Threaded versus threadless headset

[Hjalmar DuklæT]

Hi, What's the advantage of a threadless headset over an oldfashioned threaded one? Is the
threaded one stiffer/lighter? Would it improve my riding in any way going from threaded to
threadless? Hjalmar

 

[Qui Si Parla Ca]

hjalmar-<< What's the advantage of a threadless headset over an oldfashioned threaded one? Is the
threaded one stiffer/lighter? Would it improve my riding in any way going from threaded to
threadless? >><BR><BR>

The advantage goes to the fork makers on this one. They save $(not passed on to you, BTW) by making
forks with only one steerer length versus threaded that came in many.

Threadless does not offer any performance or strength advantages or a well made threaded setup.
However, as the bike industry merrily rolls along doing things that may save $, masking it in
'performance enhancing' marketing drivel, threaded forks are becoming scarce indeed.

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

 

[Bike Camano]

I like threaded stems for a few reasons. There is more adjustability * without* changing stems or
stacking spacer washers on top of the stem. They look better (IMO). They don't have clamp bolts on
the back of the stem. Because they are out of style they can be had rather inexpensively...

Most of my bikes have threadless though. They are generally easier to change stems and do
maintenance on the headsets.

Maurice

 

[Werehatrack]

On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 12:42:34 +0200, "Hjalmar Duklæt" <[email protected]> may have said:

>Hi, What's the advantage of a threadless headset over an oldfashioned threaded one? Is the threaded
>one stiffer/lighter? Would it improve my riding in any way going from threaded to threadless?

In general, you can get a greater variety of fork designs in threadless than threaded. Which type is
inherently "better" seems to be a matter of opinion.

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail. Yes, I have a killfile. If I
don't respond to something, it's also possible that I'm busy.

 

[Richard Ney]

Hjalmar Duklæt writes:

> What's the advantage of a threadless headset over an oldfashioned threaded one? Is the threaded
> one stiffer/lighter? Would it improve my riding in any way going from threaded to threadless?

There's no movement in the threadless steerer-stem connection, as there is in a stem using a wedge.
The threadless stem clamps directly to the steerer.

 

[David L. Johnso]

On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 13:59:04 +0000, Richard Ney wrote:

> Hjalmar Duklæt writes:
>
>> What's the advantage of a threadless headset over an oldfashioned threaded one? Is the threaded
>> one stiffer/lighter? Would it improve my riding in any way going from threaded to threadless?
>
> There's no movement in the threadless steerer-stem connection, as there is in a stem using a
> wedge. The threadless stem clamps directly to the steerer.

Along with lots of other imaginary advantages. Would it improve your riding? No. Is there movement
between the stem and steerer tube in threaded fork? If you grab the front wheel and twist the bars,
maybe, but you do not twist the bars like that when riding. Remember, you can control your bike
riding no hands, so the amount of stress your stem will be under in turning the bike is very, very
small. Most stress on any stem is just from you resting part of your weight on the bars.

There is one, and only one, advantage to a threadless headset. Dealers only have to sell one size
fork. There are many disadvantages: little to no bar height adjustment possible without replacing
the stem, having to re-set the bearing adjustment any time the stem is replaced in order to try to
improve bar height. Ugliness.

The bar height problem is IMO a real one. Many new bikes are set up to look like what the pros ride.
So people buy them, only to realize that they don't have the body of a pro racer. Then they either
put the bike in the garage and ride their "comfort" bike instead, or they go on an odyssey of trying
to find a stem with enough rise. Very few new bikes have a spacer on top of the stem, so adjusting
the bars upward is only possible if flipping the stem over raises the position. Sometimes that
helps, but the large market for "riser" stems suggests that it doesn't always. And again, every time
you mess around with the stem, you have to re-adjust the bearings.

With a quill stem (that is, with a threaded fork and headset), to adjust the bar height, you loosen
the nut on top of the stem, tap it to free it up, pull up on the bars, and tighten. Some stems don't
allow much adjustment, but many do. Mine gives about an inch and a half; more than I need. On a
tour, or in the winter, I can raise the bars a bit. I can lower them when I am in better shape or
riding harder.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | Some people used to claim that, if enough monkeys sat in front _`\(,_ | of enough
typewriters and typed long enough, eventually one of (_)/ (_) | them would reproduce the
collected works of Shakespeare. The internet has proven this not to be the case.

 

[Fabrizio Mazzol]

David L. Johnson wrote in message ...
>>
>With a quill stem (that is, with a threaded fork and headset),

Dave, when was the last time you saw anyone riding with those old things, these days everyone ride
threadless.

And if you do see guys with quill stems on the next ride then find another group to ride with,
because they are the 'B' group. Those are probably the same lamers that are running conventional 32
spoke wheels. Not the types you want to been seen with!

 

[Paul Southworth]

In article <[email protected]>, David L. Johnson <[email protected]> wrote:
>Very few new bikes have a spacer on top of the stem, so adjusting the bars upward is only possible
>if flipping the stem over raises the position.

Or if you use a steer tube extender. Which works fine and costs little but is admittedly hideous.
But it's nicer than a quill stem in the sense that you can add rise to any threadless stem, a lot
cheaper and easier than you can find a replacement quill stem with more rise. If what you want is
proper fit, it works fine.

In the case of someone doing a fresh conversion to threadless however, this really isn't an issue -
just buy the right fork.

--Paul

 

[M Gagnon]

"Hjalmar Duklæt" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de
news:[email protected]...
> Hi, What's the advantage of a threadless headset over an oldfashioned threaded one? Is the
> threaded one stiffer/lighter? Would it improve my riding in
any
> way going from threaded to threadless? Hjalmar
>
>

No difference at all as far as riding is concerned. Differences are in construction, cost,
flexibility and durability.

- With threadless headset, the manufacturer may manufacture a very long for and cut or (or have it
cut by the LBS) to the required length. Less inventory.

- Threaded is nicer. Highly subjective, but it's more gracious on a nice road or touring bike.

- Threadless headset is less adjustable. With threaded, one may slide in and out the quill to raise
handlebars; with threadless, you need to move spacers around (not as nice) or use an adjustable
quill, which also change the reach.

- In theory, threadless is lighter. But if you get a stem with any kind of adjustability, you forego
any weight gain.

- Threadless is easier to fix on the road as you don't need to carry a cumbersome headset tool.

- With threadless, there is one less joint to crack. So if you hear handlebar noise, it's
easier to find.

- A threadless headset is stronger, but I think it's much more due to the fact typical threadless is
1 1/8" whereas threaded is 1" in nominal diametre. The added strength is more important for
off-road riding than on-road riding. Threaded headsets worked for many years on road and touring
without problems, however.

Michel

 

[Peter Cole]

"Hjalmar Duklæt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hi, What's the advantage of a threadless headset over an oldfashioned threaded one? Is the
> threaded one stiffer/lighter? Would it improve my riding in any way going from threaded to
> threadless?

The single big advantage of threadless is that they don't corrode themselves stuck like quill stems
(and seat posts).

 

[Werehatrack]

On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 12:07:00 -0400, "David L. Johnson" <[email protected]> may have said:

>On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 13:59:04 +0000, Richard Ney wrote:
>
>> Hjalmar Duklæt writes:
>>
>>> What's the advantage of a threadless headset over an oldfashioned threaded one? Is the threaded
>>> one stiffer/lighter? Would it improve my riding in any way going from threaded to threadless?
>>
>> There's no movement in the threadless steerer-stem connection, as there is in a stem using a
>> wedge. The threadless stem clamps directly to the steerer.
>
>Along with lots of other imaginary advantages. Would it improve your riding? No. Is there movement
>between the stem and steerer tube in threaded fork? If you grab the front wheel and twist the bars,
>maybe, but you do not twist the bars like that when riding. Remember, you can control your bike
>riding no hands, so the amount of stress your stem will be under in turning the bike is very, very
>small. Most stress on any stem is just from you resting part of your weight on the bars.

As one who has yanked the quill entirely out of the tube, I can tell you that this is a dangerous
assumption to make. Riders can and will *pull* on the bars when pedalling hard. Sometimes hard
*vertically*. This remains true whether it's advisable and safe or not. This would seem to mitigate
in favor of the threadless design; the attachment method is probably stronger, but as you note, the
reality is that threadless fork setups can be a pain to get matched to a rider.

And, unfortunately, at present, threading the tube is stinking expensive.

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail. Yes, I have a killfile. If I
don't respond to something, it's also possible that I'm busy.

 

[Rick Onanian]

On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 12:07:00 -0400, David L. Johnson <[email protected]> wrote:
> again, every time you mess around with the stem, you have to re-adjust the bearings.

Care to elaborate? I've adjusted and changes stems on my threadless-stem road bike a few times, and
if I missed something important, I'd like to know...

Which bearings, and what type of adjustment?

--
Rick Onanian

 

[Bob M]

On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 15:39:02 -0400, Rick Onanian <[email protected]> wrote:

> On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 12:07:00 -0400, David L. Johnson <[email protected]> wrote:
>> again, every time you mess around with the stem, you have to re-adjust the bearings.
>
> Care to elaborate? I've adjusted and changes stems on my threadless-stem road bike a few times,
> and if I missed something important, I'd like to know...
>
> Which bearings, and what type of adjustment?
>

Basically, you tighten the bolt on the cap until you feel no play in the headset (which can be done
by grabbing the front brakes and pushing the bike forward). That's the adjustment. On a threaded
headset, it's the same adjustment, only you tighten large nuts that go around the steerer tube.

--
Bob M in CT Remove 'x.' to reply

 

[Kyle Brooks]

Everyone is riding threadless?? And those that do ride with quill stems are the "lamers" in the "B"
group with 32 spoke wheels??

I own 7 bikes, including racing, touring, and track. Not one of them takes a threadless headset.

In our local cycling haven, where on any given ride I encounter dozens of cyclists every day,
including several clubs and a couple racing teams, I have never been dropped by another rider or
group. Except once, and that guy who dropped me did it on a lugged steel mid 80's Pinarello with a
quill stem and 32 spoke wheels.

On the other hand, I frequently will come upon riders with the latest carbon fiber or titanium and
aero wheeled wizardry, catch them, pass them, and drop them. Sometimes they'll try to hang on for a
while, but then drop back wheezing for air when we hit the hills. If they aren't that good of a
rider, the bike isn't helping them. "It's not the bike -- it's the rider" is a tired cliche -- but
it's true nonetheless.

Anybody who thinks that a threadless headset can make them faster needs a reality check.

"Fabrizio Mazzoleni" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> David L. Johnson wrote in message ...
> >>
> >With a quill stem (that is, with a threaded fork and headset),
>
> Dave, when was the last time you saw anyone riding with those old things, these days everyone ride
> threadless.
>
> And if you do see guys with quill stems on the next ride then find another group to ride with,
> because they are the 'B' group. Those are probably the same lamers that are running conventional
> 32 spoke wheels. Not the types you want to been seen with!

 

[Rick Onanian]

On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 18:31:12 GMT, Werehatrack <[email protected]> wrote:
> As one who has yanked the quill entirely out of the tube, I can tell you that this is a dangerous
> assumption to make. Riders can and will *pull* on the bars when pedalling hard. Sometimes hard
> *vertically*. This remains true whether it's advisable and safe or not. This would seem to
> mitigate in favor of the threadless design; the attachment method is probably stronger, but as you
> note, the reality is that

Stronger or not, the threadless may give more warning. You may notice that it's working it's way off
the steerer earlier than you would notice a threadless working it's way out of the head.

I don't know. I've never had either one happen.

--
Rick Onanian

 

[Mike S.]

"Kyle Brooks" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Everyone is riding threadless?? And those that do ride with quill stems are the "lamers" in the
> "B" group with 32 spoke wheels??
>
> I own 7 bikes, including racing, touring, and track. Not one of them takes
a
> threadless headset.
>
> In our local cycling haven, where on any given ride I encounter dozens of cyclists every day,
> including several clubs and a couple racing teams, I have never been dropped by another rider or
> group. Except once, and that
guy
> who dropped me did it on a lugged steel mid 80's Pinarello with a quill
stem
> and 32 spoke wheels.
>
> On the other hand, I frequently will come upon riders with the latest
carbon
> fiber or titanium and aero wheeled wizardry, catch them, pass them, and
drop
> them. Sometimes they'll try to hang on for a while, but then drop back wheezing for air when we
> hit the hills. If they aren't that good of a
rider,
> the bike isn't helping them. "It's not the bike -- it's the rider" is a tired cliche -- but it's
> true nonetheless.

EVERYbody knows that it isn't the guys on the fancy new bikes ya gotta watch out for, its the guys
on the beat up POS bikes that'll kick your ****! They actually RIDE their bikes! (not do what I do
and hang them in the garage and clean off imaginary dirt.)

Mike

>
> Anybody who thinks that a threadless headset can make them faster needs a reality check.
>

Of course it'll make you faster. Why else would you buy one?

Riding faster is just about as much mental as it is physical.

Mike

 

[Jobst Brandt]

"Threadless headset" is a lame name for an improvement that had such a long time to market. The
quill stem, aka, the creaking, wobbling, permanently stuck stem, was always a weak part on the
bicycle that has been relieved of duty by this innovation. The main feature is not the headset with
its lack of threads, but the stem and its solid reliable and removable attachment to the steer tube.
However, the head bearing can be adjusted in a trifle, without two ungainly 8-point end wrenches.
The whole job can be done with an Allen wrench. Besides that, for the weight weenies, it's lighter.

For safety and reliability, get a stem that has two screws on the steer tube end and four on the
front plate so that a one screw failure will not let the handlebar go free.

Jobst Brandt [email protected] Palo Alto CA

 

[Gary Young]

"Hjalmar Duklæt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> Hi, What's the advantage of a threadless headset over an oldfashioned threaded one? Is the
> threaded one stiffer/lighter? Would it improve my riding in any way going from threaded to
> threadless? Hjalmar

As Peter Cole mentioned, a threadless stem won't get corroded stuck. If you've never had a
threaded stem get stuck because of sweat dripping into the gap, then that advantage probably won't
mean much to you.

A drawback to the threaded design that hasn't been mentioned is that you can break the steerer if
you're not careful in getting the wedge below the threaded area.

 

[David L. Johnso]

On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 20:14:14 +0000, Bob M wrote:

> On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 15:39:02 -0400, Rick Onanian <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 12:07:00 -0400, David L. Johnson <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> again, every time you mess around with the stem, you have to re-adjust the bearings.
>>
>> Care to elaborate? I've adjusted and changes stems on my threadless-stem road bike a few times,
>> and if I missed something important, I'd like to know...
>>
>> Which bearings, and what type of adjustment?
>>
>>
> Basically, you tighten the bolt on the cap until you feel no play in the headset (which can be
> done by grabbing the front brakes and pushing the bike forward). That's the adjustment. On a
> threaded headset, it's the same adjustment, only you tighten large nuts that go around the
> steerer tube.

But you only do the adjustment on a threaded headset once. For threadless, you have to re-do each
time you change anything about the stem. When you remove the stem of a threadless headset, the whole
headset assembly is loose.

Yes, it's simple enough to re-adjust, though I do not like the idea of trying to adjust the preload
if the bearings are not clean and well-lubed.

We have all heard about people who couldn't adjust the preload on their hubs; I see no reason to
presume they could adjust the preload on a headset, either. For them, raising the bar height means a
trip to the mechanic.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | When you are up to your ass in alligators, it's hard to remember _`\(,_ | that your initial
objective was to drain the swamp. -- LBJ (_)/ (_) |

 

[Rick Onanian]

On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 20:14:14 GMT, Bob M <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Which bearings, and what type of adjustment?
>
> Basically, you tighten the bolt on the cap until you feel no play in the headset (which can be
> done by grabbing the front brakes and pushing the bike forward). That's the adjustment. On a
> threaded headset, it's the

The bolt in the cap is functional beyond holding the cap on?

Okay, well, I bolted the cap pretty tight anyway, and haven't noticed any play. I'll check
sometime soon.

--
Rick Onanian