Time to build some new wheels - opinions sought.

Discussion in 'Mountain Bikes' started by Jonesy, Jun 10, 2004.

  1. Mark Hickey

    Mark Hickey Guest

    [email protected] (Jonesy) wrote:

    >"D T W .../\\..." <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >news:<[email protected]>...
    >>
    >>
    >> Oh No! Now you tell me .......... &^@&#!&^%@
    >
    >Sorry I wasn't there for you sooner...
    >
    >> I've got two sets of disk wheels with Mavic rims and
    >> Shimano hubs. Probably have a few thousand miles
    >> between them.
    >
    >I've got a secret - don't tell ANYONE - me too. They've
    >worked just fine.

    As much as it pains me to agree with Jonesy ;-) I have to.
    I've got an ancient pair of XT hubs on my tandem, and
    they've got tens of thousands of miles on them... never a
    glitch. In fact, I've never had a problem with a Shimano
    hub - ever.

    I tend to avoid Mavic rims, but that's mainly because
    they're pricier than other similar rims, and tend to have
    "gee-whiz features" that are of no to negative value
    (anodizing, machined sidewalls, welded seams). That said, I
    do have at least couple pairs of wheels with Mavic rims that
    have been as good as anything I've ever used.

    AND, Mavic does a great job supporting races (including
    loaning me a kinda goofy tubeless rear wheel when I blew
    mine up at a 24 hour race).

    >> Jonesy says I should not have bought them ;-( Anyone want
    >> to buy them. Please. Help Meeeeeeeeee
    >
    >LOL. Run what works for you. It's your money.

    Shhhhh.... offer him $10 for the wheels...

    Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles http://www.habcycles.com Home of
    the $695 ti frame
     


  2. Klydesdale

    Klydesdale Guest

    "Mark Hickey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:eek:[email protected]...
    > [email protected] (Jonesy) wrote:
    >
    > >"D T W .../\\..." <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > >>
    > >>
    > >> Oh No! Now you tell me .......... &^@&#!&^%@
    > >
    > >Sorry I wasn't there for you sooner...
    > >
    > >> I've got two sets of disk wheels with Mavic rims and
    > >> Shimano hubs.
    Probably
    > >> have a few thousand miles between them.
    > >
    > >I've got a secret - don't tell ANYONE - me too. They've
    > >worked just
    fine.
    >
    > As much as it pains me to agree with Jonesy ;-) I have to.
    > I've got an ancient pair of XT hubs on my tandem, and
    > they've got tens of thousands of miles on them... never a
    > glitch. In fact, I've never had a problem with a Shimano
    > hub - ever.
    >

    That's completely different from my experience I've got four
    set of wheels in my garage right now with late model XT hubs
    on them - two disc, two regular. Each of the axles on the
    rear hubs has bent on me at least once. I can tell they've
    bent when I start getting an uneven ratcheting sound out of
    the freewheel. Often the lock-nuts/cones work themselves
    loose when the axle bends.

    My old LX and STX freehubs were even worse than the XT. On a
    couple of these, the inner freehub body that mounts to the
    hub shell actually cracked.
     
  3. Jonesy

    Jonesy Guest

    Mark Hickey <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > [email protected] (Jonesy) wrote:
    >
    > >"D T W .../\\..." <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > >news:<[email protected]>...
    > >>
    > >>
    > >> Oh No! Now you tell me .......... &^@&#!&^%@
    > >
    > >Sorry I wasn't there for you sooner...
    > >
    > >> I've got two sets of disk wheels with Mavic rims and
    > >> Shimano hubs. Probably have a few thousand miles
    > >> between them.
    > >
    > >I've got a secret - don't tell ANYONE - me too. They've
    > >worked just fine.
    >
    > As much as it pains me to agree with Jonesy ;-) I have to.

    Hey now, just because our political inclinations differ...

    It sort of confirms my suspicions: Conservatives really do
    think than anyone who doesn't hold their beliefs are fools
    or idiots or some combination. Absolutely astounding, when
    you really think about it.

    > I've got an ancient pair of XT hubs on my tandem, and
    > they've got tens of thousands of miles on them... never a
    > glitch. In fact, I've never had a problem with a Shimano
    > hub - ever.

    On a price/performance scale, they are very hard to beat.
    Impossible, even.

    No, this isn't about how suitable they are for the task,
    because they are quite suitable, for most riders. Since I am
    on the edge of clydesdale, they might be a touch underbuilt
    for the strains I put on them. It's more about make choices
    to keep money out of the hands of the hands of the Big S.
    Sure, it's like spitting in the ocean, but that's OK. I
    guess if they change their standards every year, pretty soon
    people will buy a new gruppo every year...

    Uhh, no. Shimano derailleurs shift really well - better than
    SRAM stuff (IMO.) But if they change from high- to low- and
    back to high-normal (or whatever), then folks have to buy
    new shifters, and now new MTB brifters...

    Uh, no, again. I don't want to have to change my brake lever
    and shifter just because I broke my RD and they don't have
    that kind anymore. Or disk brake attachment interface. Or BB
    type/style. Better to just skip Shimano altogether.

    > I tend to avoid Mavic rims, but that's mainly because
    > they're pricier than other similar rims, and tend to have
    > "gee-whiz features" that are of no to negative value
    > (anodizing, machined sidewalls, welded seams). That said,
    > I do have at least couple pairs of wheels with Mavic rims
    > that have been as good as anything I've ever used.

    Since Mr. Jozwik's wheel failed at the welded seam, this is
    part of my aversion to Mavic. Now, maybe it was just the
    fact that it was a low-end rim. Mine haven't had any
    problems (I have two sets), but that doesn't mean that I
    trust them. Do you really want to have to ask yourself, "Is
    the wheel going to survive rolling off that curb?"

    > AND, Mavic does a great job supporting races (including
    > loaning me a kinda goofy tubeless rear wheel when I blew
    > mine up at a 24 hour race).

    I think that's great, too. Hell, Winston supported a lot of
    automotive races, too. Should I start smoking? Seriously
    now, racing support is great, but I don't really care at all
    about MTB racing, any more than I care about stock-car
    racing. If Mavic supported trailbuilding, advocacy and
    training, I'd be more impressed.

    But they are French. And I still have a problem with them
    over not allowing overflight for the F-111 Libya "visit."
    Deep past for some folk, but totally uncalled-for IMO.

    > >LOL. Run what works for you. It's your money.
    >
    > Shhhhh.... offer him $10 for the wheels...

    I would never take advantage of someone's weakness like
    that. I wonder if he'll take $20...

    :)
    --
    Jonesy
     
  4. Jd

    Jd Guest

    [email protected] (Jonesy) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > [email protected] (JD) wrote in message
    > news:<[email protected]>...
    > > [email protected] (Jonesy) wrote in message news:-
    > > <[email protected]>...
    > > > OK, so now that we know not to buy Mavic rims<snip>
    > >
    > > That's funny.
    >
    > Not really. Remember this?
    >
    > http://tinyurl.com/2vhpg
    >
    > Sure, it was a cheapo X223 wheel, but still...

    Just like any cheapo rim from any manufacturer.

    > Plus, they are French. Some folks care, some don't.
    >
    > I do.

    For heavy duty XC, nothing beats the X618.

    JD
     
  5. John Morgan

    John Morgan Guest

    > It's more about make choices to keep money out of the
    > hands of the hands of the Big S. Sure, it's like spitting
    > in the ocean, but that's OK. I guess if they change their
    > standards every year, pretty soon people will buy a new
    > gruppo every year...
    >
    > Uhh, no. Shimano derailleurs shift really well - better
    > than SRAM stuff (IMO.) But if they change from high- to
    > low- and back to high-normal (or whatever), then folks
    > have to buy new shifters, and now new MTB brifters...
    >
    > Uh, no, again. I don't want to have to change my brake
    > lever and shifter just because I broke my RD and they
    > don't have that kind anymore. Or disk brake attachment
    > interface. Or BB type/style. Better to just skip Shimano
    > altogether.

    I know this is not wheel-related, but I thought I might just
    jump in here and say that Shimano's dual control levers work
    with any of their derailers, new or old. The world isn't
    such a bad place after all, eh?

    The disc brake rotor interface is new and proprietary to
    their hubs, but you can use XT rotors bolted on to any
    hub you want with the new XTR disc calipers, again with
    no problems.

    The bottom bracket argument isn't much of anything, since
    bottom brackets only cost around $30 anyway. Usually you
    decide what kind of cranks you want and then buy the bottom
    bracket to match... by using the new external bearing setup,
    they save you the trouble of buying a bottom bracket
    separately.

    John Morgan SRAM fan.
     
  6. Reco Diver

    Reco Diver Guest

    John Morgan <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > > It's more about make choices to keep money out of the
    > > hands of the hands of the Big S. Sure, it's like
    > > spitting in the ocean, but that's OK. I guess if they
    > > change their standards every year, pretty soon people
    > > will buy a new gruppo every year...
    > >
    > > Uhh, no. Shimano derailleurs shift really well - better
    > > than SRAM stuff (IMO.) But if they change from high- to
    > > low- and back to high-normal (or whatever), then folks
    > > have to buy new shifters, and now new MTB brifters...
    > >
    > > Uh, no, again. I don't want to have to change my brake
    > > lever and shifter just because I broke my RD and they
    > > don't have that kind anymore. Or disk brake attachment
    > > interface. Or BB type/style. Better to just skip Shimano
    > > altogether.
    >
    > I know this is not wheel-related, but I thought I might
    > just jump in here and say that Shimano's dual control
    > levers work with any of their derailers, new or old. The
    > world isn't such a bad place after all, eh?
    >
    > The disc brake rotor interface is new and proprietary to
    > their hubs,

    DT and others have already licensed the center lock
    rotor/hub interface. DT is already producing the 240, 240
    single speed, and Onyx in center lock.

    R
     
  7. Jonesy

    Jonesy Guest

    John Morgan <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > > It's more about make choices to keep money out of the
    > > hands of the hands of the Big S. Sure, it's like
    > > spitting in the ocean, but that's OK. I guess if they
    > > change their standards every year, pretty soon people
    > > will buy a new gruppo every year...
    > >
    > > Uhh, no. Shimano derailleurs shift really well - better
    > > than SRAM stuff (IMO.) But if they change from high- to
    > > low- and back to high-normal (or whatever), then folks
    > > have to buy new shifters, and now new MTB brifters...
    > >
    > > Uh, no, again. I don't want to have to change my brake
    > > lever and shifter just because I broke my RD and they
    > > don't have that kind anymore. Or disk brake attachment
    > > interface. Or BB type/style. Better to just skip Shimano
    > > altogether.
    >
    > I know this is not wheel-related

    It *is* related to my comments...

    > but I thought I might just jump in here and say that
    > Shimano's dual control levers work with any of their
    > derailers, new or old.

    Right *now* they do. What will it be like in three years,
    when they discontinue the DC stuff that works with old bits?

    > The world isn't such a bad place after all, eh?

    Not right at this second, no.

    > The disc brake rotor interface is new and proprietary to
    > their hubs, but you can use XT rotors bolted on to any hub
    > you want with the new XTR disc calipers, again with no
    > problems.

    DT 240 and Onyx hubsets have the Centerlock splines on
    them. But hey
    - here again we have another standard, and who knows if the
    XT hubs will retain the ISO mounts. Then I have to buy
    rotors, too. I think my Avid rotors will last a while, and
    I want to retain the ISO interface. I have no idea how far
    down the food chain Centerlock will propagate. LX?
    Straight Deore? Does anyone know what sort of gear will be
    available three years from now, such that if I need to
    replace some part, I only have to replace *that one part*?

    > The bottom bracket argument isn't much of anything, since
    > bottom brackets only cost around $30 anyway.

    It's not about merely the BB. So, let's say tomorrow, I bust
    my XT crank arm. *Right now*, I can probably find an XT
    Octalink crankarm or crankset to replace it. In three years?
    In five years? I'll bet that ISIS will still be going strong
    then. Not only do they have a new crankset standard, but
    they have been carrying 3 *other* BB types: V2 Octalink, V1
    Octalink, and square taper. I'm going to pick up 4 extra
    Octalink BBs (two for each bike) and when they are done, the
    cranks will be replaced with some non-Shimano stuff.

    BTW, did you see the new Saint gruppo, and how the RD is
    attached? Different standard...

    > Usually you decide what kind of cranks you want and then
    > buy the bottom bracket to match...

    Yup, I have Octalink XTs on right now - both bikes. They are
    nice, and were relatively inexpensive for their quality. In
    three years, how many new Octalink XT cranksets do you think
    I might be able to buy?

    > by using the new external bearing setup, they save you the
    > trouble of buying a bottom bracket separately.

    As you say, a $30 BB is not an issue. As I was shopping for
    hubs the other day, I asked my not-so-LBS about XT ISO disk
    hubs. One of his catalogs doesn't even have the M756s any
    more. Hmmmm. How long before they stop production on
    Octalink BBs? (Thus rendering my expensive XT cranksets
    useless upon BB failure.)

    Shimano is doing it's best to make the old gear obsolete,
    such that if you break one thing some time in the future,
    you'll be obligated to buy a whole bunch of stuff to replace
    perfectly fucntional, but now-obsolete, ancillary gear. I
    very much object to throwing away (giving away, selling for
    some miniscule price) perfectly usable bike gear. Standard
    ISO hubs, conventionally-return-sprung RDs, ISIS
    BB/cranksets, separate brake and shifter controls. I hope
    bike consumers also see what I see, so that they might
    choose their poison with open eyes, whether that be poison
    dished out by the Big S, or some other poison.

    You're an SRAM fan - me too. Decent gear, made of ah, ah -
    death to you plastic, but still quite functional. I find the
    drivetrain to shift slightly less precisely than Shimano
    stuff, but if I didn't have two bikes running the stuff side-by-
    side, I'm not sure I'd notice. Still, as long as my current
    Shimano stuff works, I'll keep using it. But I'm not buying
    any more, if I can help it.
    --
    Jonesy
     
  8. Jonesy

    Jonesy Guest

    [email protected] (JD) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > [email protected] (Jonesy) wrote in message
    > news:<[email protected]>...
    > > [email protected] (JD) wrote in message news:<ebf270c9.04-
    > > [email protected]>...
    > > > [email protected] (Jonesy) wrote in message new-
    > > > s:<[email protected]>...
    > > > > OK, so now that we know not to buy Mavic rims<snip>
    > > >
    > > > That's funny.
    > >
    > > Not really. Remember this?
    > >
    > > http://tinyurl.com/2vhpg
    > >
    > > Sure, it was a cheapo X223 wheel, but still...
    >
    > Just like any cheapo rim from any manufacturer.

    They didn't support their product. He has video proof of
    JRA. That's my main beef. And the French connection...

    > For heavy duty XC, nothing beats the X618.

    I am a featherweight in comparison to some Freak who pimps,
    errr, rides X618s. I don't need "heavy-duty," but I *do*
    need something better than X223s (or whatever the
    designation is now X139???) I want it strong and light.
    Expense is not the concern with the rims. (It is with the
    hubs - CK for $400? YeeeOUCH!)

    :)
    --
    Jonesy
     
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