"Those riders named...will not be allowed to start"

[Lonnie Utah]

Yea, the Disco boys are allowed to be gleeful, that includes Lance.

If he didn't dope and they didn't - he is a superhuman.

If he dope and they doped - he won fair and square, and managed to finish his career with his name more or less intact.

He's the winner here, for sure - he deserved his TDF wins.

That's it in a nutshell. I don't really want to hear "Our guys could have won if Lance wasn't on dope!" anymore. Pretty much rings hollow for me now..

L

 

[rejobako]

That's it in a nutshell. I don't really want to hear "Our guys could have won if Lance wasn't on dope!" anymore. Pretty much rings hollow for me now..

L

Lonnie -- the LA naysayers have a new mantra now. Everyone dopes, but Lance is worse than any of them, because he proclaimed his innocence louder than anyone else.

Of course, the fact that he was targeted more than anyone else doesn't seem to matter.

Bottom line is if they're all dopers, then they're all liars. And in that event, it seems a meaningless exercise to suspend those unfortunate enough to get caught. I agree with many that this is a bad day for the sport, but not only because it appears almost certain that most professional cyclists are dopers. It's also because what many have been claiming all along appears to be true: testing protocols are meaningless. Right now, then, there is no way to "clean up" the sport, because the broom doesn't work.

And in that case, in my opinion, they need to let everyone ride, or no one, because no rider can conclusively prove their innocence by pointing to their drug tests.

 

[micron]

Just for the sake of accuracy, wolfix, you are conveniently forgetting Benoit Joachim who tested positive and was fired by US Postal - only to be discreetly rehired at a later time...

 

[doctorSpoc]

Astana-Würth leaves the Tour

Dutch television's sports anchorman Mart Smeets has just reported that the Astana-Würth team has left the Tour de France. The team had five of its Tour riders officially named in the Operacion Puerto affair (Sergio Paulinho, Isidro Nozal, Allan Davis, Alberto Contador, Joseba Beloki), as well as several others (Michele Scarponi, Marcos Serrano, David Etxebarria, Angel Vicioso, Unai Osa, Jörg Jaksche), and of course ex-team manager Manolo Saiz. The team therefore wouldn't have had enough riders to start.

In an official statement, Active Bay, the team's management company, confirmed the news. "In view of the content of the dossier sent to Spanish authorities, Active Bay has decided, in accordance with the Ethical Code signed between the UCI ProTour's teams, to withdraw from the Tour de France those riders that appear in the above-mentioned dossier.

"This decision is adopted without prejudice of the respect to the right to the presumption of innocence of these riders and of that Active Bay will exercise the actions for the defence of its rights and those of its workers. This measure does not concern the team's riders of the Tour de France that are not included in the dossier: Alexander Vinokourov, Andrey Kashechkin, Carlos Barredo and Luis León Sanchez. Nevertheless, the withdrawal of the riders that appear in the above-mentioned dossier implies that the Tour of France team will not have the minimum number of riders demanded by the UCI rules, which means the team will not be able to take the start tomorrow morning in the Tour de France."

The organisers of the Tour, ASO, were already determined to refuse to allow Astana-Würth to start, despite a ruling from the Court of Arbitration for Sport that said it could.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2006/jun06/jun30news6

 

[Orla_24]

Well, the Disco boys are watching the sport they've dedicated their lives to dragged through the mud. I can't imagine they are gleeful, regardless of their own possible degree of complicity in the doping-culture.

I think Bruneel's comments are an attempt to put the best face on the situation - on behalf of his sponsor, and the American audience that his sponsor depends on.

I hope you stick with the sport long enough to see it cleaned up, Orla. I think it's fantastic that there are fans who aren't racers themselaves.

I stand corrected, Durangodave. Gleeful was definitly the wrong word to use. I can't imagine there would be ANY sort of joy in the race tomorrow, and wherever Lance is right now (probably in France - I bet he's going to see the tour), I have no doubt he's depressed - the blow cycling took today is bound to affect his causes, as well, even after retirement.

Orla.

 

[seriouslydog]

What a punch in the gut when I got home from work and logged on today. Unbelievable.

OH, and I just remembered that when the Le Equipe story on Armstrong came out Ullrich was interviewed and said, "If it's true I'm very disappointed." Ha!

BLACK FRIDAY!

At this point why not just cancel the race? We all know testing is worthless and that the entire peloton had to have known. Maybe they didn't dope but they had to have been complicit. Throw the whole damn lot out.

 

[gavin11756]

Check out the last lines in the first article...

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2006/jun06/jun30news

If that's true, this could cripple our beloved sport more than the Festina fiasco...

Mark

Well. Innocent until proven guilty. Let's face it though. Cycling is such a corrupt and corruptable sport. Shame as it's so bloody good! These bloody dopers will be the ruin of the sport!

 

[gavin11756]

In addition to this being a tragedy for the sport, it's really mucking up my planning of my TdF fantasy team.

Looks like Levi Leipheimer might actually win the Tour.

I would see how the Aussies go this year. Levi is a great rider and a possible winner I suppose. However I wouldn't mind waiting until I make a prediction!

 

[gavin11756]

In apportioning blame - Verbruggen did not do what was necessary in July 1998.

I know I keep harping on this but that is the fact of the matter.

No reputable sponsor will want to have anything to do with a cycling team from now on.

I am told that TMO (the Corporate entity) are absolutely livid at having their name connected with this controversy.

Entire teams withdrawn! What next ?

 

[Treky]

First of all, I have to say this news shocked me. It was very unexpected and has given me a rude awakening. Not to mention it has really spoiled it for me so much so I am thinking of cancelling my season pass on my Tivo.

If I was a pro. I'd not want to win by doping. To me it would be a very hollow victory. I have not been following the pro. news so closely but I get the impression that folks here agree that all or most pro. cyclists use some kind of drug (from "meticulously" comment above I understand you guys are saying they were meticulous enough not to get caught). Very sad situation.

I am going to ask some basic questions here, I hope you guys bear with me and answer my questions. I guess it is not always possible to detect by blood or other tests if a cyclist has been doping? Let us not kid ourselves. Did anybody every suggest making these drugs legal (those that cannot be detected by tests)? How else can we make sure no cyclist in a tournament is doping?

This shadow that is hanging over the whole sport is really off putting. I do not want to follow it nor do I want my kids to become pro cyclists.

I am sure most here have already read this (in 1999 probably) but in case others are wondering, I found the anwers to my questions in a very well written article.

Here are a few quotes:

No dope, no hope

Hans Halter

"you don't win the Tour de France on mineral water"

Jacques Anquetil

The law says there's a speed limit of 65, but everyone is driving 70 or faster. Why should I be the one who obeys the limit?"

Alex Zülle

"If I was out of EPO or steroids or some other stuff, I would just go to one of the guys on the other teams and tell him what I needed."

***** Voet

"The great majority of healthy males have baseline hematocrit levels of about 42 percent"

"The only way you're going to get to 49.9 is by using EPO. Now if you know that every other rider on the starting line is doped up to a legal 49 level, are you going to give them an advantage by not doping?"

Don Catlin

By accepting a hematocrit of 50 percent, the testing will in fact be permitting, even encouraging, continued EPO abuse

The author,John Brant

I wonder if the 50% hematocrit is still the limit?

Anyhow there are many other eye opening statements by pro. cyclists and their trainers and team managers...

The full article is here:

http://outside.away.com/magazine/0799/9907tour.html

 

[JRMDC]

The full article is here:

http://outside.away.com/magazine/0799/9907tour.html

Thanks for the link.