throat chakra hot spot



"Tom" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Two_Bears" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > "Tom" <[email protected]> wrote
> >
> > > You're using a tautology. "Overloading your system means overloading
> your
> > > system." What's the load? What's the carrying capacity of the
system?
> >
> > Every person's energy system is as unique as a fingerprint. What may be perfectly safe for you,
> > me, and 90% of the people on this planet; may be dangerous for your neighbor down the street.
> > May I remind you of people
> that
> > go into shock from eating something as simple as peanuts or crab meat.
> >
> > A person practising Qigong, Tai Chi, etc MUST listen to the subtle signs coming from their body
> > instead of using the approach "no pain no gain"
>
> I think you are using pseudo-physics to talk about feelings. When we try to talk about this stuff
> using the terminology of physics, we get bogged down. When we talk about it as feelings, though,
> we may be able to make some headway in understanding each other.
>
> > > Many things can upset digestion and sleep patterns other than endocrine system malfunctions.
> > > How do you know that's what it is and how do you know what caused it?
> >
> > True; but those other possible causes do not reach the severity where
the
> > person begin to experience non physical reality, and unable to discern
> the
> > difference between physical and non physical reality.
>
> See? Once we start talking about endocrine functions, we are talking
about
> a physical phenomenon. When we are talking about feelings, there might
not
> be anything physical to measure. So, discussing Qi as feelings instead of as some mysterious form
> of "non-physical energy" might be more productive.
>
>
>
Ahhh! its clear now, you do NOT understand Qi.
 
"Tom" <[email protected]> wrote

> I think you are using pseudo-physics to talk about feelings. When we try to talk about this stuff
> using the terminology of physics, we get bogged

No I'm not, Every one's energy pathways are different.

Some weight lifters can lift 400 pounds easier than other people can lift 50 pounds.

Running too much Qi through some people can have harmful results. The only one qualified to state
when it is too much is the person, and they do that by paying attention to the subtle signals from
their body.

> See? Once we start talking about endocrine functions, we are talking
about
> a physical phenomenon. When we are talking about feelings, there might
not
> be anything physical to measure. So, discussing Qi as feelings instead of as some mysterious form
> of "non-physical energy" might be more productive.

You asked for symptoms of an out of sorts endocrine system, and I thought you should know about the
more extreme symptom unable to discern the difference between physical and non physical reality.

Qi at present can't be measured easily without using kirlian photograpgy and can sometimes be
subjective.

I see that you chose to ignore the point about the poor guy that will have to take life sustaining
medication for the rest of his life, and take testosterone pills or patches if he wants to get laid.
His body is producing hormones now. The pituitary gland is the master gland guring life it produces
6 hormones, and some of those hormones regulate the other glands of the endocrine system. You
ignored the handfull of people I helped repair the damage.
 
"tools" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Tom" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > "tools" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > >
> > > "Tom" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > news:[email protected]...
> > > >
> > > > It's my impression that understanding medical conditions like this is pretty complicated and
> > > > requires a considerable amount of careful research using a large number of subjects.
> > > >
> > > > The methods used by magicians and mystics, who are essentially hermits when it comes to
> > > > their research, are not suited for this kind of study.
> > >
> > > Tom, I suspect that you know very little about Qi , and it's uses and symptoms. Unfortunately,
> > > very few doctors know anything at all about
it.
> >
> > Oh, I know a bit about the lore connected with Qi. Probably not as
much
> as
> > you do, though. I'm willing to stipulate that. However, what I'm
talking
> > about is not lore about Qi in general, but about carefully conducted scientific research into
> > the effect of Qi on endocrine glands and their disorders. My point is that there isn't any.
> >
> > How much do *you* know about endocrine disorders, their causes and
cures?
> > I suspect it's very little.
> >
> > How much do you know about the methodology of disease research? I
suspect
> > that's very little, too.
> >
> You might find some of what you want by checking the research being done
in
> a Qi Gong hospital. China has much research ongoing about the effects.

Do you think the claim I originally questioned is based on any published research at all? I suspect
it wasn't.

I'd be happy to look at any actual research that might be available. You haven't mentioned
any, though.
 
"Two_Bears" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> Tom:
>
> Back in the late 60s and 70s; eastern studies and philosophy began to
take a
> hold here in the west; and the people here in the west had bought into
the
> philosophy "no pain no gain", so they began using the same aproach when
they
> began studyinh Yoga, Qigong, Tai Chi, etc.
>
> I have heard that several of those completely came unglued, and some
> psychologists or psychiatrists coined the term Qigong Psychosis for their problem.

According to Dr. H H Shan MD, Director, Department of Social and Cross Culture Psychiatry, Shanghai
XuHui Mental Health Center, Shanghai, China, qigong psychosis is a culture-bound syndrome that
affects believers in qigong. Sometimes it occurs in people who have properly performed qigong
exercises, not just inappropriate practices. The concepts of qigong are not fully defined and there
are more than 400 different methods of doing qigong exercises. Which ones are the "proper" ones? How
do you know?

One wonders if such effects are a product of belief rather than the physical effects of the
exercises themselves.
 
"Tom" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "tools" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > "Tom" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > >
> > > "tools" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > news:[email protected]...
> > > >
> > > > "Tom" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > > news:[email protected]...
> > > > >
> > > > > It's my impression that understanding medical conditions like this is pretty complicated
> > > > > and requires a considerable amount of careful research using a large number of subjects.
> > > > >
> > > > > The methods used by magicians and mystics, who are essentially hermits when it comes to
> > > > > their research, are not suited for this kind of study.
> > > >
> > > > Tom, I suspect that you know very little about Qi , and it's uses
and
> > > > symptoms. Unfortunately, very few doctors know anything at all about
> it.
> > >
> > > Oh, I know a bit about the lore connected with Qi. Probably not as
> much
> > as
> > > you do, though. I'm willing to stipulate that. However, what I'm
> talking
> > > about is not lore about Qi in general, but about carefully conducted scientific research into
> > > the effect of Qi on endocrine glands and
their
> > > disorders. My point is that there isn't any.
> > >
> > > How much do *you* know about endocrine disorders, their causes and
> cures?
> > > I suspect it's very little.
> > >
> > > How much do you know about the methodology of disease research? I
> suspect
> > > that's very little, too.
> > >
> > You might find some of what you want by checking the research being done
> in
> > a Qi Gong hospital. China has much research ongoing about the effects.
>
> Do you think the claim I originally questioned is based on any published research at all? I
> suspect it wasn't.
>
> I'd be happy to look at any actual research that might be available. You haven't mentioned
> any, though.
>
>
>
You have not looked at anything with a search engine? China Qi Gong Research Hospitals
 
"Tom" <[email protected]> wrote

> Do you think the claim I originally questioned is based on any published research at all? I
> suspect it wasn't.
>
> I'd be happy to look at any actual research that might be available. You haven't mentioned
> any, though.

Now I know where I have seen his E-Mail address before. He used to post, and may still post in
alt.magick.

When I encountered him he was a debunker "Don't confuse me with the facts; my mind is
already made up."

I fear you are wasting your time on Tom.

Aloha nui loa; Two Bears.

Received the title 'master' 8 times; and STILL working on self mastery. Click the link to read my
HUNA intro. http://www.geocities.com/huna101
 
On Wed, 25 Jun 2003 21:08:19 GMT, "tools" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>"Tom" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> > > One wonders if such effects are a product of belief rather than the physical effects of the
>> > > exercises themselves.
>> > >
>> > Well you could find a Qi Gong master, and ask him/her to prove it to
>you.
>> > But being a good little troll, you won't do that.
>>
>> Kind of hostile response to a thoughtful message.
>>
>> Well, I guess that tells me all I need to know about you.
>>
>>
>Well, GOOD, now crawl back under your rock.
>

Actually, I had the same basic question, just hadn't asked.

Are the effects the product of belief, or of the physical exercises?

What's the problem with asking? What's the problem with answering?
 
"Two_Bears" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> "Tom" <[email protected]> wrote
>
> > I think you are using pseudo-physics to talk about feelings. When we
try
> > to talk about this stuff using the terminology of physics, we get
bogged
>
> No I'm not, Every one's energy pathways are different.
>
> Some weight lifters can lift 400 pounds easier than other people can lift
50
> pounds.
>
> Running too much Qi through some people can have harmful results. The
only
> one qualified to state when it is too much is the person, and they do
that
> by paying attention to the subtle signals from their body.

> You asked for symptoms of an out of sorts endocrine system,

Nope. Look again at what I actually wrote, instead of relying on your imagination-laced memory.

That's the problem with you pseudo-scientists, you're careless.

> Qi at present can't be measured easily without using kirlian photograpgy
and
> can sometimes be subjective.

Kirlian photography? You've fallen for that old rot? Now you're confusing a simple gas corona
discharge with qi.

> I see that you chose to ignore the point about the poor guy that will
have
> to take life sustaining medication for the rest of his life,

I don't consider unverifiable personal anecdotes to be very good evidence.

In another message in this thread, you wrote, "I fear you are wasting your time on Tom."

You're right. You are wasting your time on me if that sort of blather is all you've got.
 
"Tom" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Two_Bears" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Tom:
> >
> > Back in the late 60s and 70s; eastern studies and philosophy began to
> take a
> > hold here in the west; and the people here in the west had bought into
> the
> > philosophy "no pain no gain", so they began using the same aproach when
> they
> > began studyinh Yoga, Qigong, Tai Chi, etc.
> >
> > I have heard that several of those completely came unglued, and some
> > psychologists or psychiatrists coined the term Qigong Psychosis for
their
> > problem.
>
> According to Dr. H H Shan MD, Director, Department of Social and Cross Culture Psychiatry,
> Shanghai XuHui Mental Health Center, Shanghai, China, qigong psychosis is a culture-bound syndrome
> that affects believers in qigong. Sometimes it occurs in people who have properly performed qigong
> exercises, not just inappropriate practices. The concepts of qigong are not fully defined and
> there are more than 400 different methods of doing qigong exercises. Which ones are the "proper"
> ones? How do you know?
>
> One wonders if such effects are a product of belief rather than the physical effects of the
> exercises themselves.
>
>
>
Well you could find a Qi Gong master, and ask him/her to prove it to you. But being a good little
troll, you won't do that.
 
"Two_Bears" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
> When I encountered him he was a debunker "Don't confuse me with the facts; my mind is already
> made up."

I've never been a "debunker" and I have never written what you put into quotes.

However, people whose beliefs are easily threatened and who haven't got enough evidence to back up
their silly claims have often made up quotes to attribute to me in an effort to erect a straw man.

> I fear you are wasting your time on Tom.

If what you're trying to do is bluff with a busted flush, you are indeed wasting your time on me.
 
"tools" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Tom" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > "Two_Bears" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > Tom:
> > >
> > > Back in the late 60s and 70s; eastern studies and philosophy began to
> > take a
> > > hold here in the west; and the people here in the west had bought
into
> > the
> > > philosophy "no pain no gain", so they began using the same aproach
when
> > they
> > > began studyinh Yoga, Qigong, Tai Chi, etc.
> > >
> > > I have heard that several of those completely came unglued, and some
> > > psychologists or psychiatrists coined the term Qigong Psychosis for
> their
> > > problem.
> >
> > According to Dr. H H Shan MD, Director, Department of Social and Cross Culture Psychiatry,
> > Shanghai XuHui Mental Health Center, Shanghai,
China,
> > qigong psychosis is a culture-bound syndrome that affects believers in qigong. Sometimes it
> > occurs in people who have properly performed
qigong
> > exercises, not just inappropriate practices. The concepts of qigong
are
> > not fully defined and there are more than 400 different methods of
doing
> > qigong exercises. Which ones are the "proper" ones? How do you know?
> >
> > One wonders if such effects are a product of belief rather than the physical effects of the
> > exercises themselves.
> >
> Well you could find a Qi Gong master, and ask him/her to prove it to you. But being a good little
> troll, you won't do that.

Kind of hostile response to a thoughtful message.

Well, I guess that tells me all I need to know about you.
 
"Tom" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Two_Bears" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > When I encountered him he was a debunker "Don't confuse me with the facts; my mind is already
> > made up."
>
> I've never been a "debunker" and I have never written what you put into quotes.
>
> However, people whose beliefs are easily threatened and who haven't got enough evidence to back up
> their silly claims have often made up quotes to attribute to me in an effort to erect a straw man.
>
> > I fear you are wasting your time on Tom.
>
> If what you're trying to do is bluff with a busted flush, you are indeed wasting your time on me.
>
>
Damn! Tom, were you dropped on your head?
 
"Tom" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "tools" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > "Tom" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > >
> > > "Two_Bears" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > news:[email protected]...
> > > > Tom:
> > > >
> > > > Back in the late 60s and 70s; eastern studies and philosophy began
to
> > > take a
> > > > hold here in the west; and the people here in the west had bought
> into
> > > the
> > > > philosophy "no pain no gain", so they began using the same aproach
> when
> > > they
> > > > began studyinh Yoga, Qigong, Tai Chi, etc.
> > > >
> > > > I have heard that several of those completely came unglued, and some
> > > > psychologists or psychiatrists coined the term Qigong Psychosis for
> > their
> > > > problem.
> > >
> > > According to Dr. H H Shan MD, Director, Department of Social and Cross Culture Psychiatry,
> > > Shanghai XuHui Mental Health Center, Shanghai,
> China,
> > > qigong psychosis is a culture-bound syndrome that affects believers in qigong. Sometimes it
> > > occurs in people who have properly performed
> qigong
> > > exercises, not just inappropriate practices. The concepts of qigong
> are
> > > not fully defined and there are more than 400 different methods of
> doing
> > > qigong exercises. Which ones are the "proper" ones? How do you know?
> > >
> > > One wonders if such effects are a product of belief rather than the physical effects of the
> > > exercises themselves.
> > >
> > Well you could find a Qi Gong master, and ask him/her to prove it to
you.
> > But being a good little troll, you won't do that.
>
> Kind of hostile response to a thoughtful message.
>
> Well, I guess that tells me all I need to know about you.
>
>
>
Well, GOOD, now crawl back under your rock.
 
In article <[email protected]>, Tom
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Two_Bears" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> Tom:
>>
>> Back in the late 60s and 70s; eastern studies and philosophy began to take a hold here in the
>> west; and the people here in the west had bought into the philosophy "no pain no gain", so they
>> began using the same aproach when they began studyinh Yoga, Qigong, Tai Chi, etc.
>>
>> I have heard that several of those completely came unglued, and some
>> psychologists or psychiatrists coined the term Qigong Psychosis for their problem.
>
>According to Dr. H H Shan MD, Director, Department of Social and Cross Culture Psychiatry, Shanghai
>XuHui Mental Health Center, Shanghai, China, qigong psychosis is a culture-bound syndrome that
>affects believers in qigong. Sometimes it occurs in people who have properly performed qigong
>exercises, not just inappropriate practices. The concepts of qigong are not fully defined and there
>are more than 400 different methods of doing qigong exercises. Which ones are the "proper" ones?
>How do you know?
>
>One wonders if such effects are a product of belief rather than the physical effects of the
>exercises themselves.

According to my own teacher, the confusion here is because qigong can refer both to the physical
exercises, and to meditation -- and it's the latter that, when overdone, can lead to psychosis.

-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net These are my opinions only, but they're almost always
correct. "If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants were standing on my
shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)
 
"David Wright" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, Tom
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >
> >According to Dr. H H Shan MD, Director, Department of Social and Cross Culture Psychiatry,
> >Shanghai XuHui Mental Health Center, Shanghai,
China,
> >qigong psychosis is a culture-bound syndrome that affects believers in qigong. Sometimes it
> >occurs in people who have properly performed
qigong
> >exercises, not just inappropriate practices. The concepts of qigong are not fully defined and
> >there are more than 400 different methods of doing qigong exercises. Which ones are the "proper"
> >ones? How do you know?
> >
> >One wonders if such effects are a product of belief rather than the physical effects of the
> >exercises themselves.
>
> According to my own teacher, the confusion here is because qigong can refer both to the physical
> exercises, and to meditation -- and it's the latter that, when overdone, can lead to psychosis.

That contradicts some of the case histories I've found.

http://www.hrw.org/reports/2002/china02/china0802-17.htm

Case 1: Mr. A is a 22-year-old unmarried worker. He began to learn himself from Qigong books the "Wu
Qin Xi" (exercise mimicking the gestures of five animals) on November 26, 1984 for the treatment of
lumbago. Ten days later, he suddenly had "special cenesthesiopathy" with "Qi" flowing adversely in
the head and abdomen. When "Qi" flowed into his head, he felt fullness of head and chest distress.
When showing a Qigong gesture, he suffered agony and anxiety, even attempting to commit suicide. Two
hours later he was sent to Shanghai Institute of Qigong for help. Guided by a Qigong master he
recovered. The next day he became delirious and claimed that he could hear the voice of evil
spirits; he prayed to Buddha for help but only lost his self control. During the intervals of the
attacks, the patient was normal. But he could not work normally due to insomnia and difficulty in
coping with Qigong deviation.

Case 2: Mr. B is a 44-year-old married painter. He learned on his own the "He Xiang Zhuang"
(crane-flying Qigong), another school of Qigong in February 1984, attempting to treat his ailment,
the hypertrophy of cervical vertebra. He had no personal psychiatric history, neither his family.
Several days after Qigong exercise, he was suddenly agitated with hyperthymia. He claimed that he
knew everything in the world, "water is associated with the sea," when he talked about the sea, he
would "think of the American continent." Three days later, he was diagnosed as schizophrenia-like
disorder and was treated in Shanghai Psychiatric Hospital. One month later he had remission. Later
he turned to learn the "Long Men Five Flow," another school of Qigong. On the third morning he
suddenly began to cry and dance, still doing Qigong exercise in bed. He thought that his dead mother
would be brought back to life whereas he would become a ghost. He said that he could see Buddha and
God, and he believed in religion. He also smelt something unusual. He was again admitted to Shanghai
Psychiatric Hospital.

Now, I'm not familiar with these particular exercises, so I may well be mistaken, but they seem to
be physical exercises rather than strictly meditation.
 
"Tom" <[email protected]> wrote

> recovered. The next day he became delirious and claimed that he could hear the voice of evil
> spirits; he prayed to Buddha for help but only lost his self control. During the intervals of the
> attacks, the patient was normal.

Does my earlier message that in extreme condition the person with a mucked up endocrine system would
be unable to discern the difference between physical and non physical reality sound familiar?

What this report did not state was how much the person practised the exercizes, and the signals he
received from his body, and if he ignored them.

> Now, I'm not familiar with these particular exercises, so I may well be mistaken, but they seem to
> be physical exercises rather than strictly meditation.

Meditation is not the only way to overload the energy pathways.

I had my first Qi overload by standing in a complex Zhan Zhuang posture. My sifu had given me the
symptoms of a Qi overload; so I stopped the practise and ate a sandwich and went outside.

Aloha nui loa; Two Bears.

Received the title 'master' 8 times; and STILL working on self mastery. Click the link to read my
HUNA intro. http://www.geocities.com/huna101
 
"Brett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 25 Jun 2003 21:08:19 GMT, "tools" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Tom" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >> > > One wonders if such effects are a product of belief rather than the physical effects of the
> >> > > exercises themselves.
> >> > >
> >> > Well you could find a Qi Gong master, and ask him/her to prove it to
> >you.
> >> > But being a good little troll, you won't do that.
> >>
> >> Kind of hostile response to a thoughtful message.
> >>
> >> Well, I guess that tells me all I need to know about you.
> >>
> >>
> >Well, GOOD, now crawl back under your rock.
> >
>
> Actually, I had the same basic question, just hadn't asked.
>
> Are the effects the product of belief, or of the physical exercises?
>
> What's the problem with asking? What's the problem with answering?
>
The problem with asking is with the attitude of the person asking. No problem with answering, it
just seems if one wants to know about Qi Gong, one should seek someone well versed . A Qi Gong
master can answer such questions far better than I.
 
"Tom" <[email protected]> wrote

> According to Dr. H H Shan MD, Director, Department of Social and Cross Culture Psychiatry,
> Shanghai XuHui Mental Health Center, Shanghai, China, qigong psychosis is a culture-bound syndrome
> that affects believers in

So the diagnosis Qigong psychosis was not an urban legend then. Thank you for the confirmation.

> qigong. Sometimes it occurs in people who have properly performed qigong exercises, not just
> inappropriate practices. The concepts of qigong are

Thanks for the additional information.

> not fully defined and there are more than 400 different methods of doing qigong exercises. Which
> ones are the "proper" ones? How do you know?

Then this proves that you do not understand Qigong.

Qi = Energy Gong = Work.

Any Chinese form of energy work falls under the Qigong umbrella. There are thousands of variants of
Qigong. Some have physical movements like Ba Duan Jin, Wah Nam, etc. Others have physical exercize;
but the practitioner stands relaxed and perfectly still like Zhan Zhuand, and others develop Qi
through the use of the mind such as Nei Gong, or Nei Dan, then there are egorms that combine two of
the three.

Aloha nui loa; Two Bears.

Received the title 'master' 8 times; and STILL working on self mastery. Click the link to read my
HUNA intro. http://www.geocities.com/huna101
 
"Tom" <[email protected]> wrote

> Kirlian photography? You've fallen for that old rot? Now you're
confusing
> a simple gas corona discharge with qi.

Then why do the hands of Qigong masters , Reiki masters, and other energy workers have a lighted
area 5-10 times as wide as normal people?

> You're right. You are wasting your time on me if that sort of blather is all you've got.

;-) your word usage "sort of blather" speaks volumes.

Aloha nui loa; Two Bears.

Received the title 'master' 8 times; and STILL working on self mastery. Click the link to read my
HUNA intro. http://www.geocities.com/huna101
 
On Thu, 26 Jun 2003 02:19:42 GMT, "Tom" <[email protected]> wrote:

<snip>

>Now, I'm not familiar with these particular exercises, so I may well be mistaken, but they seem to
>be physical exercises rather than strictly meditation.

Tom this is where a lack of experience and/or research causes misunderstanding and unnecessary
argument. Especially since the name of one of the newsgroups this thread has been crossposted to,
alt.meditation.qigong, should have been a big hint. :) Qigong exercises are not performed the same
way you would perform a routine in your aerobics class at the gym. The movements (when there are
movements--there are many different kinds of qigong) are done slowly, usually, but not always, with
relaxed muscles, with deep, slow, rhythmic, diaphramatic breathing and a relaxed state of mind. The
deep, slow breathing, also characteristic of various meditation and yoga practices, is what gives
qigong its name, "qi" meaning breath and "gong" meaning work. The moving varieties of qigong can be
characterized as a moving meditation.

The case histories you presented sound pretty bizarre. From the way they are written, I suspect that
the individuals involved already had some sort of major problem and that the qigong was just a
convenient scapegoat. Or maybe someone wanted to "prove" that qigong is a dangerous thing without an
experienced teacher to follow. (Maybe even a "real master" wanted to do this to help his business
situation) Or perhaps this is simply a case of "you can find anything you like to support any
position you like on the internet". But this is merely my hastily formed reaction based on what
little was present in your post, not on real research and experience of such situations, so YMMV. At
any rate, I'm not sure what you were trying to prove or demonstrate or give an example of with these
two particular case histories?

I hope this has been of some help. Any further replies from me concerning qigong will be limited to
alt.meditation.qigong. I fail to see why this is crossposted to the other 4 groups.

Garry
 
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