Time Trial Special



Iron Man

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Sep 19, 2005
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hey all,

i have been roped into a 40K time trial and it's only 10 weeks away :eek: i have a back ground in triathlon, but have never done a specifiic time trial

i was wondering if you guys had any workouts you could share to help whip me into shape in about 10 weeks, i can usually do 40K in 53mins but thats after a swim and saving some gas for the run!

it's on a flat section of open highway (only 2 semi-hills) and only 1 turn at the 20k mark to turn round and come back.

thanks and best
Iron Man
 
Iron Man said:
hey all,

i have been roped into a 40K time trial and it's only 10 weeks away :eek: i have a back ground in triathlon, but have never done a specifiic time trial

i was wondering if you guys had any workouts you could share to help whip me into shape in about 10 weeks, i can usually do 40K in 53mins but thats after a swim and saving some gas for the run!

it's on a flat section of open highway (only 2 semi-hills) and only 1 turn at the 20k mark to turn round and come back.

thanks and best
Iron Man
If you can really do a 40k in 53 minutes during a tri, you don't need any help!
 
Do you ride with a PM? What are the prevailing winds at that time of year? How much climbing? What's your FT?
 
Iron Man said:
i can usually do 40K in 53mins but thats after a swim and saving some gas for the run!
Sheesh! Make sure you take a swim before the ride so you don't embarass all the hard-core cyclists. :)
 
RapDaddyo said:
Do you ride with a PM? What are the prevailing winds at that time of year? How much climbing? What's your FT?
No PM just cadence and speed. hardly any wind and if so only gusts and as for climbing the course desciption relays it has only two rises on the run up and over some bridges.
 
Just to put that into perspectives, for those who don't know triathlon.

If you do 53 in a tri, given that you did 20 on the swim, and lets say 37 on the run, that makes roughly 1hr50 on a short distance. You are an elite. On certain (more difficult) coarses, that may put you top25 pro. Elites are allowed to draft, during olympic distances. Did you also race half IM (90k TT)?

Time trialing is pretty different in that it allows for a much better contentration level. You are not distracted by the swim (and T1), and you don't have to save anything for the run. 10 weeks should be enough for you to do well. Just get that threshold power back. You may want to block it, but I don't thinks it is gonna be necessary, given you athletic background. 10 weeks is enough.

If you have changes to make to the hardware, do it now of course, don't wait.

If you are aware of the conditions (hills and such), that should have an impact on your training schedule.

What did you have in mind (as a training schedule)?
 
Assuming this was on a loop course, you're one of the best pro's in the nation, despite a swim. Many state and regional TT championships are won with slower times. These are the top 10 OLYMPIC TRIATHLON times for the 40k bike:

Official ResultsVouliagmeni Olympic Centre - THU 26 AUG 2004RankStart No.NameNOCSwim (1.5km)Transition 1+
Bike (40km)Transition 2+
Run (10km)Total TimeTime DifferenceTimeRankTimeRankTimeRank128CARTER Hamish[url="http://www.athens2004.com/images/results/NZL.gif"]http://www.athens2004.com/images/results/NZL.gif NZL[/url]18:19.0033 1:00:44.00 1 32:04.0041:51:07.73227DOCHERTY Bevan[url="http://www.athens2004.com/images/results/NZL.gif"]http://www.athens2004.com/images/results/NZL.gif NZL[/url]18:13.0017 1:00:51.00 432:11.0051:51:15.607.87348RIEDERER Sven[url="http://www.athens2004.com/images/results/SUI.gif"]http://www.athens2004.com/images/results/SUI.gif SUI[/url]18:17.0025 1:00:45.00 2 32:31.0071:51:33.2625.53424BENNETT Greg[url="http://www.athens2004.com/images/results/AUS.gif"]http://www.athens2004.com/images/results/AUS.gif AUS[/url]18:19.0029 1:01:29.00 =731:53.0021:51:41.5833.85550BELAUBRE Frederic[url="http://www.athens2004.com/images/results/FRA.gif"]http://www.athens2004.com/images/results/FRA.gif FRA[/url]18:04.007 1:00:58.00 632:58.00121:52:00.5352.80615RAELERT Andreas[url="http://www.athens2004.com/images/results/GER.gif"]http://www.athens2004.com/images/results/GER.gif GER[/url]18:07.0012 1:01:40.00 =10 32:48.0091:52:35.621:27.8976HENNING Rasmus[url="http://www.athens2004.com/images/results/DEN.gif"]http://www.athens2004.com/images/results/DEN.gif DEN[/url]18:19.0028 1:01:29.00 =7 32:49.00101:52:37.321:29.59846MARCEAU Olivier[url="http://www.athens2004.com/images/results/SUI.gif"]http://www.athens2004.com/images/results/SUI.gif SUI[/url]18:18.0026
1:00:46.00 3 33:40.00191:52:44.361:36.6398KEMPER Hunter[url="http://www.athens2004.com/images/results/USA.gif"]http://www.athens2004.com/images/results/USA.gif USA[/url]18:11.0016 1:02:43.00 21 31:52.0011:52:46.331:38.601026THOMPSON Simon[url="http://www.athens2004.com/images/results/AUS.gif"]http://www.athens2004.com/images/results/AUS.gif AUS[/url]18:19.0031 1:02:34.00 16 31:54.0031:52:47.181:39.45

So either they're taking 7 minutes to run to the changing area, put cycling shoes and a helmet on, and get going, or your time was slightly off. Methinks its the latter.
 
Iron Man said:
No PM just cadence and speed. hardly any wind and if so only gusts and as for climbing the course desciption relays it has only two rises on the run up and over some bridges.
Well, the good news is that the course is optimal for power management without a PM. Optimal performance in a TT is about three parts: FT, aerodynamics and power management. I think one has to be incredible at power management to manage power optimally on a course with many grade and wind changes. But, on a flat course with no wind it's about riding at a constant power as close as possible to FT. You should be able to do that with feel and a speedometer. Anyway, it sounds as though your FT is high enough that you could do a lousy job of power management and still get gold. The best way to win the gunfight at the OK Corral is to bring a Gatling gun.
 
Careful Las Montanas, I estimated his swim and run splits.

Take this guy for instance, Sindballe. He pulled the best bike split this year, in Kona (Ironman Hawaii) : 180 TT (no drafting), in a time of 4:21 (for an awsome avg speed of 41.3 kmh). But he ran the marathon like my Grand Mother (3:50)

But I admit, 53 in a triathlon, is unusually fast.
St. Anthony, for instance, is a fast coarse. The bike splits are relatively slow, but that's normal. Allowing these guys to ride in packs, turned a "traditional" time trial event, into a 1hr transition. That is a shame !

St. Anthony's Triathlon/ITU Points Race
April 29, St. Petersburg, Florida, USA
1.5k S, 40k B, 10k R

Men

1. Ryan Bolton (USA) 1:46:12 17:34 56:50 30:54
2. Gilberto Gonzalez (VEN) 1:46:36 17:17 57:09 31:20
3. Rasmus Henning (DEN) 1:46:50 17:08 57:18 31:36
4. Jamie Cleveland (CAN) 1:46:56 17:56 55:16 32:53
5. Marc Lees (AUS) 1:47:09 17:31 56:53 31:54
6. Csaba Kuttor (HUN) 1:47:14 17:16 57:07 31:54
7. Oscar Galindez (ARG) 1:47:17 17:55 56:30 31:55
8. Cameron Brown (USA) 1:47:28 17:58 55:15 33:23
9. Peter Clode (NZL) 1:47:37 17:59 55:15 33:31
10. Alec Rukosuev (USA) 1:47:51 17:14 57:10 32:35
11. Brent Foster (NZL) 1:47:56 17:06 57:25 32:36
12. Andy Kelsey (USA) 1:48:03 17:15 57:14 32:42
13. Trent Chapman (AUS) 1:48:38 17:10 57:20 33:24
14. Marc Jenkins (GBR) 1:48:44 17:13 57:16 33:27
15. Nick Radkewich (USA) 1:48:46 17:29 56:54 33:26
16. Doug Friman (USA) 1:49:02 17:20 57:05 33:43
17. Victor Plata (USA) 1:49:09 17:27 58:16 32:36
18. Sebastien LaFlamme (CAN) 1:49:36 17:50 56:39 34:25
19. Richard Stannard (GBR) 1:50:06 17:06 57:14 34:48
20. Camilo Gonzalez (VEN) 1:50:16 18:51 57:14 33:18
21. Jose Rodriguez (CRC) 1:50:21
22. Jimmy Riccitello (USA) 1:50:38
23. Leandro Macedo (BRA) 1:50:47
24. Kevin Carter (USA) 1:50:53
25. Abe Rogers (USA) 1:51:23
 
Iron Man said:
hey all,

i have been roped into a 40K time trial and it's only 10 weeks away :eek: i have a back ground in triathlon, but have never done a specifiic time trial

i was wondering if you guys had any workouts you could share to help whip me into shape in about 10 weeks, i can usually do 40K in 53mins but thats after a swim and saving some gas for the run!

it's on a flat section of open highway (only 2 semi-hills) and only 1 turn at the 20k mark to turn round and come back.

thanks and best
Iron Man

The new Lance Armstrong has just been discovered. You should contact CTS immediately, the 06 TDF team has not yet been finalized.
 
Iron Man said:
hey all,

i have been roped into a 40K time trial and it's only 10 weeks away :eek: i have a back ground in triathlon, but have never done a specifiic time trial

i was wondering if you guys had any workouts you could share to help whip me into shape in about 10 weeks, i can usually do 40K in 53mins but thats after a swim and saving some gas for the run!

it's on a flat section of open highway (only 2 semi-hills) and only 1 turn at the 20k mark to turn round and come back.

thanks and best
Iron Man
Aside from debating about the accuracy of your time, I would say that your primary goal is to raise your ft. A "core" session for most is 2-3x20 at ft (or race pace, for a 40k)
 
SolarEnergy said:
Sindballe... pulled the best bike split this year, in Kona... But he ran the marathon like my Grand Mother (3:50)
LOL!!:p Wow! Your grandmother is pretty fast!

I realize you meant in comparison to the other pros like Cameron Brown or Chris McCormack but if I run a 3:50 marathon in Placid this year, I'll be very happy!
 
SolarEnergy said:
Careful Las Montanas, I estimated his swim and run splits.
Thank you, i actually can run ok but cant swim very well, i am usually in the bottom 2 or 3 for my age group. During the race i pulled the 53.
it was a 1, 40, 8 (Swim Bike Run) last year my splits were 27.12, 53.22, 40
the age group winner was 16,49, 29.22.

now can we put the times aside and can some one share some time trial work outs with me:mad:
 
Iron Man said:
Thank you, i actually can run ok but cant swim very well, i am usually in the bottom 2 or 3 for my age group. During the race i pulled the 53.
it was a 1, 40, 8 (Swim Bike Run) last year my splits were 27.12, 53.22, 40
the age group winner was 16,49, 29.22.

now can we put the times aside and can some one share some time trial work outs with me:mad:
Don't sweat it. That's the standard reaction when you post impressive #s. The search function is disabled now, but when it's working again look for a post by haribodie last July asking for advice on the Mt Tam TT. He posted his #s (also very impressive), got teased by skeptics, then proceeded to demolish the field and win the Pro 1/2 race.

I agree with whoawhoa that it's about getting your FT up as high as possible with the classic L4 intervals. Not very complicated. Due to the lack of wind and hills, there's no need to work on high power for short durations. Your best pacing strategy is going to be constant power. Be sure to post your results and silence the non-believers.
 
Iron Man said:
Thank you, i actually can run ok but cant swim very well, i am usually in the bottom 2 or 3 for my age group. During the race i pulled the 53.
it was a 1, 40, 8 (Swim Bike Run) last year my splits were 27.12, 53.22, 40
the age group winner was 16,49, 29.22.

now can we put the times aside and can some one share some time trial work outs with me:mad:
Well, I know you asked to leave out the times...but something is up. Was the course one-way with a tailwind? Or could it have perhaps been short? 49 minutes is nearing world class for a normal 40k course, even without swimming and running.

But anyway. As I said above, long efforts at ft/40k race pace are your best option. Some higher intensity v02max intervals such as 5-6x5's with 2.5-5 minutes of recovery are a good idea as well.
 
whoawhoa said:
Well, I know you asked to leave out the times...but something is up. Was the course one-way with a tailwind? Or could it have perhaps been short? 49 minutes is nearing world class for a normal 40k course, even without swimming and running.

But anyway. As I said above, long efforts at ft/40k race pace are your best option. Some higher intensity v02max intervals such as 5-6x5's with 2.5-5 minutes of recovery are a good idea as well.
Don't worry guys. Some bike course are actually longer than the official distance, some others are little shorter.

Remember those threads where newbies try to compare average speeds? When most experimented members are shouting "That doesn't mean much?". Same thing with triathlon splits.

In this case you are probably right Whoawhoa. The "age grouper" that got gold, got it with a 49min bike split. So there must be something wrong with the distance.

Iron Man seems to be givin up on triathlon as a result of his inability to swim properly.

I don't know if your time of 27 for one single k was a typo mistake, but it should be 17, and even then, that would be slow. Don't give up, learning how to swim is actually pretty relaxing. If you need some help, just send me a private message, I'll give you good hints.

Now back to the main topic, as I said, that won't be very difficult to get those legs back. Just pull out your old bike sessions, from your plan.

My guess is that, learning how to pace should play a big role in the next 10 weeks. Sure long intervals work well for raising your threshold power, but pacing a 40k, all in aero position, involves more than that. You may want to do one or two TT per week. If you are not happy with the progression, at least you will soon be aware.

You could go with something like
week 1 : 1 TT (1 @ 60min)
week 2 : 2 TT (1 @ 30min, 1 @ 120min or more)
week 3 : 1 TT (1 @ 75min) * optionally, you can even do a second one.
week 4 : No TT

Repeat the above twice, then take a 2 week taper.
You could also do (duration - 15min) for the first month, then full duration for the second month. But I prefer both months to be identical in TT duration, ideally on the same course, to monitor the improvement.

Those TT aren't necessary done at what your race pace will be. But they should be challanging "against the clock" exercice. Monitor avg speed. Make the second half hard, sustain and increase the effort. Do these rides alone if possible.

Rest of the time spent doing lighter tempo of longer duration, and intervals... and recovery.
 
SolarEnergy said:
Iron Man seems to be givin up on triathlon as a result of his inability to swim properly.
I feel bad about what I wrote here. What a way to welcome a new member. I hope I didn't offend you, that was definitely not the purpose. :)

I was just a bit shocked by the enormous difference between your 40k bike split, and your 1k swim. And a bit worried that you were givin up on triathlon as a result of this. But I may (and hope) as well be wrong.

Spend time reading some threads here, most questions you may be wandering, are probably already covered. You'll find "state of the art", extra valuable info and tips. I lean a lot on this site.

Looking forward to chat with you.
 
SolarEnergy said:
Iron Man seems to be givin up on triathlon as a result of his inability to swim properly.
Frankly, that's what's kept me from ever wanting to *take up* triathalons. :)
 
frenchyge said:
Frankly, that's what's kept me from ever wanting to *take up* triathalons. :)
Most of us learn to "put up" with the swim just so we can get to the fun parts. :)

I've got a few months to see if I can shave a minute or two of my whopping 41 minute swim at Wildflower (Half Ironman) and improve my bike split at the same time...

Berend
 
SolarEnergy said:
I feel bad about what I wrote here. What a way to welcome a new member. I hope I didn't offend you, that was definitely not the purpose. :)
I was just a bit shocked by the enormous difference between your 40k bike split, and your 1k swim. And a bit worried that you were givin up on triathlon as a result of this. But I may (and hope) as well be wrong.
Spend time reading some threads here, most questions you may be wandering, are probably already covered. You'll find "state of the art", extra valuable info and tips. I lean a lot on this site.
Looking forward to chat with you.
no i am quite used to people paying out my swimming! thanks for all the help with the workout's, ive got some CTS and spinervals DVD's and have been on the road a bit too. i have scrapped the time trial in place of an olympic dist tri a few weeks later in QLD, and im aming for 55-60 min split on the bike, and to RapDaddyo im bringing the Gatling gun! Wish me luck i'll let you know the result
 

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