Time to build some new wheels - opinions sought.

[Mark Hickey]

[email protected] (Jonesy) wrote:

>"D T W .../\\..." <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
>>
>>
>> Oh No! Now you tell me .......... &^@&#!&^%@
>
>Sorry I wasn't there for you sooner...
>
>> I've got two sets of disk wheels with Mavic rims and Shimano hubs. Probably
>> have a few thousand miles between them.
>
>I've got a secret - don't tell ANYONE - me too. They've worked just fine.

As much as it pains me to agree with Jonesy ;-) I have to. I've got
an ancient pair of XT hubs on my tandem, and they've got tens of
thousands of miles on them... never a glitch. In fact, I've never had
a problem with a Shimano hub - ever.

I tend to avoid Mavic rims, but that's mainly because they're pricier
than other similar rims, and tend to have "gee-whiz features" that are
of no to negative value (anodizing, machined sidewalls, welded seams).
That said, I do have at least couple pairs of wheels with Mavic rims
that have been as good as anything I've ever used.

AND, Mavic does a great job supporting races (including loaning me a
kinda goofy tubeless rear wheel when I blew mine up at a 24 hour
race).

>> Jonesy says I should not have bought them ;-( Anyone want to buy them.
>> Please. Help Meeeeeeeeee
>
>LOL. Run what works for you. It's your money.

Shhhhh.... offer him $10 for the wheels...

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $695 ti frame

 

[KLydesdale]

"Mark Hickey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news[email protected]...
> [email protected] (Jonesy) wrote:
>
> >"D T W .../\\..." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> >>
> >>
> >> Oh No! Now you tell me .......... &^@&#!&^%@
> >
> >Sorry I wasn't there for you sooner...
> >
> >> I've got two sets of disk wheels with Mavic rims and Shimano hubs.
Probably
> >> have a few thousand miles between them.
> >
> >I've got a secret - don't tell ANYONE - me too. They've worked just
fine.
>
> As much as it pains me to agree with Jonesy ;-) I have to. I've got
> an ancient pair of XT hubs on my tandem, and they've got tens of
> thousands of miles on them... never a glitch. In fact, I've never had
> a problem with a Shimano hub - ever.
>

That's completely different from my experience I've got four set of wheels
in my garage right now with late model XT hubs on them - two disc, two
regular. Each of the axles on the rear hubs has bent on me at least once.
I can tell they've bent when I start getting an uneven ratcheting sound out
of the freewheel. Often the lock-nuts/cones work themselves loose when the
axle bends.

My old LX and STX freehubs were even worse than the XT. On a couple of
these, the inner freehub body that mounts to the hub shell actually
cracked.

 

[Jonesy]

Mark Hickey <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> [email protected] (Jonesy) wrote:
>
> >"D T W .../\\..." <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> >>
> >>
> >> Oh No! Now you tell me .......... &^@&#!&^%@
> >
> >Sorry I wasn't there for you sooner...
> >
> >> I've got two sets of disk wheels with Mavic rims and Shimano hubs. Probably
> >> have a few thousand miles between them.
> >
> >I've got a secret - don't tell ANYONE - me too. They've worked just fine.
>
> As much as it pains me to agree with Jonesy ;-) I have to.

Hey now, just because our political inclinations differ...

It sort of confirms my suspicions: Conservatives really do think than
anyone who doesn't hold their beliefs are fools or idiots or some
combination. Absolutely astounding, when you really think about it.

> I've got
> an ancient pair of XT hubs on my tandem, and they've got tens of
> thousands of miles on them... never a glitch. In fact, I've never had
> a problem with a Shimano hub - ever.

On a price/performance scale, they are very hard to beat. Impossible,
even.

No, this isn't about how suitable they are for the task, because they
are quite suitable, for most riders. Since I am on the edge of
clydesdale, they might be a touch underbuilt for the strains I put on
them. It's more about make choices to keep money out of the hands of
the hands of the Big S. Sure, it's like spitting in the ocean, but
that's OK. I guess if they change their standards every year, pretty
soon people will buy a new gruppo every year...

Uhh, no. Shimano derailleurs shift really well - better than SRAM
stuff (IMO.) But if they change from high- to low- and back to
high-normal (or whatever), then folks have to buy new shifters, and
now new MTB brifters...

Uh, no, again. I don't want to have to change my brake lever and
shifter just because I broke my RD and they don't have that kind
anymore. Or disk brake attachment interface. Or BB type/style.
Better to just skip Shimano altogether.

> I tend to avoid Mavic rims, but that's mainly because they're pricier
> than other similar rims, and tend to have "gee-whiz features" that are
> of no to negative value (anodizing, machined sidewalls, welded seams).
> That said, I do have at least couple pairs of wheels with Mavic rims
> that have been as good as anything I've ever used.

Since Mr. Jozwik's wheel failed at the welded seam, this is part of my
aversion to Mavic. Now, maybe it was just the fact that it was a
low-end rim. Mine haven't had any problems (I have two sets), but
that doesn't mean that I trust them. Do you really want to have to
ask yourself, "Is the wheel going to survive rolling off that curb?"

> AND, Mavic does a great job supporting races (including loaning me a
> kinda goofy tubeless rear wheel when I blew mine up at a 24 hour
> race).

I think that's great, too. Hell, Winston supported a lot of
automotive races, too. Should I start smoking? Seriously now, racing
support is great, but I don't really care at all about MTB racing, any
more than I care about stock-car racing. If Mavic supported
trailbuilding, advocacy and training, I'd be more impressed.

But they are French. And I still have a problem with them over not
allowing overflight for the F-111 Libya "visit." Deep past for some
folk, but totally uncalled-for IMO.

> >LOL. Run what works for you. It's your money.
>
> Shhhhh.... offer him $10 for the wheels...

I would never take advantage of someone's weakness like that. I
wonder if he'll take $20...


--
Jonesy

 

[JD]

[email protected] (Jonesy) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> [email protected] (JD) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> > [email protected] (Jonesy) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> > > OK, so now that we know not to buy Mavic rims<snip>
> >
> > That's funny.
>
> Not really. Remember this?
>
> http://tinyurl.com/2vhpg
>
> Sure, it was a cheapo X223 wheel, but still...

Just like any cheapo rim from any manufacturer.

> Plus, they are French. Some folks care, some don't.
>
> I do.

For heavy duty XC, nothing beats the X618.

JD

 

[John Morgan]

> It's more about make choices to keep money out of the hands of
> the hands of the Big S. Sure, it's like spitting in the ocean, but
> that's OK. I guess if they change their standards every year, pretty
> soon people will buy a new gruppo every year...
>
> Uhh, no. Shimano derailleurs shift really well - better than SRAM
> stuff (IMO.) But if they change from high- to low- and back to
> high-normal (or whatever), then folks have to buy new shifters, and
> now new MTB brifters...
>
> Uh, no, again. I don't want to have to change my brake lever and
> shifter just because I broke my RD and they don't have that kind
> anymore. Or disk brake attachment interface. Or BB type/style.
> Better to just skip Shimano altogether.

I know this is not wheel-related, but I thought I might just jump in here
and say that Shimano's dual control levers work with any of their
derailers, new or old. The world isn't such a bad place after all, eh?

The disc brake rotor interface is new and proprietary to their hubs, but you
can use XT rotors bolted on to any hub you want with the new XTR disc
calipers, again with no problems.

The bottom bracket argument isn't much of anything, since bottom brackets
only cost around $30 anyway. Usually you decide what kind of cranks you
want and then buy the bottom bracket to match... by using the new external
bearing setup, they save you the trouble of buying a bottom bracket
separately.

John Morgan
SRAM fan.

 

[Reco Diver]

John Morgan <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<Rkrzc.70745$My6.10055@fed1read05>...
> > It's more about make choices to keep money out of the hands of
> > the hands of the Big S. Sure, it's like spitting in the ocean, but
> > that's OK. I guess if they change their standards every year, pretty
> > soon people will buy a new gruppo every year...
> >
> > Uhh, no. Shimano derailleurs shift really well - better than SRAM
> > stuff (IMO.) But if they change from high- to low- and back to
> > high-normal (or whatever), then folks have to buy new shifters, and
> > now new MTB brifters...
> >
> > Uh, no, again. I don't want to have to change my brake lever and
> > shifter just because I broke my RD and they don't have that kind
> > anymore. Or disk brake attachment interface. Or BB type/style.
> > Better to just skip Shimano altogether.
>
> I know this is not wheel-related, but I thought I might just jump in here
> and say that Shimano's dual control levers work with any of their
> derailers, new or old. The world isn't such a bad place after all, eh?
>
> The disc brake rotor interface is new and proprietary to their hubs,

DT and others have already licensed the center lock rotor/hub
interface. DT is already producing the 240, 240 single speed, and Onyx
in center lock.

R

 

[Jonesy]

John Morgan <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<Rkrzc.70745$My6.10055@fed1read05>...
> > It's more about make choices to keep money out of the hands of
> > the hands of the Big S. Sure, it's like spitting in the ocean, but
> > that's OK. I guess if they change their standards every year, pretty
> > soon people will buy a new gruppo every year...
> >
> > Uhh, no. Shimano derailleurs shift really well - better than SRAM
> > stuff (IMO.) But if they change from high- to low- and back to
> > high-normal (or whatever), then folks have to buy new shifters, and
> > now new MTB brifters...
> >
> > Uh, no, again. I don't want to have to change my brake lever and
> > shifter just because I broke my RD and they don't have that kind
> > anymore. Or disk brake attachment interface. Or BB type/style.
> > Better to just skip Shimano altogether.
>
> I know this is not wheel-related

It *is* related to my comments...

> but I thought I might just jump in here
> and say that Shimano's dual control levers work with any of their
> derailers, new or old.

Right *now* they do. What will it be like in three years, when they
discontinue the DC stuff that works with old bits?

> The world isn't such a bad place after all, eh?

Not right at this second, no.

> The disc brake rotor interface is new and proprietary to their hubs, but you
> can use XT rotors bolted on to any hub you want with the new XTR disc
> calipers, again with no problems.

DT 240 and Onyx hubsets have the Centerlock splines on them. But hey
- here again we have another standard, and who knows if the XT hubs
will retain the ISO mounts. Then I have to buy rotors, too. I think
my Avid rotors will last a while, and I want to retain the ISO
interface. I have no idea how far down the food chain Centerlock will
propagate. LX? Straight Deore? Does anyone know what sort of gear
will be available three years from now, such that if I need to replace
some part, I only have to replace *that one part*?

> The bottom bracket argument isn't much of anything, since bottom brackets
> only cost around $30 anyway.

It's not about merely the BB. So, let's say tomorrow, I bust my XT
crank arm. *Right now*, I can probably find an XT Octalink crankarm
or crankset to replace it. In three years? In five years? I'll bet
that ISIS will still be going strong then. Not only do they have a
new crankset standard, but they have been carrying 3 *other* BB types:
V2 Octalink, V1 Octalink, and square taper. I'm going to pick up 4
extra Octalink BBs (two for each bike) and when they are done, the
cranks will be replaced with some non-Shimano stuff.

BTW, did you see the new Saint gruppo, and how the RD is attached?
Different standard...

> Usually you decide what kind of cranks you
> want and then buy the bottom bracket to match...

Yup, I have Octalink XTs on right now - both bikes. They are nice,
and were relatively inexpensive for their quality. In three years,
how many new Octalink XT cranksets do you think I might be able to
buy?

> by using the new external
> bearing setup, they save you the trouble of buying a bottom bracket
> separately.

As you say, a $30 BB is not an issue. As I was shopping for hubs the
other day, I asked my not-so-LBS about XT ISO disk hubs. One of his
catalogs doesn't even have the M756s any more. Hmmmm. How long
before they stop production on Octalink BBs? (Thus rendering my
expensive XT cranksets useless upon BB failure.)

Shimano is doing it's best to make the old gear obsolete, such that if
you break one thing some time in the future, you'll be obligated to
buy a whole bunch of stuff to replace perfectly fucntional, but
now-obsolete, ancillary gear. I very much object to throwing away
(giving away, selling for some miniscule price) perfectly usable bike
gear. Standard ISO hubs, conventionally-return-sprung RDs, ISIS
BB/cranksets, separate brake and shifter controls. I hope bike
consumers also see what I see, so that they might choose their poison
with open eyes, whether that be poison dished out by the Big S, or
some other poison.

You're an SRAM fan - me too. Decent gear, made of ah, ah - death to
you plastic, but still quite functional. I find the drivetrain to
shift slightly less precisely than Shimano stuff, but if I didn't have
two bikes running the stuff side-by-side, I'm not sure I'd notice.
Still, as long as my current Shimano stuff works, I'll keep using it.
But I'm not buying any more, if I can help it.
--
Jonesy

 

[Jonesy]

[email protected] (JD) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> [email protected] (Jonesy) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> > [email protected] (JD) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> > > [email protected] (Jonesy) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> > > > OK, so now that we know not to buy Mavic rims<snip>
> > >
> > > That's funny.
> >
> > Not really. Remember this?
> >
> > http://tinyurl.com/2vhpg
> >
> > Sure, it was a cheapo X223 wheel, but still...
>
> Just like any cheapo rim from any manufacturer.

They didn't support their product. He has video proof of JRA. That's
my main beef. And the French connection...

> For heavy duty XC, nothing beats the X618.

I am a featherweight in comparison to some Freak who pimps, errr,
rides X618s. I don't need "heavy-duty," but I *do* need something
better than X223s (or whatever the designation is now X139???) I want
it strong and light. Expense is not the concern with the rims. (It
is with the hubs - CK for $400? YeeeOUCH!)


--
Jonesy