Thinking about buying a steel frame road bike



[QU tryst: 3821476, member: 109268"]Epoxy fail? Now, your stretching. How come. Boeing and Ferrari aren't worried about that horrific epoxy fail in aerospace and Formula 1 applications. Most carbon frames, even cheap Chinese carbon, are coming out of stock molds that bond the material well, it's not Mr Wong with a jar of airplane glue joining carbon tubing to aluminum lugs. I'm willing to give you a good deal on the Newport.[/QUOTE]


Yeah coz all else is 100% pure and lab test worthy! :D

Master Alleycat says Hi! :D

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Even the el cheapo factory seconds from Fly22 are race worthy. That no-name Douglas Matrix I bought from Colorado Cyclist in 2007 has somewhere around 25k-30k miles on it and I would confidently swing a leg over have more faith in it getting me across America than my quads.

Companies like Wilier, TREK, Giant, Xpace, Spesh et al would have been litigated out of existence if their products weren't as safe as anything else on the market. Same goes for Lynskey. Their Ti wonders fail no more or less often than anything else out there.

What was the last Lambert/Viscount fiasco?
 
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What was the last Lambert/Viscount fiasco?

Oooh mememe!! Andy Schleck? :D

Ah no, this was good ol'murican SRAM wasn't it? :D

We're gonna die!!!... :D

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I got both for 70€, basically 10€ off both..

They are quite comfortable... Maybe as the gp4000s which got ripped..

The Rubinos I had were the "pro tech" ones which had reinforced sidewalls al'a gatorskins.. but for this year Vittoria introduced their graphite recipe for the compound and the closest to the pro techs were this year's pro controls.

They were 320g for 25 instead of 260g for the 23-25s Roubaix ones... (Some YouTube geezer weighted them and they were actually a bit more then 250g)

which is kinda suspicious as the gp4000s were 240g for 23s with practically non existent sidewalls..

Weird thing is that I could not find anything about their TPI count.. could be 60tpi as far as I know.. the Roubaix ones are 120tpi.

Plus the dual compound smells like trouble..

So far so good.. but I only have about 80k on them..

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Conti's have always been famous for having paper thin sidewalls which get ripped all the time, but that's how they also achieve their nice ride, some people don't mind paying a lot of money for a tire only to get them ripped by something as long as the ride feels good, which is why those same people will buy latex tubes to enhance the ride even further. Everyone is looking for that clincher tire that rides like a tubular without the hassle of a tubular and they don't care about the durability or the cost of tire that feels like that. Me being a bit more practical and a person who use to ride on tubulars, and rode on lots of Conti clinchers, doesn't care about all of that stuff! Sure I don't want to feel like I'm riding on a wood tire, but I don't want to waste $75 per tire that will only last 2500 miles IF the sidewall doesn't fail first. Like I said, I always pay less than $30 for a tire and I always get great long lasting, lightweight tires that make Conti's look sick. But Conti has really good marketing, and like Bose, people will buy it regardless of how good they really are. I consider Conti tires to be the Bose of the bicycle tire industry, nothing more than slick marketing and expensive prices.
 
Conti's have always been famous for having paper thin sidewalls which get ripped all the time, but that's how they also achieve their nice ride, some people don't mind paying a lot of money for a tire only to get them ripped by something as long as the ride feels good, which is why those same people will buy latex tubes to enhance the ride even further. Everyone is looking for that clincher tire that rides like a tubular without the hassle of a tubular and they don't care about the durability or the cost of tire that feels like that. Me being a bit more practical and a person who use to ride on tubulars, and rode on lots of Conti clinchers, doesn't care about all of that stuff! Sure I don't want to feel like I'm riding on a wood tire, but I don't want to waste $75 per tire that will only last 2500 miles IF the sidewall doesn't fail first. Like I said, I always pay less than $30 for a tire and I always get great long lasting, lightweight tires that make Conti's look sick. But Conti has really good marketing, and like Bose, people will buy it regardless of how good they really are. I consider Conti tires to be the Bose of the bicycle tire industry, nothing more than slick marketing and expensive prices.


I care alot more about having a blown tire then the plushness of the ride... Alot more.. :D I discovered the tube showing from the sidewall on the conti on my way -out- of the"Haus"... You don't like that stuff! :D

Yeah and the Blonde Maidens hand rolling them getting dirty in Jerm-any doesn't help for the intoxicated marketing-ados to see the light either.. :D

I don't dare to even consider tubulars.. not until I have a guy in a support Skoda Octavia behind me with another bike and after I had moved to freaky Monaco.. :D

That's why I was originally thinking of getting the pro control Rubino stuff in 25.. I think I drive alot more skiddy in 23s anyway and there is no reason not to get 25s anyway after all...

Interesting fact: Jo internet said that these were made in Japan. The box on these said Thailand. Vittoria are also made in Thailand. Thailand's.. nice! :D
 
Even the el cheapo factory seconds from Fly22 are race worthy.

What was the last Lambert/Viscount fiasco?

Damn Bob, you're older than dirt if you're referencing Lambert "death forks" But your point is true. I'm not seeing any real evidence of carbon frame failures at any price point.

Was it ever determined whether Schleck's components/chain failed or he just made a very aggressive shift? Volnix equating a bad shift on a steep grade hill to a catastrophic epoxy failure is another stretch. When I drop a chain due to an overagresive shift, I don't blame the bike.
 
Damn Bob, you're older than dirt if you're referencing Lambert "death forks" But your point is true. I'm not seeing any real evidence of carbon frame failures at any price point.

Was it ever determined whether Schleck's components/chain failed or he just made a very aggressive shift? Volnix equating a bad shift on a steep grade hill to a catastrophic epoxy failure is another stretch. When I drop a chain due to an overagresive shift, I don't blame the bike.

Where do you get your data from?

I'm already on my second fork on the alu-alez.

Alot of "Fred" practically unridden carbon bikes out there...
 
Where do you get your data from?

I'm already on my second fork on the alu-alez.

Alot of "Fred" practically unridden carbon bikes out there...

As Bob said, the US is a very litigious society and I represent a retailer who sells tons of low end bikes that some would call trash, some that are even carbon. I've seen virtually any type of bike claim where the rider implicates design, manufacture, or assembly; and I work with lots of experts and testing centers to analyze failures, in most cases trying to figure out whether the failure was pre- or post- crash. Because I represent the retailer, I have every incentive to implicate the design or manufacture as being the cause of the crash, as opposed to final assembly. In most cases, we cannot find a design or manufacturing problem. The first thing I do is jump on consumer safety wathdog sites and see whether there have been recalls or prior reported failures. Upon forensic analysis, We find lots of post crash damage, maintenance issues, and rider error. It's one thing to post a picture of an "asploaded" frame on the internet and claim it just gave out, it's different when you get the frame on the lab and analyze where the forces came from.

I'm sure carbon frame failures exist, but it's not a "real' problem in any sense. They are exceedingly rare. A safe cheap bicycle is not a particularly difficult engineering problem for mass production anywhere in the world. Let's take Dorel, a company that imports and markets cheap mass produced bikes internationally. Are you going to want to race with it, no? Do people all over South America, Indonesia, Thailand, and elsewhere use these cheap bikes every day for virtually everything you can imagine, yes. These same bikes are marketed and imported in the US as Schwinns or Mongoose (Pacific) and are sold in mass retailers all over without safety issues. They also sell cheap carbon frames. Giant is the largest manufacturer in the world and sells lots of safe value bicycles. The Brazilian or African Guy riding a cheap bike to work every day is not riding a Bianchi. It takes way more abuse than a bike ridden in the first world.

Even the NYT article on the so-called danger of Carbon Frames was garbage. No data, just rumors and andectdotes from unnamed sources about the danger of Carbon. Believe me, my colleagues on the other side of the v. and folks like me looking to pin the blame away from my clients and onto manufacturers would be all over he so-called defects in carbon, particularly as it filters down to the value bicycles.
 
As Bob said, the US is a very litigious society and I represent a retailer who sells tons of low end bikes that some would call trash, some that are even carbon. I've seen virtually any type of bike claim where the rider implicates design, manufacture, or assembly; and I work with lots of experts and testing centers to analyze failures, in most cases trying to figure out whether the failure was pre- or post- crash. Because I represent the retailer, I have every incentive to implicate the design or manufacture as being the cause of the crash, as opposed to final assembly. In most cases, we cannot find a design or manufacturing problem. The first thing I do is jump on consumer safety wathdog sites and see whether there have been recalls or prior reported failures. Upon forensic analysis, We find lots of post crash damage, maintenance issues, and rider error. It's one thing to post a picture of an "asploaded" frame on the internet and claim it just gave out, it's different when you get the frame on the lab and analyze where the forces came from.

I'm sure carbon frame failures exist, but it's not a "real' problem in any sense. They are exceedingly rare. A safe cheap bicycle is not a particularly difficult engineering problem for mass production anywhere in the world. Let's take Dorel, a company that imports and markets cheap mass produced bikes internationally. Are you going to want to race with it, no? Do people all over South America, Indonesia, Thailand, and elsewhere use these cheap bikes every day for virtually everything you can imagine, yes. These same bikes are marketed and imported in the US as Schwinns or Mongoose (Pacific) and are sold in mass retailers all over without safety issues. They also sell cheap carbon frames. Giant is the largest manufacturer in the world and sells lots of safe value bicycles. The Brazilian or African Guy riding a cheap bike to work every day is not riding a Bianchi. It takes way more abuse than a bike ridden in the first world.

Even the NYT article on the so-called danger of Carbon Frames was garbage. No data, just rumors and andectdotes from unnamed sources about the danger of Carbon. Believe me, my colleagues on the other side of the v. and folks like me looking to pin the blame away from my clients and onto manufacturers would be all over he so-called defects in carbon, particularly as it filters down to the value bicycles.

Mongoose are Schwinn?? :O that's how they sell them here too..

Hehe one thing that I like about amurican brands is just that, the insane amount of health and safety red tape and always considering the final user as a clueless accident magnet. :D the stickers on a new bike are quite funny. :D

On the other hand.. Vittoria selling clincher tires rated at 145psi seems kinda fishy.. :D

I'm all in for a carbon bike.. but I just know that I will get into a situation that is not covered by warranty.. like riding under direct sunlight or something crazy like that..

I test rode a tarmac once. It climbs better than alu. ;)
 
Damn Bob, you're older than dirt if you're referencing Lambert "death forks" But your point is true. I'm not seeing any real evidence of carbon frame failures at any price point.

Was it ever determined whether Schleck's components/chain failed or he just made a very aggressive shift? Volnix equating a bad shift on a steep grade hill to a catastrophic epoxy failure is another stretch. When I drop a chain due to an overagresive shift, I don't blame the bike.


LOL! Yeah...I am old. I remember when Yamaha bought them out and recalled the forks. Do you remember the gold plated Lamberts? Those things (somewhere between 30 and 50 built) are worth a little money as collectors' items.

I've seen a couple still pics of Andy's infamous thrown chain shift the were blown up and still pretty sharp. IIRC Schleck was trying to go from the large-large combo...any gear that keeps your legs going is a good one on a French mountainside...to the small-some other gear combo? He dropped the chain and the rest is history. Chain minders became much more popular after that...

Andy muffed the chain replacement a few times, but got going just in time to throw the TDF away...until the beef doping thing at least. Andy lost 39 seconds. Enough to put Contador into the lead.

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Blurry, but appears to be large chainring to largest or next to largest cassette gear? Notice the attack is on and some of the other riders on on the small ring. Probably everyone grabbing a gear to respond to the change in pace.

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SRAM stuff?
 
Huh..Andy had a chain minder and the bounce of the rear wheel was maybe not a bump, but the chain locking up and bending the chain guard. Mechanic said he was in the 14 gear (maybe), but it looked closer to the hub to me.

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Even a pro can make a bad shift and drop a chain on a mountain. I'm not sure Schleck's dropped chain proves Volnix's point that components are exploding without warning in the carbon age. Also hard to say whether the same thing could happen using Campy or Shimano on an aggressive shift. I dropped a chain in a cyclocross race jumping a log too aggressively using 105. I lost about 40 seconds unjamming it and getting it back on. The lesson I learned was not that i needed to upgrade my drivetrain, but that I needed to be smoother over logs on the next lap
 
Campybob is having a bad hair day. Don't let his drama persuade you not to get steel, almost all my bikes are steel including one that has over 160,000 miles with about half of that racing in the mountains of California, and I have none of the problems that good ol Bob is going on about, in fact only the cheapest steel bikes for the most part will have poor construction, but even those will hold up better than Carbon or aluminum as it testified by the thousands of old cheap crappy steel bikes from department stores that are still rideable 50 years later.

I guess I could get dramatic about carbon fiber too, lets see, it cracks and breaks suddenly killing the rider without warning, rocks kicked up from tires have been known to put holes in the frame, repairing a carbon frame can cost more than just buying a new frame. So steel isn't alone in problems.

The Specialized Allez Steel Frame Road bike you're looking at is superior and lighter than the Schwinn bike Bob mentions.


After my concussion caused by a carbon fiber fork literally falling apart I was virtually unconscious for 2 years. Found a competent neurologist at Palo Alto Medical Center and after a year of experimenting with drugs and dosages I slowly came back to normal if you call depending on drugs to keep you normal as normal

I went though the entire gamut of bikes again before coming back to steel and I am totally satisfied here. There's a reason why even Colnago is still building steel bikes. Tommasini Fire are really great bikes. The newest ones are constructed of stainless tubing so you don't have to worry about rust. Too bad they aren't building the Aluminun Pinarellos that they were. A well made aluminum bike is almost the same weight as carbon fiber.

But I have 5 steel bikes and love them all.
 
Huh..Andy had a chain minder and the bounce of the rear wheel was maybe not a bump, but the chain locking up and bending the chain guard. Mechanic said he was in the 14 gear (maybe), but it looked closer to the hub to me.

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The common quick link should not be reused but everyone does it. The Connex quicklink is reusable and safe.
 
Hey, thanks for sharing! I totally agree, reusing quick links can compromise performance and safety. The Connex quicklink is a great option for those who prioritize peak performance!
 

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