throat chakra hot spot

Discussion in 'Health and medical' started by David Dalton, Nov 1, 2003.

  1. Tools

    Tools Guest

    "Tom" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "Two_Bears" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > "Tom" <[email protected]> wrote
    > >
    > > > You're using a tautology. "Overloading your system means overloading
    > your
    > > > system." What's the load? What's the carrying capacity of the
    system?
    > >
    > > Every person's energy system is as unique as a fingerprint. What may be perfectly safe for you,
    > > me, and 90% of the people on this planet; may be dangerous for your neighbor down the street.
    > > May I remind you of people
    > that
    > > go into shock from eating something as simple as peanuts or crab meat.
    > >
    > > A person practising Qigong, Tai Chi, etc MUST listen to the subtle signs coming from their body
    > > instead of using the approach "no pain no gain"
    >
    > I think you are using pseudo-physics to talk about feelings. When we try to talk about this stuff
    > using the terminology of physics, we get bogged down. When we talk about it as feelings, though,
    > we may be able to make some headway in understanding each other.
    >
    > > > Many things can upset digestion and sleep patterns other than endocrine system malfunctions.
    > > > How do you know that's what it is and how do you know what caused it?
    > >
    > > True; but those other possible causes do not reach the severity where
    the
    > > person begin to experience non physical reality, and unable to discern
    > the
    > > difference between physical and non physical reality.
    >
    > See? Once we start talking about endocrine functions, we are talking
    about
    > a physical phenomenon. When we are talking about feelings, there might
    not
    > be anything physical to measure. So, discussing Qi as feelings instead of as some mysterious form
    > of "non-physical energy" might be more productive.
    >
    >
    >
    Ahhh! its clear now, you do NOT understand Qi.
     


  2. Two_bears

    Two_bears Guest

    "Tom" <[email protected]> wrote

    > I think you are using pseudo-physics to talk about feelings. When we try to talk about this stuff
    > using the terminology of physics, we get bogged

    No I'm not, Every one's energy pathways are different.

    Some weight lifters can lift 400 pounds easier than other people can lift 50 pounds.

    Running too much Qi through some people can have harmful results. The only one qualified to state
    when it is too much is the person, and they do that by paying attention to the subtle signals from
    their body.

    > See? Once we start talking about endocrine functions, we are talking
    about
    > a physical phenomenon. When we are talking about feelings, there might
    not
    > be anything physical to measure. So, discussing Qi as feelings instead of as some mysterious form
    > of "non-physical energy" might be more productive.

    You asked for symptoms of an out of sorts endocrine system, and I thought you should know about the
    more extreme symptom unable to discern the difference between physical and non physical reality.

    Qi at present can't be measured easily without using kirlian photograpgy and can sometimes be
    subjective.

    I see that you chose to ignore the point about the poor guy that will have to take life sustaining
    medication for the rest of his life, and take testosterone pills or patches if he wants to get laid.
    His body is producing hormones now. The pituitary gland is the master gland guring life it produces
    6 hormones, and some of those hormones regulate the other glands of the endocrine system. You
    ignored the handfull of people I helped repair the damage.
     
  3. Tom

    Tom Guest

    "tools" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "Tom" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > >
    > > "tools" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]...
    > > >
    > > > "Tom" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > >
    > > > > It's my impression that understanding medical conditions like this is pretty complicated and
    > > > > requires a considerable amount of careful research using a large number of subjects.
    > > > >
    > > > > The methods used by magicians and mystics, who are essentially hermits when it comes to
    > > > > their research, are not suited for this kind of study.
    > > >
    > > > Tom, I suspect that you know very little about Qi , and it's uses and symptoms. Unfortunately,
    > > > very few doctors know anything at all about
    it.
    > >
    > > Oh, I know a bit about the lore connected with Qi. Probably not as
    much
    > as
    > > you do, though. I'm willing to stipulate that. However, what I'm
    talking
    > > about is not lore about Qi in general, but about carefully conducted scientific research into
    > > the effect of Qi on endocrine glands and their disorders. My point is that there isn't any.
    > >
    > > How much do *you* know about endocrine disorders, their causes and
    cures?
    > > I suspect it's very little.
    > >
    > > How much do you know about the methodology of disease research? I
    suspect
    > > that's very little, too.
    > >
    > You might find some of what you want by checking the research being done
    in
    > a Qi Gong hospital. China has much research ongoing about the effects.

    Do you think the claim I originally questioned is based on any published research at all? I suspect
    it wasn't.

    I'd be happy to look at any actual research that might be available. You haven't mentioned
    any, though.
     
  4. Tom

    Tom Guest

    "Two_Bears" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > Tom:
    >
    > Back in the late 60s and 70s; eastern studies and philosophy began to
    take a
    > hold here in the west; and the people here in the west had bought into
    the
    > philosophy "no pain no gain", so they began using the same aproach when
    they
    > began studyinh Yoga, Qigong, Tai Chi, etc.
    >
    > I have heard that several of those completely came unglued, and some
    > psychologists or psychiatrists coined the term Qigong Psychosis for their problem.

    According to Dr. H H Shan MD, Director, Department of Social and Cross Culture Psychiatry, Shanghai
    XuHui Mental Health Center, Shanghai, China, qigong psychosis is a culture-bound syndrome that
    affects believers in qigong. Sometimes it occurs in people who have properly performed qigong
    exercises, not just inappropriate practices. The concepts of qigong are not fully defined and there
    are more than 400 different methods of doing qigong exercises. Which ones are the "proper" ones? How
    do you know?

    One wonders if such effects are a product of belief rather than the physical effects of the
    exercises themselves.
     
  5. Tools

    Tools Guest

    "Tom" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "tools" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > >
    > > "Tom" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]...
    > > >
    > > > "tools" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > >
    > > > > "Tom" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > > >
    > > > > > It's my impression that understanding medical conditions like this is pretty complicated
    > > > > > and requires a considerable amount of careful research using a large number of subjects.
    > > > > >
    > > > > > The methods used by magicians and mystics, who are essentially hermits when it comes to
    > > > > > their research, are not suited for this kind of study.
    > > > >
    > > > > Tom, I suspect that you know very little about Qi , and it's uses
    and
    > > > > symptoms. Unfortunately, very few doctors know anything at all about
    > it.
    > > >
    > > > Oh, I know a bit about the lore connected with Qi. Probably not as
    > much
    > > as
    > > > you do, though. I'm willing to stipulate that. However, what I'm
    > talking
    > > > about is not lore about Qi in general, but about carefully conducted scientific research into
    > > > the effect of Qi on endocrine glands and
    their
    > > > disorders. My point is that there isn't any.
    > > >
    > > > How much do *you* know about endocrine disorders, their causes and
    > cures?
    > > > I suspect it's very little.
    > > >
    > > > How much do you know about the methodology of disease research? I
    > suspect
    > > > that's very little, too.
    > > >
    > > You might find some of what you want by checking the research being done
    > in
    > > a Qi Gong hospital. China has much research ongoing about the effects.
    >
    > Do you think the claim I originally questioned is based on any published research at all? I
    > suspect it wasn't.
    >
    > I'd be happy to look at any actual research that might be available. You haven't mentioned
    > any, though.
    >
    >
    >
    You have not looked at anything with a search engine? China Qi Gong Research Hospitals
     
  6. Two_bears

    Two_bears Guest

    "Tom" <[email protected]> wrote

    > Do you think the claim I originally questioned is based on any published research at all? I
    > suspect it wasn't.
    >
    > I'd be happy to look at any actual research that might be available. You haven't mentioned
    > any, though.

    Now I know where I have seen his E-Mail address before. He used to post, and may still post in
    alt.magick.

    When I encountered him he was a debunker "Don't confuse me with the facts; my mind is
    already made up."

    I fear you are wasting your time on Tom.

    Aloha nui loa; Two Bears.

    Received the title 'master' 8 times; and STILL working on self mastery. Click the link to read my
    HUNA intro. http://www.geocities.com/huna101
     
  7. Brett

    Brett Guest

    On Wed, 25 Jun 2003 21:08:19 GMT, "tools" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >
    >"Tom" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >> > > One wonders if such effects are a product of belief rather than the physical effects of the
    >> > > exercises themselves.
    >> > >
    >> > Well you could find a Qi Gong master, and ask him/her to prove it to
    >you.
    >> > But being a good little troll, you won't do that.
    >>
    >> Kind of hostile response to a thoughtful message.
    >>
    >> Well, I guess that tells me all I need to know about you.
    >>
    >>
    >Well, GOOD, now crawl back under your rock.
    >

    Actually, I had the same basic question, just hadn't asked.

    Are the effects the product of belief, or of the physical exercises?

    What's the problem with asking? What's the problem with answering?
     
  8. Tom

    Tom Guest

    "Two_Bears" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > "Tom" <[email protected]> wrote
    >
    > > I think you are using pseudo-physics to talk about feelings. When we
    try
    > > to talk about this stuff using the terminology of physics, we get
    bogged
    >
    > No I'm not, Every one's energy pathways are different.
    >
    > Some weight lifters can lift 400 pounds easier than other people can lift
    50
    > pounds.
    >
    > Running too much Qi through some people can have harmful results. The
    only
    > one qualified to state when it is too much is the person, and they do
    that
    > by paying attention to the subtle signals from their body.

    > You asked for symptoms of an out of sorts endocrine system,

    Nope. Look again at what I actually wrote, instead of relying on your imagination-laced memory.

    That's the problem with you pseudo-scientists, you're careless.

    > Qi at present can't be measured easily without using kirlian photograpgy
    and
    > can sometimes be subjective.

    Kirlian photography? You've fallen for that old rot? Now you're confusing a simple gas corona
    discharge with qi.

    > I see that you chose to ignore the point about the poor guy that will
    have
    > to take life sustaining medication for the rest of his life,

    I don't consider unverifiable personal anecdotes to be very good evidence.

    In another message in this thread, you wrote, "I fear you are wasting your time on Tom."

    You're right. You are wasting your time on me if that sort of blather is all you've got.
     
  9. Tools

    Tools Guest

    "Tom" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "Two_Bears" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > Tom:
    > >
    > > Back in the late 60s and 70s; eastern studies and philosophy began to
    > take a
    > > hold here in the west; and the people here in the west had bought into
    > the
    > > philosophy "no pain no gain", so they began using the same aproach when
    > they
    > > began studyinh Yoga, Qigong, Tai Chi, etc.
    > >
    > > I have heard that several of those completely came unglued, and some
    > > psychologists or psychiatrists coined the term Qigong Psychosis for
    their
    > > problem.
    >
    > According to Dr. H H Shan MD, Director, Department of Social and Cross Culture Psychiatry,
    > Shanghai XuHui Mental Health Center, Shanghai, China, qigong psychosis is a culture-bound syndrome
    > that affects believers in qigong. Sometimes it occurs in people who have properly performed qigong
    > exercises, not just inappropriate practices. The concepts of qigong are not fully defined and
    > there are more than 400 different methods of doing qigong exercises. Which ones are the "proper"
    > ones? How do you know?
    >
    > One wonders if such effects are a product of belief rather than the physical effects of the
    > exercises themselves.
    >
    >
    >
    Well you could find a Qi Gong master, and ask him/her to prove it to you. But being a good little
    troll, you won't do that.
     
  10. Tom

    Tom Guest

    "Two_Bears" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    >
    > When I encountered him he was a debunker "Don't confuse me with the facts; my mind is already
    > made up."

    I've never been a "debunker" and I have never written what you put into quotes.

    However, people whose beliefs are easily threatened and who haven't got enough evidence to back up
    their silly claims have often made up quotes to attribute to me in an effort to erect a straw man.

    > I fear you are wasting your time on Tom.

    If what you're trying to do is bluff with a busted flush, you are indeed wasting your time on me.
     
  11. Tom

    Tom Guest

    "tools" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "Tom" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > >
    > > "Two_Bears" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > Tom:
    > > >
    > > > Back in the late 60s and 70s; eastern studies and philosophy began to
    > > take a
    > > > hold here in the west; and the people here in the west had bought
    into
    > > the
    > > > philosophy "no pain no gain", so they began using the same aproach
    when
    > > they
    > > > began studyinh Yoga, Qigong, Tai Chi, etc.
    > > >
    > > > I have heard that several of those completely came unglued, and some
    > > > psychologists or psychiatrists coined the term Qigong Psychosis for
    > their
    > > > problem.
    > >
    > > According to Dr. H H Shan MD, Director, Department of Social and Cross Culture Psychiatry,
    > > Shanghai XuHui Mental Health Center, Shanghai,
    China,
    > > qigong psychosis is a culture-bound syndrome that affects believers in qigong. Sometimes it
    > > occurs in people who have properly performed
    qigong
    > > exercises, not just inappropriate practices. The concepts of qigong
    are
    > > not fully defined and there are more than 400 different methods of
    doing
    > > qigong exercises. Which ones are the "proper" ones? How do you know?
    > >
    > > One wonders if such effects are a product of belief rather than the physical effects of the
    > > exercises themselves.
    > >
    > Well you could find a Qi Gong master, and ask him/her to prove it to you. But being a good little
    > troll, you won't do that.

    Kind of hostile response to a thoughtful message.

    Well, I guess that tells me all I need to know about you.
     
  12. Tools

    Tools Guest

    "Tom" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "Two_Bears" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > >
    > > When I encountered him he was a debunker "Don't confuse me with the facts; my mind is already
    > > made up."
    >
    > I've never been a "debunker" and I have never written what you put into quotes.
    >
    > However, people whose beliefs are easily threatened and who haven't got enough evidence to back up
    > their silly claims have often made up quotes to attribute to me in an effort to erect a straw man.
    >
    > > I fear you are wasting your time on Tom.
    >
    > If what you're trying to do is bluff with a busted flush, you are indeed wasting your time on me.
    >
    >
    Damn! Tom, were you dropped on your head?
     
  13. Tools

    Tools Guest

    "Tom" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "tools" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > >
    > > "Tom" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]...
    > > >
    > > > "Two_Bears" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > > Tom:
    > > > >
    > > > > Back in the late 60s and 70s; eastern studies and philosophy began
    to
    > > > take a
    > > > > hold here in the west; and the people here in the west had bought
    > into
    > > > the
    > > > > philosophy "no pain no gain", so they began using the same aproach
    > when
    > > > they
    > > > > began studyinh Yoga, Qigong, Tai Chi, etc.
    > > > >
    > > > > I have heard that several of those completely came unglued, and some
    > > > > psychologists or psychiatrists coined the term Qigong Psychosis for
    > > their
    > > > > problem.
    > > >
    > > > According to Dr. H H Shan MD, Director, Department of Social and Cross Culture Psychiatry,
    > > > Shanghai XuHui Mental Health Center, Shanghai,
    > China,
    > > > qigong psychosis is a culture-bound syndrome that affects believers in qigong. Sometimes it
    > > > occurs in people who have properly performed
    > qigong
    > > > exercises, not just inappropriate practices. The concepts of qigong
    > are
    > > > not fully defined and there are more than 400 different methods of
    > doing
    > > > qigong exercises. Which ones are the "proper" ones? How do you know?
    > > >
    > > > One wonders if such effects are a product of belief rather than the physical effects of the
    > > > exercises themselves.
    > > >
    > > Well you could find a Qi Gong master, and ask him/her to prove it to
    you.
    > > But being a good little troll, you won't do that.
    >
    > Kind of hostile response to a thoughtful message.
    >
    > Well, I guess that tells me all I need to know about you.
    >
    >
    >
    Well, GOOD, now crawl back under your rock.
     
  14. David Wright

    David Wright Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, Tom
    <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >"Two_Bears" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >news:[email protected]...
    >> Tom:
    >>
    >> Back in the late 60s and 70s; eastern studies and philosophy began to take a hold here in the
    >> west; and the people here in the west had bought into the philosophy "no pain no gain", so they
    >> began using the same aproach when they began studyinh Yoga, Qigong, Tai Chi, etc.
    >>
    >> I have heard that several of those completely came unglued, and some
    >> psychologists or psychiatrists coined the term Qigong Psychosis for their problem.
    >
    >According to Dr. H H Shan MD, Director, Department of Social and Cross Culture Psychiatry, Shanghai
    >XuHui Mental Health Center, Shanghai, China, qigong psychosis is a culture-bound syndrome that
    >affects believers in qigong. Sometimes it occurs in people who have properly performed qigong
    >exercises, not just inappropriate practices. The concepts of qigong are not fully defined and there
    >are more than 400 different methods of doing qigong exercises. Which ones are the "proper" ones?
    >How do you know?
    >
    >One wonders if such effects are a product of belief rather than the physical effects of the
    >exercises themselves.

    According to my own teacher, the confusion here is because qigong can refer both to the physical
    exercises, and to meditation -- and it's the latter that, when overdone, can lead to psychosis.

    -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net These are my opinions only, but they're almost always
    correct. "If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants were standing on my
    shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)
     
  15. Tom

    Tom Guest

    "David Wright" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > In article <[email protected]>, Tom
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >
    > >
    > >According to Dr. H H Shan MD, Director, Department of Social and Cross Culture Psychiatry,
    > >Shanghai XuHui Mental Health Center, Shanghai,
    China,
    > >qigong psychosis is a culture-bound syndrome that affects believers in qigong. Sometimes it
    > >occurs in people who have properly performed
    qigong
    > >exercises, not just inappropriate practices. The concepts of qigong are not fully defined and
    > >there are more than 400 different methods of doing qigong exercises. Which ones are the "proper"
    > >ones? How do you know?
    > >
    > >One wonders if such effects are a product of belief rather than the physical effects of the
    > >exercises themselves.
    >
    > According to my own teacher, the confusion here is because qigong can refer both to the physical
    > exercises, and to meditation -- and it's the latter that, when overdone, can lead to psychosis.

    That contradicts some of the case histories I've found.

    http://www.hrw.org/reports/2002/china02/china0802-17.htm

    Case 1: Mr. A is a 22-year-old unmarried worker. He began to learn himself from Qigong books the "Wu
    Qin Xi" (exercise mimicking the gestures of five animals) on November 26, 1984 for the treatment of
    lumbago. Ten days later, he suddenly had "special cenesthesiopathy" with "Qi" flowing adversely in
    the head and abdomen. When "Qi" flowed into his head, he felt fullness of head and chest distress.
    When showing a Qigong gesture, he suffered agony and anxiety, even attempting to commit suicide. Two
    hours later he was sent to Shanghai Institute of Qigong for help. Guided by a Qigong master he
    recovered. The next day he became delirious and claimed that he could hear the voice of evil
    spirits; he prayed to Buddha for help but only lost his self control. During the intervals of the
    attacks, the patient was normal. But he could not work normally due to insomnia and difficulty in
    coping with Qigong deviation.

    Case 2: Mr. B is a 44-year-old married painter. He learned on his own the "He Xiang Zhuang"
    (crane-flying Qigong), another school of Qigong in February 1984, attempting to treat his ailment,
    the hypertrophy of cervical vertebra. He had no personal psychiatric history, neither his family.
    Several days after Qigong exercise, he was suddenly agitated with hyperthymia. He claimed that he
    knew everything in the world, "water is associated with the sea," when he talked about the sea, he
    would "think of the American continent." Three days later, he was diagnosed as schizophrenia-like
    disorder and was treated in Shanghai Psychiatric Hospital. One month later he had remission. Later
    he turned to learn the "Long Men Five Flow," another school of Qigong. On the third morning he
    suddenly began to cry and dance, still doing Qigong exercise in bed. He thought that his dead mother
    would be brought back to life whereas he would become a ghost. He said that he could see Buddha and
    God, and he believed in religion. He also smelt something unusual. He was again admitted to Shanghai
    Psychiatric Hospital.

    Now, I'm not familiar with these particular exercises, so I may well be mistaken, but they seem to
    be physical exercises rather than strictly meditation.
     
  16. Two_bears

    Two_bears Guest

    "Tom" <[email protected]> wrote

    > recovered. The next day he became delirious and claimed that he could hear the voice of evil
    > spirits; he prayed to Buddha for help but only lost his self control. During the intervals of the
    > attacks, the patient was normal.

    Does my earlier message that in extreme condition the person with a mucked up endocrine system would
    be unable to discern the difference between physical and non physical reality sound familiar?

    What this report did not state was how much the person practised the exercizes, and the signals he
    received from his body, and if he ignored them.

    > Now, I'm not familiar with these particular exercises, so I may well be mistaken, but they seem to
    > be physical exercises rather than strictly meditation.

    Meditation is not the only way to overload the energy pathways.

    I had my first Qi overload by standing in a complex Zhan Zhuang posture. My sifu had given me the
    symptoms of a Qi overload; so I stopped the practise and ate a sandwich and went outside.

    Aloha nui loa; Two Bears.

    Received the title 'master' 8 times; and STILL working on self mastery. Click the link to read my
    HUNA intro. http://www.geocities.com/huna101
     
  17. Tools

    Tools Guest

    "Brett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > On Wed, 25 Jun 2003 21:08:19 GMT, "tools" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > >
    > >"Tom" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > >> > > One wonders if such effects are a product of belief rather than the physical effects of the
    > >> > > exercises themselves.
    > >> > >
    > >> > Well you could find a Qi Gong master, and ask him/her to prove it to
    > >you.
    > >> > But being a good little troll, you won't do that.
    > >>
    > >> Kind of hostile response to a thoughtful message.
    > >>
    > >> Well, I guess that tells me all I need to know about you.
    > >>
    > >>
    > >Well, GOOD, now crawl back under your rock.
    > >
    >
    > Actually, I had the same basic question, just hadn't asked.
    >
    > Are the effects the product of belief, or of the physical exercises?
    >
    > What's the problem with asking? What's the problem with answering?
    >
    The problem with asking is with the attitude of the person asking. No problem with answering, it
    just seems if one wants to know about Qi Gong, one should seek someone well versed . A Qi Gong
    master can answer such questions far better than I.
     
  18. Two_bears

    Two_bears Guest

    "Tom" <[email protected]> wrote

    > According to Dr. H H Shan MD, Director, Department of Social and Cross Culture Psychiatry,
    > Shanghai XuHui Mental Health Center, Shanghai, China, qigong psychosis is a culture-bound syndrome
    > that affects believers in

    So the diagnosis Qigong psychosis was not an urban legend then. Thank you for the confirmation.

    > qigong. Sometimes it occurs in people who have properly performed qigong exercises, not just
    > inappropriate practices. The concepts of qigong are

    Thanks for the additional information.

    > not fully defined and there are more than 400 different methods of doing qigong exercises. Which
    > ones are the "proper" ones? How do you know?

    Then this proves that you do not understand Qigong.

    Qi = Energy Gong = Work.

    Any Chinese form of energy work falls under the Qigong umbrella. There are thousands of variants of
    Qigong. Some have physical movements like Ba Duan Jin, Wah Nam, etc. Others have physical exercize;
    but the practitioner stands relaxed and perfectly still like Zhan Zhuand, and others develop Qi
    through the use of the mind such as Nei Gong, or Nei Dan, then there are egorms that combine two of
    the three.

    Aloha nui loa; Two Bears.

    Received the title 'master' 8 times; and STILL working on self mastery. Click the link to read my
    HUNA intro. http://www.geocities.com/huna101
     
  19. Two_bears

    Two_bears Guest

    "Tom" <[email protected]> wrote

    > Kirlian photography? You've fallen for that old rot? Now you're
    confusing
    > a simple gas corona discharge with qi.

    Then why do the hands of Qigong masters , Reiki masters, and other energy workers have a lighted
    area 5-10 times as wide as normal people?

    > You're right. You are wasting your time on me if that sort of blather is all you've got.

    ;-) your word usage "sort of blather" speaks volumes.

    Aloha nui loa; Two Bears.

    Received the title 'master' 8 times; and STILL working on self mastery. Click the link to read my
    HUNA intro. http://www.geocities.com/huna101
     
  20. On Thu, 26 Jun 2003 02:19:42 GMT, "Tom" <[email protected]> wrote:

    <snip>

    >Now, I'm not familiar with these particular exercises, so I may well be mistaken, but they seem to
    >be physical exercises rather than strictly meditation.

    Tom this is where a lack of experience and/or research causes misunderstanding and unnecessary
    argument. Especially since the name of one of the newsgroups this thread has been crossposted to,
    alt.meditation.qigong, should have been a big hint. :) Qigong exercises are not performed the same
    way you would perform a routine in your aerobics class at the gym. The movements (when there are
    movements--there are many different kinds of qigong) are done slowly, usually, but not always, with
    relaxed muscles, with deep, slow, rhythmic, diaphramatic breathing and a relaxed state of mind. The
    deep, slow breathing, also characteristic of various meditation and yoga practices, is what gives
    qigong its name, "qi" meaning breath and "gong" meaning work. The moving varieties of qigong can be
    characterized as a moving meditation.

    The case histories you presented sound pretty bizarre. From the way they are written, I suspect that
    the individuals involved already had some sort of major problem and that the qigong was just a
    convenient scapegoat. Or maybe someone wanted to "prove" that qigong is a dangerous thing without an
    experienced teacher to follow. (Maybe even a "real master" wanted to do this to help his business
    situation) Or perhaps this is simply a case of "you can find anything you like to support any
    position you like on the internet". But this is merely my hastily formed reaction based on what
    little was present in your post, not on real research and experience of such situations, so YMMV. At
    any rate, I'm not sure what you were trying to prove or demonstrate or give an example of with these
    two particular case histories?

    I hope this has been of some help. Any further replies from me concerning qigong will be limited to
    alt.meditation.qigong. I fail to see why this is crossposted to the other 4 groups.

    Garry
     
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