Threshold workouts and gearing on the KK turbo trainer

[Ade Merckx]

Ok so I've got a KK turbo trainer and realised I may have been a bit of a softy. I can hold 280watts at 53/17 av cadence 92rpms quite comfortably during 3 x 20's. However switiching to 53/16 or 15 I feel the strain a little bit more at roughly same cadence but av watts jumps to 305watts.

A 2 x 20 is just managable but my thighs are really sore after this workout despite the result (wattage output) which is much more pleasing. Shall I just endeavour with this gearing despite the sorer legs. Interestingly my breathing doesn't appear to be anymore laboured using the bigger gear. I've tried spinning 53/17 quicker but after a few mins it becomes quite fatiguing. What d'ya think guys

 

[wiredued]

I'm surprised a one tooth difference would feel that uncomfortable I have two teeth difference between cogs on my 8 speed cassette and have to use the middle ring some times. I have a collection of middle rings to get just the right change in cadence (38t, 39t, 40t) right now I have the 39t middle and the 52t big ring. I just spin a little faster then ease up and shift between chain rings I would prefer to have a tight cluster on the back wheel though. This site helps me pick the right combination. http://www.kreuzotter.de/english/ecadence.htm

 

[dhk2]

Ok so I've got a KK turbo trainer and realised I may have been a bit of a softy. I can hold 280watts at 53/17 av cadence 92rpms quite comfortably during 3 x 20's. However switiching to 53/16 or 15 I feel the strain a little bit more at roughly same cadence but av watts jumps to 305watts.

A 2 x 20 is just managable but my thighs are really sore after this workout despite the result (wattage output) which is much more pleasing. Shall I just endeavour with this gearing despite the sorer legs. Interestingly my breathing doesn't appear to be anymore laboured using the bigger gear. I've tried spinning 53/17 quicker but after a few mins it becomes quite fatiguing. What d'ya think guys

Not surprising at all, as the jump from 280 watts to 305 is a big one. I'm not an exercise physiologist or scientist, but I'd try staying with 53/17 for most intervals, working to increase cadence in small steps up to 95-100. Would go up to the 16 gear and the higher watts output when your legs feel really rested and strong, perhaps once each week or ten days. Others here may have better or more specific advice, but a lot of it is just finding out what works best for you at your current level of conditioning.

 

[frenchyge]

I prefer to use a mix of cadences and gearing, including some periods of standing on the 53x11.

Heart rate and breathing rate will be a little lower with the lower cadences, which will feel more comfortable until the legs start to die.

 

[kant314]

I've noticed a similar thing RE the gearing and exertion required on the KK.
I tend to do my sets on the 53x16 but if I go to the 15 cog, I find it almost impossible to maintain the same power without getting sore legs.

 

[BullGod]

I've noticed a similar thing RE the gearing and exertion required on the KK.
I tend to do my sets on the 53x16 but if I go to the 15 cog, I find it almost impossible to maintain the same power without getting sore legs.

I am doing 30min x 280w on the 39 x 15 at a cadence of 100-110

If I do a 300w + I ride on the 53 x 17/19/21, again at a higher cadence.

I figure I should do my workouts at (or even above) my racing cadence.

I never race below 80-85 cadence so I don't see what benefit training L4 there would give me.

 

[Ade Merckx]

I am doing 30min x 280w on the 39 x 15 at a cadence of 100-110

If I do a 300w + I ride on the 53 x 17/19/21, again at a higher cadence.

I figure I should do my workouts at (or even above) my racing cadence.

I never race below 80-85 cadence so I don't see what benefit training L4 there would give me.

Yeah cool, I did a 1 x 20 at 304watt today in 53/17 so i guess its possible. My naturally selected cadence tends to be 88-90rpms but I guess its worth trying to hold 95rpms as DHK2 says. I'm always trying to cut corners

 

[BullGod]

My performance in cycling has increased significantly (from cat 3 to elite in 2 seasons) since I started doing intervals at high cadence (95-110) and generally raised my "normal" cycling cadence to 90 odd.

Holding 300w in a big gear at a low cadence is actually a lot easier than doing it on the little ring ;-) - sure that's tough on your legs, but the stress on your HR and lungs is more evident with a higher cadence.

 

[Ade Merckx]

My performance in cycling has increased significantly (from cat 3 to elite in 2 seasons) since I started doing intervals at high cadence (95-110) and generally raised my "normal" cycling cadence to 90 odd.

Holding 300w in a big gear at a low cadence is actually a lot easier than doing it on the little ring ;-) - sure that's tough on your legs, but the stress on your HR and lungs is more evident with a higher cadence.

can I ask why or even what sessions you do 30mins x 280watts in when you're FT is approximately 350watts?

 

[BullGod]

can I ask why or even what sessions you do 30mins x 280watts in when you're FT is approximately 350watts?

sure - I don't want to start specifically training L4 until january. Right now I'm working the sweet spot. Roughly between 260 and 280w. I tend to do 30/40 min blocks with 5-10 mins active recovery between each....usually 2-4 intervals per session. Just gives some variation as much for mental focus as anything else. My team and coaches are really warning us off doing any intensity right now - 4 hr rides on the little ring at 28km/h seem to be the order of the day. F&*k doing that on the hometrainer when it's snowing! I did manage a 3hr ride at a continuous 250-275w the other week though.

will probably start to work L4 in jan....2/3 x 20 at 300 in week 1, 315 in week 2 and so on til I hopefully break through 350 - then I hope the L5 / 6 work can raise it another couple of notches.

 

[Ade Merckx]

sure - I don't want to start specifically training L4 until january. Right now I'm working the sweet spot. Roughly between 260 and 280w. I tend to do 30/40 min blocks with 5-10 mins active recovery between each....usually 2-4 intervals per session. Just gives some variation as much for mental focus as anything else. My team and coaches are really warning us off doing any intensity right now - 4 hr rides on the little ring at 28km/h seem to be the order of the day. F&*k doing that on the hometrainer when it's snowing! I did manage a 3hr ride at a continuous 250-275w the other week though.

will probably start to work L4 in jan....2/3 x 20 at 300 in week 1, 315 in week 2 and so on til I hopefully break through 350 - then I hope the L5 / 6 work can raise it another couple of notches.

ok but a few L4 session per week shouldn't be that fatiguing for an aerobic giant like yourself; were you burnt out last season?

 

[BullGod]

ok but a few L4 session per week shouldn't be that fatiguing for an aerobic giant like yourself; were you burnt out last season?

No not at all.....but I maintained intensity (including L5/6) all through winter and didn't really peak or improve as the season got going.

Next year will be my first season in the elites, and will be riding classics and longer crits (100km) - I want to have a much bigger base. Right now I feel that the more hours i build up in the sweet spot and the more weekend endurance rides I do the harder I'm gonna go when I hit the 4/5/6 come january....at least that's the plan....right now I haven't trained for a week and am about to head to the UK for xmas off the bike so we'll have to see how we feel next week....probably hungover and fat!

 

[kant314]

what gave you the idea of doing high cadence intervals in order to improve?

 

[BullGod]

what gave you the idea of doing high cadence intervals in order to improve?

i saw that all the best cyclists around here (Holland) were riding high cadence....i was also racing mainly technical crits where an easier gear and higher cadence gives you more acceloration out of corners.

 

[kant314]

i saw that all the best cyclists around here (Holland) were riding high cadence....i was also racing mainly technical crits where an easier gear and higher cadence gives you more acceloration out of corners.

interesting stuff.
So you were a third cat for a few years, took up high cadence intervals and woosh!! you became an Elite?

 

[wfrogge]

What are you using to get these power numbers? *the KK computer or a PT/SRM*

 

[vetboy]

What are you using to get these power numbers? *the KK computer or a PT/SRM*

I have the same question. According to the OP, 92rpm in 53x17 is 36.44KPH (according to analytical cycling) or 340 watts on a KK- not 280 as he says. I sure wish I could hold 340watts "quite comfortably" for 2x20.

Joe

 

[Ade Merckx]

I have the same question. According to the OP, 92rpm in 53x17 is 36.44KPH (according to analytical cycling) or 340 watts on a KK- not 280 as he says. I sure wish I could hold 340watts "quite comfortably" for 2x20.

Joe

HA Ha no way dude, if could bang out 340 watts as 2 x 20's I'd be in dreamland. There's lots of info on K K's trainers do a search.

 

[Ade Merckx]

My performance in cycling has increased significantly (from cat 3 to elite in 2 seasons) since I started doing intervals at high cadence (95-110) and generally raised my "normal" cycling cadence to 90 odd.

Holding 300w in a big gear at a low cadence is actually a lot easier than doing it on the little ring ;-) - sure that's tough on your legs, but the stress on your HR and lungs is more evident with a higher cadence.

Thanks for the cadence tip Bulldog and DKH2. I stuck with 53/17 and upted the cadence to the mid nineties. I just managed a christmas day 3 x 20: power output 312w, 304w and 301w av hrt 168bpm

 

[robuk]

Thanks for the cadence tip Bulldog and DKH2. I stuck with 53/17 and upted the cadence to the mid nineties. I just managed a christmas day 3 x 20: power output 312w, 304w and 301w av hrt 168bpm

No excuses now Ade! See you on a club run soon!

Rob