This is the TdF we should have seen in 2000 and 2001

[Keith]

I've been a "massive" TdF fan and follower since 1978 at the beginning of the Hinault era and
thought in 2000 and 2001 that his year's scenario would be the one at the time, with 1999 being a
transition year.

I've got nothing against Lance and his "miraculous" recovery, but he broke the "rules" by being the
best climber and ITT racer between 1999 and 2002. That's just not the way it's supposed to be in
TdF. It had never happened before, except maybe in the multiple winner's best years (Hinault in 81,
Fignon in 84, Lemond in 86). That's why all the TdF followers have been so suspicious of Lance's
performances...

So yes today, when Lance cracked at last, I have to admit that I'm happy to see an "anomaly" hit the
wall and the end of his career. Ironically, the rule he isn't breaking is that no multiple winners
(in recent history) won a TdF after his 31st birthday.

 

[Jhx99]

Keith <[email protected]> wrote in
>
> So yes today, when Lance cracked at last, I have to admit that I'm happy to see an "anomaly" hit
> the wall and the end of his career. Ironically, the rule he isn't breaking is that no multiple
> winners (in recent history) won a TdF after his 31st birthday.
>

I wouldn´t call that cracking.... Lance gave up some seconds today, but given the fact that he lost
about 7 kg of water yesterday his performance was very solid indeed...

 

[Keith]

On Sat, 19 Jul 2003 23:32:10 GMT, jhx99 <[email protected]> wrote:

>Keith <[email protected]> wrote in
>>
>> So yes today, when Lance cracked at last, I have to admit that I'm happy to see an "anomaly" hit
>> the wall and the end of his career. Ironically, the rule he isn't breaking is that no multiple
>> winners (in recent history) won a TdF after his 31st birthday.
>>
>
>I wouldn´t call that cracking.... Lance gave up some seconds today, but given the fact that he
>lost about 7 kg of water yesterday his performance was very solid indeed...

True, but compared to his performances in the mountains between 1999 and 2002, relatively speaking,
one could say he "cracked".

 

[Tritonrider]

>From: Keith [email protected] Date: 7/19/2003 7:16 PM Eastern

>I've got nothing against Lance and his "miraculous" recovery, but he broke the "rules" by being the
>best climber and ITT racer between 1999 and 2002. That's just not the way it's supposed to be in
>TdF. It had never happened before, except maybe in the multiple winner's best years (Hinault in 81,
>Fignon in 84, Lemond in 86). That's why all the TdF followers have been so suspicious of Lance's
>performances...
>
>So yes today, when Lance cracked at last, I have to admit that I'm happy to see an "anomaly" hit
>the wall and the end of his career. Ironically, the rule he isn't breaking is that no multiple
>winners (in recent history) won a TdF after his 31st birthday.

I wouldn't say that Lance was that far above the rest. I would say that Jan hasn't lived up to his
talent until this year. his could've been a rivalry for the ages but Jan didn't have the drive
Lance does. Looks like he has found it now and will get one or maybe two more tour wins. I'm
picking Jan hands down for next year. Bill C

 

[Keith]

On 19 Jul 2003 23:59:05 GMT, [email protected] (TritonRider) wrote:

>>From: Keith [email protected] Date: 7/19/2003 7:16 PM Eastern
>
>>I've got nothing against Lance and his "miraculous" recovery, but he broke the "rules" by being
>>the best climber and ITT racer between 1999 and 2002. That's just not the way it's supposed to be
>>in TdF. It had never happened before, except maybe in the multiple winner's best years (Hinault in
>>81, Fignon in 84, Lemond in 86). That's why all the TdF followers have been so suspicious of
>>Lance's performances...
>>
>>So yes today, when Lance cracked at last, I have to admit that I'm happy to see an "anomaly" hit
>>the wall and the end of his career. Ironically, the rule he isn't breaking is that no multiple
>>winners (in recent history) won a TdF after his 31st birthday.
>
> I wouldn't say that Lance was that far above the rest. I would say that Jan hasn't lived up to his
> talent until this year. his could've been a rivalry for the ages but Jan didn't have the drive
> Lance does

I agree that Ullrich didn't live up to his 1997 showdown, but Lance did crush the competition
tremendously between 1999 and 2002, remember Sestrieres (I couldn't believe my eyes that day),
Hautacam or the Alpe d'Huez in 2001, not to mention the ITTs. Honestly I can't think of anyone who
was so dominant. Most of them smashed the field in ITTs and then stayed with the best in the
mountins. He's not the same man this year. .
> Looks like he has found it now and will get one or maybe two more tour wins. I'm picking Jan hands
> down for next year. Bill C

 

[Shrek]

I doubt if Ullrich wil win 2 more Tours after this one.
1) He is 29
2) He'll revert to his old porker ways during the off season if we wins this year.
3) He is one Porsche accident or recreational drug away from another crisis.
4) Gaby will run off with the kid and put him into a mental depression.

[email protected] (TritonRider) wrote:

>>From: Keith [email protected] Date: 7/19/2003 7:16 PM Eastern
>
>>I've got nothing against Lance and his "miraculous" recovery, but he broke the "rules" by being
>>the best climber and ITT racer between 1999 and 2002. That's just not the way it's supposed to be
>>in TdF. It had never happened before, except maybe in the multiple winner's best years (Hinault in
>>81, Fignon in 84, Lemond in 86). That's why all the TdF followers have been so suspicious of
>>Lance's performances...
>>
>>So yes today, when Lance cracked at last, I have to admit that I'm happy to see an "anomaly" hit
>>the wall and the end of his career. Ironically, the rule he isn't breaking is that no multiple
>>winners (in recent history) won a TdF after his 31st birthday.
>
> I wouldn't say that Lance was that far above the rest. I would say that Jan hasn't lived up to his
> talent until this year. his could've been a rivalry for the ages but Jan didn't have the drive
> Lance does. Looks like he has found it now and will get one or maybe two more tour wins. I'm
> picking Jan hands down for next year. Bill C

 

[Gerrit Stolte]

On Sun, 20 Jul 2003 00:30:52 GMT, Keith <[email protected]> wrote:

>I agree that Ullrich didn't live up to his 1997 showdown, but Lance did crush the competition
>tremendously between 1999 and 2002, remember Sestrieres (I couldn't believe my eyes that day),
>Hautacam or the Alpe d'Huez in 2001, not to mention the ITTs. Honestly I can't think of anyone who
>was so dominant. Most of them smashed the field in ITTs and then stayed with the best in the
>mountins.

So you never heard about the TdF in the 40s, 50s and 60s. Never heard of people like Fausto Coppi or
that guy from Belgium?

Gerrit

 

[Keith]

On Sun, 20 Jul 2003 08:19:41 +0200, Gerrit Stolte <[email protected]> wrote:

>On Sun, 20 Jul 2003 00:30:52 GMT, Keith <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>I agree that Ullrich didn't live up to his 1997 showdown, but Lance did crush the competition
>>tremendously between 1999 and 2002, remember Sestrieres (I couldn't believe my eyes that day),
>>Hautacam or the Alpe d'Huez in 2001, not to mention the ITTs. Honestly I can't think of anyone who
>>was so dominant. Most of them smashed the field in ITTs and then stayed with the best in the
>>mountins.
>
>So you never heard about the TdF in the 40s, 50s and 60s. Never heard of people like Fausto Coppi
>or that guy from Belgium?

That was then dude and Coppi only won two TdF as far as I know. "Guy from Belgium"? Eddy Merckx? He
never dominted outrageously and constantly like Armstrong did. He had some very bad days on each
tour for a start.

>
>Gerrit

 

[Gerrit Stolte]

On Sun, 20 Jul 2003 07:35:52 GMT, Keith <[email protected]> wrote:

>On Sun, 20 Jul 2003 08:19:41 +0200, Gerrit Stolte <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 20 Jul 2003 00:30:52 GMT, Keith <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>I agree that Ullrich didn't live up to his 1997 showdown, but Lance did crush the competition
>>>tremendously between 1999 and 2002, remember Sestrieres (I couldn't believe my eyes that day),
>>>Hautacam or the Alpe d'Huez in 2001, not to mention the ITTs. Honestly I can't think of anyone
>>>who was so dominant. Most of them smashed the field in ITTs and then stayed with the best in the
>>>mountins.
>>
>>So you never heard about the TdF in the 40s, 50s and 60s. Never heard of people like Fausto Coppi
>>or that guy from Belgium?
>
>That was then dude and Coppi only won two TdF as far as I know. "Guy from Belgium"? Eddy Merckx? He
>never dominted outrageously and constantly like Armstrong did. He had some very bad days on each
>tour for a start.

Eddy won *all* three jerseys in one of his victories. So much outrageously domination. When will
Lance do this?

 

[Kirsten]

Shrek <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> I doubt if Ullrich wil win 2 more Tours after this one.
> 1) He is 29
> 2) He'll revert to his old porker ways during the off season if we wins this year.
> 3) He is one Porsche accident or recreational drug away from another crisis.
> 4) Gaby will run off with the kid and put him into a mental depression.
>
> [email protected] (TritonRider) wrote:
>
I think Jan Ullrich is quite a different person now. Just look at him racing: matured, determined,
controlling his impulses, still unhappy racing down the mountains, though, not the talented, courted
boy from poor East Germany anymore, but a grown up man with apparent cycling skills. He's on his
own, as Bianchi is not much of a team, so I doubt that he can make it to the top podium position.

 

[Keith]

>>>people like Fausto Coppi or that guy from Belgium?
>>
>>That was then dude and Coppi only won two TdF as far as I know. "Guy from Belgium"? Eddy Merckx?
>>He never dominted outrageously and constantly like Armstrong did. He had some very bad days on
>>each tour for a start.
>
>Eddy won *all* three jerseys in one of his victories. So much outrageously domination. When will
>Lance do this?

That was for his first tour in 1969 (he almost didn't take part because he doped a few weeks earlier
by the way...) and that's not inconsistent with my statement that the multiple winners had one or
two "top of the world" years - Hinault in 1979 and 1981, Lemond in 1986, Fignon in 1984. It never
lasted 4 years in a row.

Armstrong could have easily won the Yellow and Polka dot each time, but he just wasnt' interested.

 

[Gerrit Stolte]

On Sun, 20 Jul 2003 12:08:41 GMT, Keith <[email protected]> wrote:

>>>>people like Fausto Coppi or that guy from Belgium?
>>>
>>>That was then dude and Coppi only won two TdF as far as I know. "Guy from Belgium"? Eddy Merckx?
>>>He never dominted outrageously and constantly like Armstrong did. He had some very bad days on
>>>each tour for a start.
>>
>>Eddy won *all* three jerseys in one of his victories. So much outrageously domination. When will
>>Lance do this?
>
>That was for his first tour in 1969 (he almost didn't take part because he doped a few weeks
>earlier by the way...) and that's not inconsistent with my statement that the multiple winners had
>one or two "top of the world" years - Hinault in 1979 and 1981, Lemond in 1986, Fignon in 1984. It
>never lasted 4 years in a row.

Errr. What about that Spanish guy? Didn't last 4 years? Sure, it lastet one year longer ...

>Armstrong could have easily won the Yellow and Polka dot each time, but he just wasnt' interested.

Eddy wore the yellow jersey for 96 times. He won more stages, won more classics, won more races.
Go figure.