50% of its mass and packs much smaller these days I'm assuming he didn't leave much behind. He used gear drops...smart.

But then, again, he didn't plan on needing Obongo the Welder dude.

Well, let's see the rough draft of your letter to Mike...waiting patiently for your response...

 

[CAMPYBOB]

After that we can get back to discussing your Simple Green phobia!

 

[Fitness_Select]

https://www.etsy.com/au/listing/472...34-leggings-panty-line?ref=shop_home_active_5 check this latest fitness gear

 

[Froze]

poor little child, you're still having your little fit I see. I wonder how long it will take for you to grow up and stop having these lengthy fits.

 

[CAMPYBOB]

Still drinking the Koolaid, I see.

Not one word about a man that toured around the World in record time on a carbon fiber bike equipped with carbon fiber wheels and carbon fiber handlebars. All while carrying 40 pounds of gear.

And I see you are still discounting the knowledge of a man that knows far more than you about long distance riding and touring.

“Over the past few years I’ve become a proponent of carbon for longer rides,” says Mike. “I’ve found that I’ve cracked any metal bike over a long period of time. Steel, alu or titanium, I’ve cracked them all through long-term use. If you look at fatigue tests, carbon frames perform better."

Tell us again how many carbon fiber bikes you've owned, how many miles you have ridden on them and then relate your near death experiences to us. There must have been many of them according to your quantitative analysis of Simple Green and materials science.

Why, I'll bet you have several documented tales of your chain snapping just as your carbon fiber frame asploded into over one hundred pieces and left you stranded in the Altiplano! LMFAO at you, Froze!

Excuse me for a moment. After I compose myself I'm going to book a bike tour through deepest, darkest Tennessee for a weekend. Should it asplode, I'm pretty sure their billhilly welders can piece my Columbus steel track bike back together 'gud 'nuff' to get me down a few of those mountain descents.

 

[Froze]

still having a fit I see.

 

[CAMPYBOB]

Fit? Nope.

I am still waiting on your answers though.

Froze, you really are as clueless as Alf.

You say one thing and Mike Hall, a man that has actually been around the world on a bike a few times says:

“Over the past few years I’ve become a proponent of carbon for longer rides,” says Mike. “I’ve found that I’ve cracked any metal bike over a long period of time. Steel, alu or titanium, I’ve cracked them all through long-term use. If you look at fatigue tests, carbon frames perform better."

I think you're full of **** and that Mike Hall knows a hellova sight more than you ever will.

Again, how many carbon fiber frames have you owned and how many miles have you put on them. How many times have you needed a helo to rescue you and your broken carbon fiber frame?

And getting back to your irrational Simple Green phobia...how many chains have you managed to dissolve?

No rush. We'll wait for you to compose your logical answer to those questions.

BTW, has Mike responded to your diatribe yet? I mean, no way he could get around the planet on a carbon fiber bike. With carbon fiber wheels. And carbon fiber handlebars. AmIright?

You know what you must do! Now go! Kick his ass, seabass!

 

[doctorold]

Well, this is quite a thread. Pluses and minuses both ways but I love a steel frame bike. Ride quality is so choice. But not all steel is created equal. Rust? It's a possibility if the paint is taken off and water/salt is allowed to penetrate but I have several steel bikes and if any rust started, I quickly took care of it. My only experience with CF I found the ride very stiff and riding over any inconsistent pavement was a teeth-chattering event. If weight is a consideration, many choose CF. But I just got a True Temper S3 frame bike that weighs right around 16 lbs. Light, stiff steel. If you need to be lighter, lose some weight.