throat chakra hot spot

Discussion in 'Health and medical' started by David Dalton, Nov 1, 2003.

  1. Two_bears

    Two_bears Guest

    "Tom" <[email protected]> wrote

    > I've never been a "debunker" and I have never written what you put into quotes.

    A skeptic is one that disbelieves; but is willing to listen. You are not, so that makes you
    a debunker.

    I never accused you of saying that. I said you used that attitude.

    Qi is experiential. you have to test it and prove it to yourself.

    I have proved well beyond MY satisfaction that Qi is real.

    Completely healed a mangled foot and was walking 28 days after the doctor suggested amputation above
    the ankle. The foot had a partialy torn achilles tendon, and two broken bones. The foot was four
    colors of the rainbow, and swollen three times it's normal size.

    directing energy into Tammy F's injured hand for a few minutes and she was able to regain the used
    of her hand. Tammy F was exactly like you. a complete disbeliever in energy work, and her expression
    after she moved her hand for the first time in two days was "Damn! This is cool!"

    directing energy into cheekbones and ears of Kelly C. and sheturned beet red from the top of her
    head to her waist in minutes. She was complaining of a sinus infection and ear ache, and her health
    problems were GONE.

    I would suggest that you actually experience it for yourself. sign up for a class and do the
    exercizes and experience the feeling of increased energy flowing in your body.

    > However, people whose beliefs are easily threatened and who haven't got enough evidence to back up
    > their silly claims have often made up quotes to attribute to me in an effort to erect a straw man.

    It is NOT belief. When I was 19 and my sifu started talking about Qi; my western trained mind could
    not accept it either. As a matter of fact I thought he was the biggest crackpot ever to walk the
    earth! I saw him do things that some people would classify as supernatural.

    > If what you're trying to do is bluff with a busted flush, you are indeed

    I am not bluffing. just trying to get you to open your mind and heart.

    Physic professors state that 90% of the matter in the universe is dark matter that can not be found
    and measured.

    Aloha nui loa; Two Bears.

    Received the title 'master' 8 times; and STILL working on self mastery. Click the link to read my
    HUNA intro. http://www.geocities.com/huna101
     


  2. Dorie

    Dorie Guest

    There's a very good little book called Between Heaven and Earth which talks about the five elements
    and Chinese medicine. If you read the chapter on fire, you will see descriptions of excess heat,
    which includes sensations of heat in the body. By the way, people who have this are also drawn to
    metaphysical exploration, as you have described in your earlier posting. You should read this book.
    No place in your body should be heating up. This is a sign of an energy imbalance, not of your dear
    friend thinking of you. :)

    Isadora
     
  3. On 26 Jun 2003 10:45:02 -0700, [email protected] (Dorie) wrote:

    >There's a very good little book called Between Heaven and Earth which talks about the five elements
    >and Chinese medicine. If you read the chapter on fire, you will see descriptions of excess heat,
    >which includes sensations of heat in the body. By the way, people who have this are also drawn to
    >metaphysical exploration, as you have described in your earlier posting. You should read this book.
    >No place in your body should be heating up. This is a sign of an energy imbalance, not of your dear
    >friend thinking of you. :)

    Depends on what you mean by "heating up". A feeling of warmth during qigong practice in the dantien
    is actually a good sign. When a TCM doctor speaks of "excess heat", he or she is talking about
    something entirely different. Also, for those of us that practice Reiki, and I imagine for those
    that practice external qigong healing, as well, it is not uncommon for the hands to warm up
    considerably during a session, and this is quite natural and not an indication of an imbalance in
    the practitioner.

    Garry
     
  4. Two_bears

    Two_bears Guest

    "Nadie Niemand" <[email protected]> wrote

    > Depends on what you mean by "heating up". A feeling of warmth during qigong practice in the
    > dantien is actually a good sign. When a TCM doctor speaks of "excess heat", he or she is talking
    > about something entirely different. Also, for those of us that practice Reiki, and I imagine for
    > those that practice external qigong healing, as well, it is not uncommon for the hands to warm up
    > considerably during a session, and this is quite natural and not an indication of an imbalance in
    > the practitioner.

    I could not agree more.

    There is a vast difference between a warmth from a Reikim Qigong, or HUNA healing session; and a
    burning sensation caused by a blocked meridian.

    Aloha nui loa; Two Bears.

    Received the title 'master' 8 times; and STILL working on self mastery. Click the link to read my
    HUNA intro. http://www.geocities.com/huna101
     
  5. Earl John

    Earl John Guest

    Many cooks make a whole lotta mess?

    "Two_Bears" <[email protected]> skrev i melding news:[email protected]...
    > "Joseph Forman" <[email protected]> wrote
    >
    > > Slight correction. The Ren is the conception vessel. The Du is the governing vessel.
    >
    > Thanks for the tip.
    >
    > I may have confused the Ren and Du; but I still knew Conceptoion Qi vessel went from the tip of
    > the tongue then sown the front of the abdomen to the hui Yin, and Governing goes from the Hui Yin
    > uo the spine and op the back
    of
    > the skull across the Bai Hui vital point and down the front of the face
    and
    > ends at the gum tissue above the two front teeth.
    >
    > Aloha nui loa; Two Bears.
    >
    > Received the title 'master' 8 times; and STILL working on self mastery. Click the link to read
    > my HUNA intro. http://www.geocities.com/huna101
     
  6. Tom

    Tom Guest

    "Two_Bears" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > "Tom" <[email protected]> wrote
    >
    > > recovered. The next day he became delirious and claimed that he could
    hear
    > > the voice of evil spirits; he prayed to Buddha for help but only lost
    his
    > > self control. During the intervals of the attacks, the patient was
    normal.
    >
    > Does my earlier message that in extreme condition the person with a
    mucked
    > up endocrine system would be unable to discern the difference between physical and non physical
    > reality sound familiar?

    There is nothing in this case history that identifies the problem as a "mucked up endocrine system".

    > What this report did not state was how much the person practised the exercizes, and the signals he
    > received from his body, and if he ignored them.

    Feel free to contact the author of the article if you want more details on this case.

    http://www.hrw.org/reports/2002/china02/china0802-17.htm

    > Meditation is not the only way to overload the energy pathways.

    OK, but you seem to be in disagreement with David Wright's qigong teacher.

    > I had my first Qi overload by standing in a complex Zhan Zhuang posture.
    My
    > sifu had given me the symptoms of a Qi overload; so I stopped the
    practise
    > and ate a sandwich and went outside.

    According to Dr Shan's article, the majority of cases of qigong psychosis were among those who were
    practicing from a book instead of from a teacher. Of 129 cases he studied, 100 of them were
    self-taught, 23 had an individual teacher and 6 were in groups. So it might be that having someone
    you trust and respect to talk to about what you're feeling may help.

    He also notes that most cases were of short duration, like yours, but that simply stopping the
    practice did not abate the symptoms.

    Further, he notes that the people most likely to suffer severe reactions have pre-existing
    psychological problems.

    Dr. Shan concludes, " Hopefully, such culture-bound psychiatric disorders associated with Qigong
    practice can be prevented if adequate psychological education can be provided to all Qigong
    practitioners before and after starting such exercises."
     
  7. Tom

    Tom Guest

    "Nadie Niemand" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > On Thu, 26 Jun 2003 02:19:42 GMT, "Tom" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > >Now, I'm not familiar with these particular exercises, so I may well be mistaken, but they seem
    > >to be physical exercises rather than strictly meditation.
    >
    > Tom this is where a lack of experience and/or research causes misunderstanding and unnecessary
    > argument. Especially since the name of one of the newsgroups this thread has been crossposted to,
    > alt.meditation.qigong, should have been a big hint. :) Qigong exercises are not performed the
    > same way you would perform a routine in your aerobics class at the gym. The movements (when there
    > are movements--there are many different kinds of qigong) are done slowly, usually, but not always,
    > with relaxed muscles, with deep, slow, rhythmic, diaphramatic breathing and a relaxed state of
    > mind. The deep, slow breathing, also characteristic of various meditation and yoga practices, is
    > what gives qigong its name, "qi" meaning breath and "gong" meaning work. The moving varieties of
    > qigong can be characterized as a moving meditation.
    >
    > The case histories you presented sound pretty bizarre. From the way they are written, I suspect
    > that the individuals involved already had some sort of major problem and that the qigong was just
    > a convenient scapegoat. Or maybe someone wanted to "prove" that qigong is a dangerous thing
    > without an experienced teacher to follow. (Maybe even a "real master" wanted to do this to help
    > his business situation) Or perhaps this is simply a case of "you can find anything you like to
    > support any position you like on the internet". But this is merely my hastily formed reaction
    > based on what little was present in your post, not on real research and experience of such
    > situations, so YMMV. At any rate, I'm not sure what you were trying to prove or demonstrate or
    > give an example of with these two particular case histories?

    I've cited a couple of articles on qigong psychosis, both from people who are doing serious
    research on the subject in China. These are not just anecdotes, but samples from fairly extensive
    research work.

    You can read them for yourself and form your own conclusions.

    http://kundalini-info.org/qigong2.html

    http://www.hrw.org/reports/2002/china02/china0802-17.htm

    As for whether qigong is "dangerous", I suspect it is not. It's my impression that qigong
    "overloads" are a product of suggestibility, not some dangerous flow of energy.

    I merely joined this thread in order to question a claim about damage being done to the endocrine
    system due to the overuse of qigong exercises.

    > I hope this has been of some help. Any further replies from me concerning qigong will be limited
    > to alt.meditation.qigong. I fail to see why this is crossposted to the other 4 groups.

    Crossposting often adds new points of view, as well as a certain amount of muddle. I didn't select
    the groups, though. I'm merely responding.
     
  8. Two_bears

    Two_bears Guest

    "Tom" <[email protected]> wrote

    > Feel free to contact the author of the article if you want more details on this case.

    Why would I want to contact the author. I would need to discuss the matter with the person that had
    the incident.

    > OK, but you seem to be in disagreement with David Wright's qigong teacher.

    So what? He had one perspective; I have another.

    My overload was by practising a complicated Zhan Zhuang pose. The person that is on life sustaining
    meditation; he practised over an hour a day in intense meditation trying to open his third eye and
    attain clairvoyance and other paranormal abilities. The other three people created their overloads
    by overdoing physical exercizes. They were not patient to allow their body to change gradually.

    > According to Dr Shan's article, the majority of cases of qigong psychosis were among those who
    > were practicing from a book instead of from a
    teacher.

    I have no problems with that statement several Qigong books contain both beginning and advanced
    material (trying to appeal to beginners and more advanced practitioners) Now you understand why I
    have two lists of recommended Qigong books.

    One list with books such as "The Way Of Energy", "Chi Kung: For Health And Vitality", "8 simple
    Qigong exercizes", etc for beginners, and "Ch'i: The Power Within", "The Art Of Qigong", The Root Of
    Chinese Qigong", etc for more advanced practitioners.

    There are some exercizes that are absolutely unsafe until the person has learned the basics, and
    know how Qi is supposed to feel when dome correctly.

    > Of 129 cases he studied, 100 of them were self-taught, 23 had an
    individual
    > teacher and 6 were in groups. So it might be that having someone you
    trust
    > and respect to talk to about what you're feeling may help.

    A teacher is a lot of help by spotting the problems early, and can help the person get themself out
    of trouble.

    If a person gets a good beginner book ("The Way Of Energy", and "Chi Kung: For Health And Vitality")
    are two good beginner books, and follows the directions; they are great; but then another person can
    go to a Qigong master, and not follow the instructions when they practise at home and get themself
    into trouble.

    > He also notes that most cases were of short duration, like yours, but that simply stopping the
    > practice did not abate the symptoms.

    What I experienced was a one time overload of Qi; not Qigong psychosis.

    Stopping the practise alone is not enough.

    Stopping the practise and going for a walk, or stopping the practise and eating something to start
    the digestive juices flowing will aid in stopping the symptoms.

    > Further, he notes that the people most likely to suffer severe reactions have pre-existing
    > psychological problems.

    This I have no first hand information to confront it.

    Aloha nui loa; Two Bears.

    Received the title 'master' 8 times; and STILL working on self mastery. Click the link to read my
    HUNA intro. http://www.geocities.com/huna101
     
  9. Two_bears

    Two_bears Guest

    "Tom" <[email protected]> wrote

    > As for whether qigong is "dangerous", I suspect it is not. It's my impression that qigong
    > "overloads" are a product of suggestibility, not some dangerous flow of energy.

    Everyone is entitled to their opinion even when they are wrong.

    Aloha nui loa; Two Bears.

    Received the title 'master' 8 times; and STILL working on self mastery. Click the link to read my
    HUNA intro. http://www.geocities.com/huna101
     
  10. Tom

    Tom Guest

    "Two_Bears" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > "Tom" <[email protected]> wrote
    >
    >
    > > not fully defined and there are more than 400 different methods of
    doing
    > > qigong exercises. Which ones are the "proper" ones? How do you know?
    >
    > Then this proves that you do not understand Qigong.
    >
    > Qi = Energy Gong = Work.
    >
    > Any Chinese form of energy work falls under the Qigong umbrella. There
    are
    > thousands of variants of Qigong. Some have physical movements like Ba
    Duan
    > Jin, Wah Nam, etc. Others have physical exercize; but the practitioner stands relaxed and
    > perfectly still like Zhan Zhuand, and others develop
    Qi
    > through the use of the mind such as Nei Gong, or Nei Dan, then there are egorms that combine two
    > of the three.

    But qigong psychosis is alleged to come from inappropriate qigong practices. Are you saying there is
    no such thing as an inappropriate or improper qigong practice?
     
  11. Tom

    Tom Guest

    "Two_Bears" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > "Tom" <[email protected]> wrote
    >
    > > Kirlian photography? You've fallen for that old rot? Now you're
    > confusing
    > > a simple gas corona discharge with qi.
    >
    > Then why do the hands of Qigong masters , Reiki masters, and other energy workers have a lighted
    > area 5-10 times as wide as normal people?

    Before concluding that this is indeed the case, you should be aware that the variables that govern
    the size and shape of a kirlian photo image include the voltage and current discharge, current
    density through the sample, discharge frequency, pulse shape, overall resistance in the plate,
    sample, and emulsion surrounding it, the electrical field configuration, point-plane, high-voltage
    plane, grounding shape plane, and the pressure of the sample on the plate. Any or all of these can
    and often do vary widely from one photograph to another, even with the same equipment. In addition,
    results can vary due to atmospheric humidity, the moisture content of the sample, and different
    chemicals which happen to be on the sample which could affect conductivity.

    If you have some specific studies in which your claim about the increased size of the kirlian photo
    images of qigong masters or other energy workers, we might be able to check to see if these
    variables were properly controlled.
     
  12. Two_bears

    Two_bears Guest

    "Tom" <[email protected]> wrote

    > If you have some specific studies in which your claim about the increased size of the kirlian
    > photo images of qigong masters or other energy
    workers,
    > we might be able to check to see if these variables were properly controlled.

    If memory serves; on page 20 (if memory serves) of "Empowerment Through Reiki"; it shows kirlian
    photos of the authors hands normaly, and when she was directing energy. I'm sure the front of the
    book tells to contact the author, and Ms. Horan; may be able to fill you in on those details.

    Aloha nui loa; Two Bears.

    Received the title 'master' 8 times; and STILL working on self mastery. Click the link to read my
    HUNA intro. http://www.geocities.com/huna101
     
  13. Two_bears

    Two_bears Guest

    "Tom" <[email protected]> wrote

    > But qigong psychosis is alleged to come from inappropriate qigong practices. Are you saying there
    > is no such thing as an inappropriate or improper qigong practice?

    I am saying there are thousands of different variants of Qigong.

    The only improper Qigong practise I am aware of is to practise and disregard the subtle signals
    coming from our body.
     
  14. Tom

    Tom Guest

    "Two_Bears" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > "Tom" <[email protected]> wrote
    >
    > > I've never been a "debunker" and I have never written what you put into quotes.
    >
    > A skeptic is one that disbelieves; but is willing to listen. You are not,
    so
    > that makes you a debunker.

    Well, I see no point in arguing with a mind that is already made up.
     
  15. --

    "Two_Bears" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    >
    > Physic [sic] professors state that 90% of the matter in the universe is
    dark
    > matter that can not be found and measured.
    >

    And the point is that dark matter cannot be found and measured because the only influence it exerts
    on the visible portion of the universe is gravitational. Gravity is the weakest form of energy, and
    since it's attraction falls off as the square of the distance, the effect of all the dark matter on
    the whole universe on your endocrine glands is less than the effect exerted by the gravity of the
    coffee cup on your desk.

    You can't invoke dark matter as qi or any other "energy" affecting the human body. The human body,
    including your endocrine glands, follows the same rules of physics as the rest of the universe and
    is not likely to be capable of detecting and responding to influences that are not detectable with
    scientific instruments. If you believe there is an energy form that is thus far unknown to science,
    then the burden of proof is on you to prove it and describe how it interacts with the known
    universe. Then sit back and wait for your Nobel.

    --Rich
     
  16. Two_bears

    Two_bears Guest

    "Tom" <[email protected]> wrote

    > Well, I see no point in arguing with a mind that is already made up.

    Tom: there is only one subject that mu mind is made up on "For creation to exist; there MUST be
    a Creator.

    If I have misjudged; you; then show me where I am wrong? I'm not unreasonable. All I know about you
    is you is the messages I have read, and your messages invoke the feeling that you are unwilling to
    listen and learn.

    Aloha nui loa; Two Bears.

    Received the title 'master' 8 times; and STILL working on self mastery. Click the link to read my
    HUNA intro. http://www.geocities.com/huna101
     
  17. Two_bears

    Two_bears Guest

    "Rich Shewmaker" <[email protected]> wrote

    > And the point is that dark matter cannot be found and measured because the only influence it
    > exerts on the visible portion of the universe is gravitational. Gravity is the weakest form of
    > energy, and since it's attraction falls off as the square of the distance, the effect of all the
    > dark matter on the whole universe on your endocrine glands is less than
    the
    > effect exerted by the gravity of the coffee cup on your desk.
    >
    > You can't invoke dark matter as qi or any other "energy" affecting the
    human
    > body. The human body, including your endocrine glands, follows the same rules of physics as the
    > rest of the universe and is not likely to be
    capable
    > of detecting and responding to influences that are not detectable with scientific instruments. If
    > you believe there is an energy form that is
    thus
    > far unknown to science, then the burden of proof is on you to prove it and describe how it
    > interacts with the known universe. Then sit back and wait for your Nobel.

    Rich: I that you need to work on your reading comprehension.

    No where did I say that Qi and dark matter were in any way related.

    I KNOW Qi is real from first hand experience.

    Physicists postulate the idea of dark matter.

    Neither can be detected or measured by science.

    Aloha nui loa; Two Bears.

    Received the title 'master' 8 times; and STILL working on self mastery. Click the link to read my
    HUNA intro. http://www.geocities.com/huna101
     
  18. --

    "Two_Bears" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > "Rich Shewmaker" <[email protected]> wrote
    >
    > > And the point is that dark matter cannot be found and measured because
    the
    > > only influence it exerts on the visible portion of the universe is gravitational. Gravity is the
    > > weakest form of energy, and since it's attraction falls off as the square of the distance, the
    > > effect of all
    the
    > > dark matter on the whole universe on your endocrine glands is less than
    > the
    > > effect exerted by the gravity of the coffee cup on your desk.
    > >
    > > You can't invoke dark matter as qi or any other "energy" affecting the
    > human
    > > body. The human body, including your endocrine glands, follows the same rules of physics as the
    > > rest of the universe and is not likely to be
    > capable
    > > of detecting and responding to influences that are not detectable with scientific instruments.
    > > If you believe there is an energy form that is
    > thus
    > > far unknown to science, then the burden of proof is on you to prove it
    and
    > > describe how it interacts with the known universe. Then sit back and
    wait
    > > for your Nobel.
    >
    > Rich: I that you need to work on your reading comprehension.
    >
    > No where did I say that Qi and dark matter were in any way related.
    >
    > I KNOW Qi is real from first hand experience.
    >
    > Physicists postulate the idea of dark matter.
    >
    > Neither can be detected or measured by science.
    >

    I beg to differ. Dark matter has been detected by the gravitational influence it has on the matter
    we do see. It is measured the same way. Qi cannot be detected or measured, and your "first hand
    experience" will be insufficient evidence to earn you that Nobel.

    --Rich
     
  19. On Fri, 27 Jun 2003 23:59:03 -1000, "Rich Shewmaker" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Qi cannot be detected or measured, and your "first hand experience" will be insufficient evidence
    > to earn you that Nobel.

    So, you have designed and carried out experiments, or read reports of experiments designed and
    carried out by others (perhaps something similar to the Michelson-Morley experiment that disproved
    the idea of an ether for explaining the behavior of light), that demonstrate that qi cannot be
    detected or measured? Interesting! Could we have the publication information or a URL please?

    If you have not, then please refrain from making unscientific proclamations in the name of science.
    You are held to the same standards as others if you wish to do science.

    Garry
     
  20. Two_bears

    Two_bears Guest

    "Rich Shewmaker" <[email protected]> wrote

    > I beg to differ. Dark matter has been detected by the gravitational influence it has on the matter
    > we do see. It is measured the same way. Qi

    Wrong. They guestimated the amount of matter that should exist to enable the theory of an expanding
    universe; then they calculated the amount of matter in the visible universe., and the two numbers
    were not even close.

    As someone correctly said that the influence decreased according to the square of the distance.

    I postulated the theory 12 years ago to a college professor friend of mine that there were black
    holes at the center of every spiral galaxy, so I think the dark matter is black holes.

    > cannot be detected or measured, and your "first hand experience" will be insufficient evidence to
    > earn you that Nobel.

    I will take first hand experience over a second rate opinion every time.

    I am not trying to earn a Nobel for two reasons.

    1. I have no impressive degrees where people will listen to me.

    2. I would have to deal with airheads like you and Tom. I am quite happy using universal lifeforce
    energy on a daily basis to heal myself and friends.

    Aloha nui loa; Two Bears.

    Received the title 'master' 8 times; and STILL working on self mastery. Click the link to read my
    HUNA intro. http://www.geocities.com/huna101
     
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