Tied & Soldered at Flanders

[CAMPYBOB]

Strength for the cobbles...photos from James Huang at Cyclingnews: http://www.cyclingnews.com

Photos from the Tour of flanders, run yesterday.

3x, round spokes, plain gauge, T&S. A recipe for strength. Oh wait...broken front spokes flopping around do great gobs of damage...


This bike was a late entry for rider J. Brandt. defying the laws of science and physics...well, literary physics anyway!



I guess the Fernese boys were only worried about broken drive-side spokes flopping around...not spider-webbing the radial off-drive side! Tsk tsk.

 

[dhk2]

CB, the photos of the blobs of solder on the spoke crossings on a pro bike certainly prove your point. Doubt you'll be plagued by those idjit physics guys like Alienator and Tafi again any time soon.....I'm sure they are slinking away quietly now with all their scientific explanations. Enjoy your victory....you've won this one!

 

[alienator]

CB, the photos of the blobs of solder on the spoke crossings on a pro bike certainly prove your point. Doubt you'll be plagued by those idjit physics guys like Alienator and Tafi again any time soon.....I'm sure they are slinking away quietly now with all their scientific explanations. Enjoy your victory....you've won this one!

Why bother with responding? Critical thought, scientific method......all that stuff must be hokum. If you really want to measure something, you have to do with your butt.

 

[swampy1970]

Originally Posted by CAMPYBOB .

Strength for the cobbles...photos from James Huang at Cyclingnews: http://www.cyclingnews.com

Photos from the Tour of flanders, run yesterday.

3x, round spokes, plain gauge, T&S. A recipe for strength. Oh wait...broken front spokes flopping around do great gobs of damage...


This bike was a late entry for rider J. Brandt. defying the laws of science and physics...well, literary physics anyway!



I guess the Fernese boys were only worried about broken drive-side spokes flopping around...not spider-webbing the radial off-drive side! Tsk tsk.

If Pippo had used a set of modern wheels he would have had a better chance of getting closer to beating Boonen... but I'm sure he's sitting at home thinking "boy, I'm so glad that in a race where noone seemed to break spokes that I had tied and soldered wheels despite finishing about 1/2 bike length back. Aero, schmero... 36 spoke air-whisks for me!!!!"

Actually, the fact that only one team ran tied and soldered wheels counters your arguement.

 

[CAMPYBOB]

CB, the photos of the blobs of solder on the spoke crossings on a pro bike certainly prove your point.

No way. It proves professional wheelbuilders, professional riders and professional mechanics are idjuts. Hell, all they had to do was consult the pogs on an internet forum and they could have saved themselves a ton of money and enough time to down another beer or twelve.


Why bother with responding?

Why bother tying and soldering? Science says it does...nothing.

Other than keep a couple of poor old Italians in vino money.

...and half of the wheel's busted straight pull spokes from fouling...the other half?

 

[CAMPYBOB]

If Pippo had used a set of modern wheels he would have had a better chance of getting closer to beating Boonen...

Sadly, as an Italian, he committed a mortal sin. Running shimaNO.

The Pope was not amused...and he has connections.

And while you're sounding a bit weirded out about the little coiffed Italian...he chose...poorly. Poz ignored the Campster and nothing good ever comes of that!



That's a closeup of blondie's wheelio. Poor chap...if only he would have T&S he could have taken Tommy Three Times in that two-up sprint (Ballan's lips just aren't aero enough to duck walk to the line). Air whisks, indeed.



Notice those old, flat rims.Leftover Ambrosios from two Popes ago? Well, better wind up up in a fever pitch about riding those antiques. Theres a scientific arguement to be typed out there, for sure. Or was that Fignon's ponytail? It's all in the Cd tables, I assure you...

So much butthurt. And it ain't from the cobble stones. Oh well, dragons get slayed, but the lion of Flanders still roars.

 

[steve]

Originally Posted by CAMPYBOB .




Notice those old, flat rims.Leftover Ambrosios from two Popes ago? Well, better wind up up in a fever pitch about riding those antiques. Theres a scientific arguement to be typed out there, for sure. Or was that Fignon's ponytail? It's all in the Cd tables, I assure you...

So much butthurt. And it ain't from the cobble stones. Oh well, dragons get slayed, but the lion of Flanders still roars.

Boonen's kit looks awesome, I wouldn't be surprised if his knicks and jersey gave him that bit extra to get the win. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/eek.gif

 

[CAMPYBOB]

LMAO!

If Fabian DID have a motor hidden in his new 'flex joint seatpost' Madone ver. 9.174...er...Domanetrix, he still would not have out-kicked Tom.

Scientifically speaking, it has now been proven by a team of scientists (currently down at The Scientific Lion Pub & Frits Grill) that is WAS the mysterious electrical tape that was wrapped around Boner's SRAM brake lever hoods that enabled his victory. Sealing off the air entry points into the shifter mechanism cavities reduced turbulance and drag...interestingly, by the same amount that Ballan's lips added.

Poz, unconcerned by his placing, was last seen trying to find a straight hair dresser to touch up his frosting.

The UCI is reviewing the legality of electrical tape as its' profile exceeds the 3:1 ratio currently permitted.

 

[danfoz]

Originally Posted by steve .


Boonen's kit looks awesome, I wouldn't be surprised if his knicks and jersey gave him that bit extra to get the win. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/eek.gif

I kept checking to see if he was riding a Bianchi.

 

[swampy1970]

Originally Posted by CAMPYBOB .

If Pippo had used a set of modern wheels he would have had a better chance of getting closer to beating Boonen...

Sadly, as an Italian, he committed a mortal sin. Running shimaNO.

The Pope was not amused...and he has connections.

And while you're sounding a bit weirded out about the little coiffed Italian...he chose...poorly. Poz ignored the Campster and nothing good ever comes of that!



That's a closeup of blondie's wheelio. Poor chap...if only he would have T&S he could have taken Tommy Three Times in that two-up sprint (Ballan's lips just aren't aero enough to duck walk to the line). Air whisks, indeed.



Notice those old, flat rims.Leftover Ambrosios from two Popes ago? Well, better wind up up in a fever pitch about riding those antiques. Theres a scientific arguement to be typed out there, for sure. Or was that Fignon's ponytail? It's all in the Cd tables, I assure you...

So much butthurt. And it ain't from the cobble stones. Oh well, dragons get slayed, but the lion of Flanders still roars.

So in a thread purporting the use of tied and soldered wheels, the team leader of the team that was running said wheels wasn't even using them.

Fantastic example! Keep up the good work

 

[CAMPYBOB]

First, you state this: If Pippo had used a set of modern wheels he would have had a better chance of getting closer to beating Boonen... but I'm sure he's sitting at home thinking "boy, I'm so glad that in a race where noone seemed to break spokes that I had tied and soldered wheels despite finishing about 1/2 bike length back. Aero, schmero... 36 spoke air-whisks for me!!!!"

Then you say this: So in a thread purporting the use of tied and soldered wheels, the team leader of the team that was running said wheels wasn't even using them.

It's become painfully obvious you've joined the clueless.

5 Hail Tulios for you and 10 Stations of the Croce. Then, go study string theory and air whisks...and sin no more, my son.

 

[swampy1970]

Originally Posted by CAMPYBOB .

First, you state this: If Pippo had used a set of modern wheels he would have had a better chance of getting closer to beating Boonen... but I'm sure he's sitting at home thinking "boy, I'm so glad that in a race where no-one seemed to break spokes that I had tied and soldered wheels despite finishing about 1/2 bike length back. Aero, schmero... 36 spoke air-whisks for me!!!!"

Then you say this: So in a thread purporting the use of tied and soldered wheels, the team leader of the team that was running said wheels wasn't even using them.

It's become painfully obvious you've joined the clueless.

5 Hail Tulios for you and 10 Stations of the Croce. Then, go study string theory and air whisks...and sin no more, my son.

For some reason I thought, based upon your posts that the entire team were using the same wheels - but this wasn't the case. My bad for making that ASSumption. Maybe I was being sucked into the hype that tied and soldered was so great that I didn't bother to look. That said - I really shouldn't have take a look at a photo that someone posts, seek out the source and then go look at all the other pictures just incase there is something different being used on the team "just in case..."

That Pippo is running a rather unaero profile rim with minimal spokes goes against your very argument that tied and soldered = stiff = good. He is the team leader after all and should be on the best kit they have available. That however, doesn't make up for Pippo's odd wheel choice. Flanders ain't Roubaix and if it comes down to the wire on the rather nice 5+km run in then at least be running something similar to Zipp 303's or better. This isn't 1985... Personal preference or science? If a numpty like me can use a powertap and ride around a little circuit and take that data and see a measurable difference in power to ride at a given speed for a different choice of equipment then it's inexcusable that a Pro-Tour rider is making poor equipment choices in the biggest races on the calendar.

I did the stations of the Croce back in the day when I ran Croce d'Aune Delta calipers, along with a full Campag group. Never again. They were sh1t. The folks at Campag that came up with the delta caliper needed to be nailed to a cross and drowned in the River Styx.

 

[CAMPYBOB]

Holy mother of Campagnolo T-wrenches, Batman! Even AG2R is T&S!



http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/tour-de-france-tech-oakley-lens-coatings-for-the-rain

AG2R instead requested that they be stiffened up. As a result, the bladed and butted stainless steel spokes have been replaced with straight-gauge ones, the rear wheels are laced two-cross on both sides, and the rear wheels are also tied-and-soldered...

It sounds like AG2R need a team of...scientists to set them on the straight and norrow. Running this **** at the Tour last year? WTH is wrong with them?

Fire the riders and managers and wheel builders and hire them a bunch of guys with pocket protectors and a 45 Kg weight to hang off the rims.

"Stiffening" up a wheel? Are they fracking nutz? Hell, no pro racer could possible evar tell any difference! Bring out the strain gages! Wire up the accelerometers! Laser scanners everywhere!

 

[swampy1970]

Originally Posted by CAMPYBOB .

Holy mother of Campagnolo T-wrenches, Batman! Even AG2R is T&S!



http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/tour-de-france-tech-oakley-lens-coatings-for-the-rain

AG2R instead requested that they be stiffened up. As a result, the bladed and butted stainless steel spokes have been replaced with straight-gauge ones, the rear wheels are laced two-cross on both sides, and the rear wheels are also tied-and-soldered...

It sounds like AG2R need a team of...scientists to set them on the straight and norrow. Running this **** at the Tour last year? WTH is wrong with them?

Fire the riders and managers and wheel builders and hire them a bunch of guys with pocket protectors and a 45 Kg weight to hang off the rims.

"Stiffening" up a wheel? Are they fracking nutz? Hell, no pro racer could possible evar tell any difference! Bring out the strain gages! Wire up the accelerometers! Laser scanners everywhere!

Obviously, tied and soldered is once again not good enough for the team leader on that team. In the very same article it mentions that their team leader is running non-tied and soldered wheels.

"Team captain Nicolas Roche also gets a special set of Reynolds' RZR 46 flagship hoops"

 

[CAMPYBOB]

Jeeze oh Pete! Why would any pro ride such an abortion? Don't they KNOW?

Emilien Berges, riding P-R 2008.




Oh ****...apparantly another antique Ambrosio!

 

[CAMPYBOB]

"Team captain [COLOR= #0066cc]Nicolas Roche[/COLOR] also gets a special set of Reynolds' RZR 46 flagship hoops"

He most certainly DOES! With asymetrical diameter hub flanges to increase...STIFFNESS!

But, scientists have explained to us that no wheel can be stiffened by increasing the effective hub flange diameter.

I suggest we send the ESRT (Emergency Scientific Response Team) over to Reynolds...STAT! Can we get them to HALO in?

Someone needs to set them straight and I know of no more qualified group of highly edumacated eggheadz that Team Cyber Goofs! Suit up, boys! I want boots on the ground and calculators smoking in FIVE!

 

[CAMPYBOB]

Holy ****! Movistar, too??? I was ASSURED only one team does this ****!!! I've been snookered! Stymied!

Et tu, 2-cross T&S?

What's this? Campy Thom Edison shifting with...T&S? Have the cycling Godz gone mad! It's insane, I tell you!

The obviously mis-informed and erroneous quote with da piktur...

Note the tied and soldered spokes on the rear wheel to stiffen them up.​

Send in SWAT (Scientists With All-knowing Theses)!!! Set the world back on its' axis!



http://www.bikerumor.com/2011/04/04/campagnolo-electronic-group-at-flanders-in-full-force-up-close-pics/

At least they were Campy rims!

 

[CAMPYBOB]

Say it ain't so! Andre Greipel of High Road ran T&S?!?! At the bloody Giro no less? so we have classics, the Tour and the Giro? What next? some guy from Ohio that knows what a pair of T&S wheels do?

No wonder the team folded! Poor Bobby stapleton must have had a dynamic entry team of...scientists! visit his service course!

Oh...the incorrect caption!

Andre Greipel (Columbia-HTC) apparently feels the need for more stiffness in the rear wheel judging by the tied-and-soldered non-driveside spokes.

WTH? This is the opposite side of some of the othe single-tyers! Must only want the left side of his bike unscratched after popping a spoke. Either that or the Euros still haven't figured out how to simply twist a busted spoke around a good one, swap wheels with a team mate or wait for the wheel wagon and get the 'magic wrench' used to push them back into the field...

linkaroo: http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/photos/custom-painted-bikes-for-the-93rd-giro-ditalia/120026

 

[CAMPYBOB]

Mother of god! Talk about juxtaposition! Electrified shifting and ABEC Class 9 ceramic bearings used with technology discredited by Galileo! (Figaro, Magnifico).



How is it those professionals that demand the very latest in state of the sport technology still demand T&S? The Dark Ages are still upon cycling!

Remedial Scientific Theorists, clean up in aisle 5, cleanup in aisle 5 please!

 

[swampy1970]

Really...

Just think - if we posted all the pics of folks that won races on wheels that weren't tied and soldered we'd have many thousands of pages in this thread already.

So, just to recap the list of folks that you've pictured with tied and soldered wheels.

Greipel - the Giro - but stage 3 was in Holland a featured cobbles and crashes - hence that choice of wheels. He didnt win. Instead he threatened to punch Weylandt in the face. Weylandt oddly, wasn't on tied and soldered wheels.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/races/giro-ditalia-2010/stage-3/results

Andrei would have to wait until the end of that Giro, and for all the other on form sprinters to go home, to win one... Oh, and missing a time cut by a sizeable margin.

Movistar at Flanders - from the race footage I didn't even know they were there.

Nicholas Roche - did he win anything on the super stiffer version of the wheels or did folks on non tied and soldered wheels **** in his wheaties?

I could give you a pic of someone that's actually won more than a few races, including on T&S'd wheels - but I'll leave you floudering like a fish for a while longer.

Reynolds wheels - for stiffness?

The Reynolds RZR series was derived from the Lew Racing VT-1. Given it is just about the least stiff wheel on the planet, they needed to do something to make it stiffer than a wet ramen noodle.



How stiff would they be on moderately bumpy roads where vertical and lateral compliance would be required?