Time to build some new wheels - opinions sought.

[Mark Hickey]

[email protected] (Jonesy) wrote:

>"D T W .../\\..." <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:<[email protected]>...
>>
>>
>> Oh No! Now you tell me .......... &^@&#!&^%@
>
>Sorry I wasn't there for you sooner...
>
>> I've got two sets of disk wheels with Mavic rims and
>> Shimano hubs. Probably have a few thousand miles
>> between them.
>
>I've got a secret - don't tell ANYONE - me too. They've
>worked just fine.

As much as it pains me to agree with Jonesy ;-) I have to.
I've got an ancient pair of XT hubs on my tandem, and
they've got tens of thousands of miles on them... never a
glitch. In fact, I've never had a problem with a Shimano
hub - ever.

I tend to avoid Mavic rims, but that's mainly because
they're pricier than other similar rims, and tend to have
"gee-whiz features" that are of no to negative value
(anodizing, machined sidewalls, welded seams). That said, I
do have at least couple pairs of wheels with Mavic rims that
have been as good as anything I've ever used.

AND, Mavic does a great job supporting races (including
loaning me a kinda goofy tubeless rear wheel when I blew
mine up at a 24 hour race).

>> Jonesy says I should not have bought them ;-( Anyone want
>> to buy them. Please. Help Meeeeeeeeee
>
>LOL. Run what works for you. It's your money.

Shhhhh.... offer him $10 for the wheels...

Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles http://www.habcycles.com Home of
the $695 ti frame

 

[Klydesdale]

"Mark Hickey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news[email protected]...
> [email protected] (Jonesy) wrote:
>
> >"D T W .../\\..." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> >>
> >>
> >> Oh No! Now you tell me .......... &^@&#!&^%@
> >
> >Sorry I wasn't there for you sooner...
> >
> >> I've got two sets of disk wheels with Mavic rims and
> >> Shimano hubs.
Probably
> >> have a few thousand miles between them.
> >
> >I've got a secret - don't tell ANYONE - me too. They've
> >worked just
fine.
>
> As much as it pains me to agree with Jonesy ;-) I have to.
> I've got an ancient pair of XT hubs on my tandem, and
> they've got tens of thousands of miles on them... never a
> glitch. In fact, I've never had a problem with a Shimano
> hub - ever.
>

That's completely different from my experience I've got four
set of wheels in my garage right now with late model XT hubs
on them - two disc, two regular. Each of the axles on the
rear hubs has bent on me at least once. I can tell they've
bent when I start getting an uneven ratcheting sound out of
the freewheel. Often the lock-nuts/cones work themselves
loose when the axle bends.

My old LX and STX freehubs were even worse than the XT. On a
couple of these, the inner freehub body that mounts to the
hub shell actually cracked.

 

[Jonesy]

Mark Hickey <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> [email protected] (Jonesy) wrote:
>
> >"D T W .../\\..." <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >news:<[email protected]>...
> >>
> >>
> >> Oh No! Now you tell me .......... &^@&#!&^%@
> >
> >Sorry I wasn't there for you sooner...
> >
> >> I've got two sets of disk wheels with Mavic rims and
> >> Shimano hubs. Probably have a few thousand miles
> >> between them.
> >
> >I've got a secret - don't tell ANYONE - me too. They've
> >worked just fine.
>
> As much as it pains me to agree with Jonesy ;-) I have to.

Hey now, just because our political inclinations differ...

It sort of confirms my suspicions: Conservatives really do
think than anyone who doesn't hold their beliefs are fools
or idiots or some combination. Absolutely astounding, when
you really think about it.

> I've got an ancient pair of XT hubs on my tandem, and
> they've got tens of thousands of miles on them... never a
> glitch. In fact, I've never had a problem with a Shimano
> hub - ever.

On a price/performance scale, they are very hard to beat.
Impossible, even.

No, this isn't about how suitable they are for the task,
because they are quite suitable, for most riders. Since I am
on the edge of clydesdale, they might be a touch underbuilt
for the strains I put on them. It's more about make choices
to keep money out of the hands of the hands of the Big S.
Sure, it's like spitting in the ocean, but that's OK. I
guess if they change their standards every year, pretty soon
people will buy a new gruppo every year...

Uhh, no. Shimano derailleurs shift really well - better than
SRAM stuff (IMO.) But if they change from high- to low- and
back to high-normal (or whatever), then folks have to buy
new shifters, and now new MTB brifters...

Uh, no, again. I don't want to have to change my brake lever
and shifter just because I broke my RD and they don't have
that kind anymore. Or disk brake attachment interface. Or BB
type/style. Better to just skip Shimano altogether.

> I tend to avoid Mavic rims, but that's mainly because
> they're pricier than other similar rims, and tend to have
> "gee-whiz features" that are of no to negative value
> (anodizing, machined sidewalls, welded seams). That said,
> I do have at least couple pairs of wheels with Mavic rims
> that have been as good as anything I've ever used.

Since Mr. Jozwik's wheel failed at the welded seam, this is
part of my aversion to Mavic. Now, maybe it was just the
fact that it was a low-end rim. Mine haven't had any
problems (I have two sets), but that doesn't mean that I
trust them. Do you really want to have to ask yourself, "Is
the wheel going to survive rolling off that curb?"

> AND, Mavic does a great job supporting races (including
> loaning me a kinda goofy tubeless rear wheel when I blew
> mine up at a 24 hour race).

I think that's great, too. Hell, Winston supported a lot of
automotive races, too. Should I start smoking? Seriously
now, racing support is great, but I don't really care at all
about MTB racing, any more than I care about stock-car
racing. If Mavic supported trailbuilding, advocacy and
training, I'd be more impressed.

But they are French. And I still have a problem with them
over not allowing overflight for the F-111 Libya "visit."
Deep past for some folk, but totally uncalled-for IMO.

> >LOL. Run what works for you. It's your money.
>
> Shhhhh.... offer him $10 for the wheels...

I would never take advantage of someone's weakness like
that. I wonder if he'll take $20...


--
Jonesy

 

[Jd]

[email protected] (Jonesy) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> [email protected] (JD) wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>...
> > [email protected] (Jonesy) wrote in message news:-
> > <[email protected]>...
> > > OK, so now that we know not to buy Mavic rims<snip>
> >
> > That's funny.
>
> Not really. Remember this?
>
> http://tinyurl.com/2vhpg
>
> Sure, it was a cheapo X223 wheel, but still...

Just like any cheapo rim from any manufacturer.

> Plus, they are French. Some folks care, some don't.
>
> I do.

For heavy duty XC, nothing beats the X618.

JD

 

[John Morgan]

> It's more about make choices to keep money out of the
> hands of the hands of the Big S. Sure, it's like spitting
> in the ocean, but that's OK. I guess if they change their
> standards every year, pretty soon people will buy a new
> gruppo every year...
>
> Uhh, no. Shimano derailleurs shift really well - better
> than SRAM stuff (IMO.) But if they change from high- to
> low- and back to high-normal (or whatever), then folks
> have to buy new shifters, and now new MTB brifters...
>
> Uh, no, again. I don't want to have to change my brake
> lever and shifter just because I broke my RD and they
> don't have that kind anymore. Or disk brake attachment
> interface. Or BB type/style. Better to just skip Shimano
> altogether.

I know this is not wheel-related, but I thought I might just
jump in here and say that Shimano's dual control levers work
with any of their derailers, new or old. The world isn't
such a bad place after all, eh?

The disc brake rotor interface is new and proprietary to
their hubs, but you can use XT rotors bolted on to any
hub you want with the new XTR disc calipers, again with
no problems.

The bottom bracket argument isn't much of anything, since
bottom brackets only cost around $30 anyway. Usually you
decide what kind of cranks you want and then buy the bottom
bracket to match... by using the new external bearing setup,
they save you the trouble of buying a bottom bracket
separately.

John Morgan SRAM fan.

 

[Reco Diver]

John Morgan <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<Rkrzc.70745$My6.10055@fed1read05>...
> > It's more about make choices to keep money out of the
> > hands of the hands of the Big S. Sure, it's like
> > spitting in the ocean, but that's OK. I guess if they
> > change their standards every year, pretty soon people
> > will buy a new gruppo every year...
> >
> > Uhh, no. Shimano derailleurs shift really well - better
> > than SRAM stuff (IMO.) But if they change from high- to
> > low- and back to high-normal (or whatever), then folks
> > have to buy new shifters, and now new MTB brifters...
> >
> > Uh, no, again. I don't want to have to change my brake
> > lever and shifter just because I broke my RD and they
> > don't have that kind anymore. Or disk brake attachment
> > interface. Or BB type/style. Better to just skip Shimano
> > altogether.
>
> I know this is not wheel-related, but I thought I might
> just jump in here and say that Shimano's dual control
> levers work with any of their derailers, new or old. The
> world isn't such a bad place after all, eh?
>
> The disc brake rotor interface is new and proprietary to
> their hubs,

DT and others have already licensed the center lock
rotor/hub interface. DT is already producing the 240, 240
single speed, and Onyx in center lock.

R

 

[Jonesy]

John Morgan <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<Rkrzc.70745$My6.10055@fed1read05>...
> > It's more about make choices to keep money out of the
> > hands of the hands of the Big S. Sure, it's like
> > spitting in the ocean, but that's OK. I guess if they
> > change their standards every year, pretty soon people
> > will buy a new gruppo every year...
> >
> > Uhh, no. Shimano derailleurs shift really well - better
> > than SRAM stuff (IMO.) But if they change from high- to
> > low- and back to high-normal (or whatever), then folks
> > have to buy new shifters, and now new MTB brifters...
> >
> > Uh, no, again. I don't want to have to change my brake
> > lever and shifter just because I broke my RD and they
> > don't have that kind anymore. Or disk brake attachment
> > interface. Or BB type/style. Better to just skip Shimano
> > altogether.
>
> I know this is not wheel-related

It *is* related to my comments...

> but I thought I might just jump in here and say that
> Shimano's dual control levers work with any of their
> derailers, new or old.

Right *now* they do. What will it be like in three years,
when they discontinue the DC stuff that works with old bits?

> The world isn't such a bad place after all, eh?

Not right at this second, no.

> The disc brake rotor interface is new and proprietary to
> their hubs, but you can use XT rotors bolted on to any hub
> you want with the new XTR disc calipers, again with no
> problems.

DT 240 and Onyx hubsets have the Centerlock splines on
them. But hey
- here again we have another standard, and who knows if the
XT hubs will retain the ISO mounts. Then I have to buy
rotors, too. I think my Avid rotors will last a while, and
I want to retain the ISO interface. I have no idea how far
down the food chain Centerlock will propagate. LX?
Straight Deore? Does anyone know what sort of gear will be
available three years from now, such that if I need to
replace some part, I only have to replace *that one part*?

> The bottom bracket argument isn't much of anything, since
> bottom brackets only cost around $30 anyway.

It's not about merely the BB. So, let's say tomorrow, I bust
my XT crank arm. *Right now*, I can probably find an XT
Octalink crankarm or crankset to replace it. In three years?
In five years? I'll bet that ISIS will still be going strong
then. Not only do they have a new crankset standard, but
they have been carrying 3 *other* BB types: V2 Octalink, V1
Octalink, and square taper. I'm going to pick up 4 extra
Octalink BBs (two for each bike) and when they are done, the
cranks will be replaced with some non-Shimano stuff.

BTW, did you see the new Saint gruppo, and how the RD is
attached? Different standard...

> Usually you decide what kind of cranks you want and then
> buy the bottom bracket to match...

Yup, I have Octalink XTs on right now - both bikes. They are
nice, and were relatively inexpensive for their quality. In
three years, how many new Octalink XT cranksets do you think
I might be able to buy?

> by using the new external bearing setup, they save you the
> trouble of buying a bottom bracket separately.

As you say, a $30 BB is not an issue. As I was shopping for
hubs the other day, I asked my not-so-LBS about XT ISO disk
hubs. One of his catalogs doesn't even have the M756s any
more. Hmmmm. How long before they stop production on
Octalink BBs? (Thus rendering my expensive XT cranksets
useless upon BB failure.)

Shimano is doing it's best to make the old gear obsolete,
such that if you break one thing some time in the future,
you'll be obligated to buy a whole bunch of stuff to replace
perfectly fucntional, but now-obsolete, ancillary gear. I
very much object to throwing away (giving away, selling for
some miniscule price) perfectly usable bike gear. Standard
ISO hubs, conventionally-return-sprung RDs, ISIS
BB/cranksets, separate brake and shifter controls. I hope
bike consumers also see what I see, so that they might
choose their poison with open eyes, whether that be poison
dished out by the Big S, or some other poison.

You're an SRAM fan - me too. Decent gear, made of ah, ah -
death to you plastic, but still quite functional. I find the
drivetrain to shift slightly less precisely than Shimano
stuff, but if I didn't have two bikes running the stuff side-by-
side, I'm not sure I'd notice. Still, as long as my current
Shimano stuff works, I'll keep using it. But I'm not buying
any more, if I can help it.
--
Jonesy

 

[Jonesy]

[email protected] (JD) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> [email protected] (Jonesy) wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>...
> > [email protected] (JD) wrote in message news:<ebf270c9.04-
> > [email protected]>...
> > > [email protected] (Jonesy) wrote in message new-
> > > s:<[email protected]>...
> > > > OK, so now that we know not to buy Mavic rims<snip>
> > >
> > > That's funny.
> >
> > Not really. Remember this?
> >
> > http://tinyurl.com/2vhpg
> >
> > Sure, it was a cheapo X223 wheel, but still...
>
> Just like any cheapo rim from any manufacturer.

They didn't support their product. He has video proof of
JRA. That's my main beef. And the French connection...

> For heavy duty XC, nothing beats the X618.

I am a featherweight in comparison to some Freak who pimps,
errr, rides X618s. I don't need "heavy-duty," but I *do*
need something better than X223s (or whatever the
designation is now X139???) I want it strong and light.
Expense is not the concern with the rims. (It is with the
hubs - CK for $400? YeeeOUCH!)


--
Jonesy