time to replace cartridge bearings?

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by Boris Foelsch, Jan 22, 2003.

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  1. My WTB hub cartridge bearings are feeling loose. I didn't realize they were cartridge bearings
    until I couldn't find cones to tighten. They spin smooth and long my LBS recently told me that they
    didn't need to be replaced. I thought it was time just based on abuse and mileage, but they said it
    was up to me and not strictly necessary. A special tool is apparently required to press them in and
    I don't have it.

    Anyway, the looseness is something I'm uncomfortable with since I'm used to cone type bearings.

    Is there any harm in just running these until they don't run smoothly?

    Can they be tightened without replacing them?

    The normally helpful www.parktool.com has nothing on cartridge bearings.

    Thanks, -Boris

    [email protected]
     
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  2. Ned Mantei

    Ned Mantei Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Boris
    Foelsch) wrote:

    >My WTB hub cartridge bearings are feeling loose.
    ...snip....
    >
    >Is there any harm in just running these until they don't run smoothly?
    >
    >Can they be tightened without replacing them?
    >

    In 1997 I bought a bicycle with Sachs Quartz (or Quarz?) hubs. The front wheel was loose from the
    start, with noticeable play. The generally very competent LBS said this was normal for cartridge
    bearing hubs, and that eliminating play would put lateral force on the bearings for which they
    weren't designed. Six years and maybe 18,000 service-free km later the front wheel still works fine,
    if anything spinning more freely than at the beginning. (The back wheel was a disappointment: The
    right and left halves of the freehub decided to part company, and it seemed that they were just a
    press fit rather than held together with a hollow bolt as are the Shimano hubs.)

    --
    Ned Mantei Department of Cell Biology, Swiss Federal Institute of Technology CH-8093 Zurich,
    Switzerland
     
  3. Almost Fast

    Almost Fast Guest

    It's true that almost all sealed bearing hubs are better off with a touch of play. Bearings that
    are too tight have no play. If you have no play, how do you know if your bearings are too tight?
    You don't!

    Phil Wood, Bullseye, Specialized, Zipp Ballistic, TNT (some of these are 1980's hubs), and now
    Velomax, Mavic, Cane Creek ... all are better off with a trace of play. That way you can be sure the
    bearing isn't overloaded.

    "kapers" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > Hiya, If anyone has an old Catalogue from Bullseye Industries with the article innit by Roger
    > Durham about Cartridge bearings and their "need" for play could they please post it. I'll look for
    > a copy in my "files" but if one turns up here beforehand that would be great. Very informative and
    > a good read. Be Well. Keith.
    >
    > *------------------------------------------------*
    > * *
    > * "The knack lies in learning to throw yourself *
    > * -at the ground and miss" *
    > * D. Adams. *
    > * * *----------------------
    > -------------------------
    > ---*
    >
    > "Ned Mantei" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Boris
    > > Foelsch) wrote:
    > >
    > > >My WTB hub cartridge bearings are feeling loose.
    > ...snip....
    > > >
    > > >Is there any harm in just running these until they don't run smoothly?
    > > >
    > > >Can they be tightened without replacing them?
    > > >
    > >
    > > In 1997 I bought a bicycle with Sachs Quartz (or Quarz?) hubs. The front wheel was loose from
    > > the start, with noticeable play. The generally very competent LBS said this was normal for
    > > cartridge bearing hubs, and that eliminating play would put lateral force on the bearings for
    > > which they weren't designed. Six years and maybe 18,000 service-free km later the front wheel
    > > still works fine, if anything spinning more freely than at the beginning. (The back wheel was a
    > > disappointment: The right and left halves of the freehub decided to part company, and it seemed
    > > that they were just a press fit rather than held together with a hollow bolt as are the Shimano
    > > hubs.)
    > >
    > > --
    > > Ned Mantei Department of Cell Biology, Swiss Federal Institute of Technology CH-8093 Zurich,
    > > Switzerland
     
  4. David Kunz

    David Kunz Guest

    I've always read that you want to have no play and you tell it they're too tight by spinning them --
    they should spin freely and have no play.

    David

    almost fast wrote:
    > It's true that almost all sealed bearing hubs are better off with a touch of play. Bearings that
    > are too tight have no play. If you have no play, how do you know if your bearings are too tight?
    > You don't!
    >
    > Phil Wood, Bullseye, Specialized, Zipp Ballistic, TNT (some of these are 1980's hubs), and now
    > Velomax, Mavic, Cane Creek ... all are better off with a trace of play. That way you can be sure
    > the bearing isn't overloaded.
    >
    > "kapers" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:<[email protected]>...
    >
    >>Hiya, If anyone has an old Catalogue from Bullseye Industries with the article innit by Roger
    >>Durham about Cartridge bearings and their "need" for play could they please post it. I'll look for
    >>a copy in my "files" but if one turns up here beforehand that would be great. Very informative and
    >>a good read. Be Well. Keith.
    >>
    >>*------------------------------------------------*
    >>* *
    >>* "The knack lies in learning to throw yourself *
    >>* -at the ground and miss" *
    >>* D. Adams. *
    >>* * *----------------------
    >> -------------------------
    >> ---*
    >>
    >>"Ned Mantei" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >>news:[email protected]...
    >>
    >>>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Boris
    >>>Foelsch) wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>My WTB hub cartridge bearings are feeling loose.
    >>
    >> ...snip....
    >>
    >>>>Is there any harm in just running these until they don't run smoothly?
    >>>>
    >>>>Can they be tightened without replacing them?
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>>In 1997 I bought a bicycle with Sachs Quartz (or Quarz?) hubs. The front wheel was loose from
    >>>the start, with noticeable play. The generally very competent LBS said this was normal for
    >>>cartridge bearing hubs, and that eliminating play would put lateral force on the bearings for
    >>>which they weren't designed. Six years and maybe 18,000 service-free km later the front wheel
    >>>still works fine, if anything spinning more freely than at the beginning. (The back wheel was
    >>>a disappointment: The right and left halves of the freehub decided to part company, and it
    >>>seemed that they were just a press fit rather than held together with a hollow bolt as are the
    >>>Shimano hubs.)
    >>>
    >>>--
    >>>Ned Mantei Department of Cell Biology, Swiss Federal Institute of Technology CH-8093 Zurich,
    >>>Switzerland
     
  5. A Muzi

    A Muzi Guest

    "Boris Foelsch" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > My WTB hub cartridge bearings are feeling loose. I didn't realize they were cartridge bearings
    > until I couldn't find cones to tighten. They spin smooth and long my LBS recently told me that
    > they didn't need to be replaced. I thought it was time just based on abuse and mileage, but they
    > said it was up to me and not strictly necessary. A special tool is apparently required to press
    > them in and I don't have it.
    >
    > Anyway, the looseness is something I'm uncomfortable with since I'm used to cone type bearings.
    >
    > Is there any harm in just running these until they don't run smoothly?
    >
    > Can they be tightened without replacing them?
    >
    > The normally helpful www.parktool.com has nothing on cartridge bearings.

    Yes those series of bearings should be readliy available at any competent LBS or your local bearing
    supply. Prices ( and quality) range from $3 to $15 each.

    The size is on the seal - something like 6002, 6003, etc, followed by letters denoting the shield
    type. You do not necessarily need both sides shielded since there's no water coming at it from
    the inside!

    This type of bearing is normally delivered with oil - enough to keep the balls from rusting and no
    more. Lift the outer shield carfully with a jeweler's screwdriver or a pick and fill the space with
    a good bearing grease. Any of a wide range of products will be fine ( our preference is Lubriplate
    130AA) but do add some grease before installation. Reseat the seal carrefully so as not to crimp it.

    Some amount of sideplay is normal and in fact inherent to this type of bearing. It can be minimized
    but not eliminated.

    Installation tools can be easily fabricated from a large bolt and spacers. Ensure you press on the
    outer case and arrange things so you do not press _across_ the bearing ( for example pushing on the
    inner case to mount the outside in a snug bore)

    Running the bearing until it is dead won't hurt anything. Even a very rough/worn bearing is of
    minimal import to the overall efficiency of a bicycle. And a worn/damaged cartridge bearing doesn't
    affect anything else so you needn't hurry .
    --
    Andrew Muzi http://www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April 1971
     
  6. Kapers

    Kapers Guest

    Hiya, If anyone has an old Catalogue from Bullseye Industries with the article innit by Roger Durham
    about Cartridge bearings and their "need" for play could they please post it. I'll look for a copy
    in my "files" but if one turns up here beforehand that would be great. Very informative and a good
    read. Be Well. Keith.

    *------------------------------------------------*
    * *
    * "The knack lies in learning to throw yourself *
    * -at the ground and miss" *
    * D. Adams. *
    * * *------------------------
    -------------------------*

    "Ned Mantei" <[email protected]hz.ch> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Boris
    > Foelsch) wrote:
    >
    > >My WTB hub cartridge bearings are feeling loose.
    > ...snip....
    > >
    > >Is there any harm in just running these until they don't run smoothly?
    > >
    > >Can they be tightened without replacing them?
    > >
    >
    > In 1997 I bought a bicycle with Sachs Quartz (or Quarz?) hubs. The front wheel was loose from
    > the start, with noticeable play. The generally very competent LBS said this was normal for
    > cartridge bearing hubs, and that eliminating play would put lateral force on the bearings for
    > which they weren't designed. Six years and maybe 18,000 service-free km later the front wheel
    > still works fine, if anything spinning more freely than at the beginning. (The back wheel was
    > a disappointment: The right and left halves of the freehub decided to part company, and it
    > seemed that they were just a press fit rather than held together with a hollow bolt as are the
    > Shimano hubs.)
    >
    > --
    > Ned Mantei Department of Cell Biology, Swiss Federal Institute of Technology CH-8093 Zurich,
    > Switzerland
     
  7. Almost Fast

    Almost Fast Guest

    Yes, "freely" is how you want bearings to spin. And there is sometimes a "perfect" adjustment, with
    no play and near-zero preload (say, less than about 5 pounds, depending on the size of the bearing
    and other factors like degree of misalignment).

    But slightly overload the bearings (for example, when the skewer tightens), and they still spin
    "freely" ... for a little while! ;-)

    When there is a trace of play, then you *know* it's not overloaded.

    David Kunz <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > I've always read that you want to have no play and you tell it they're too tight by spinning them
    > -- they should spin freely and have no play.
    >
    > David
    >
    > almost fast wrote:
    > > It's true that almost all sealed bearing hubs are better off with a touch of play. Bearings that
    > > are too tight have no play. If you have no play, how do you know if your bearings are too tight?
    > > You don't!
    > >
    > > Phil Wood, Bullseye, Specialized, Zipp Ballistic, TNT (some of these are 1980's hubs), and now
    > > Velomax, Mavic, Cane Creek ... all are better off with a trace of play. That way you can be sure
    > > the bearing isn't overloaded.
     
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