Tips for a stubborn cassette removal?



D

Duncan Smith

Guest
Another D.I.Y. stumbling block... I'm trying to change the 9 speed
Shimano Cassette on my MTB. Wheel is off and QR is out. BBB removal
tool has its centre guide located in the QR spindle and the tools
teeth are all nicely engaged in the lock-ring's splines. The Big Blue
Park Tool Chain Whip is holding the cogs in the clockwise direction
and there's over 14st of body mass pumping down on the tools while my
feet are in the air... (applying a counter-clockwise rotational force
to the lock-ring)

....Nothing, not even a creak or a click to be heard (could have sworn
it was laughing at me at some point though)

What's next?

Bike Shop :-( ?
Large Copper pipes to slide over the tool ends for excessive leverage?
Give up the BBB tool and get one without a handle, instead using the
biggest wrench/spanner I can find?

Much appreciated,

Duncan
 
On Oct 11, 8:45 pm, Duncan Smith <[email protected]> wrote:
> Another D.I.Y. stumbling block... I'm trying to change the 9 speed
> Shimano Cassette on my MTB. Wheel is off and QR is out. BBB removal
> tool has its centre guide located in the QR spindle and the tools
> teeth are all nicely engaged in the lock-ring's splines. The Big Blue
> Park Tool Chain Whip is holding the cogs in the clockwise direction
> and there's over 14st of body mass pumping down on the tools while my
> feet are in the air... (applying a counter-clockwise rotational force
> to the lock-ring)
>
> ...Nothing, not even a creak or a click to be heard (could have sworn
> it was laughing at me at some point though)
>
> What's next?
>
> Bike Shop :-( ?
> Large Copper pipes to slide over the tool ends for excessive leverage?
> Give up the BBB tool and get one without a handle, instead using the
> biggest wrench/spanner I can find?
>
> Much appreciated,
>
> Duncan


It's all right - got the b*st.. in the end...
 
Duncan Smith wrote:
> On Oct 11, 8:45 pm, Duncan Smith <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Another D.I.Y. stumbling block... I'm trying to change the 9 speed
>> Shimano Cassette on my MTB. Wheel is off and QR is out. BBB removal
>> tool has its centre guide located in the QR spindle and the tools
>> teeth are all nicely engaged in the lock-ring's splines. The Big Blue
>> Park Tool Chain Whip is holding the cogs in the clockwise direction
>> and there's over 14st of body mass pumping down on the tools while my
>> feet are in the air... (applying a counter-clockwise rotational force
>> to the lock-ring)
>>
>> ...Nothing, not even a creak or a click to be heard (could have sworn
>> it was laughing at me at some point though)
>>
>> What's next?
>>
>> Bike Shop :-( ?
>> Large Copper pipes to slide over the tool ends for excessive leverage?
>> Give up the BBB tool and get one without a handle, instead using the
>> biggest wrench/spanner I can find?
>>
>> Much appreciated,
>>
>> Duncan

>
> It's all right - got the b*st.. in the end...
>


:) Good good. Shock is my usual free-er of things that dont budge and
arent likely to shear. I have, however, trashed a cassette tool by using
shock.
 
On Thu, 11 Oct, Duncan Smith <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> It's all right - got the b*st.. in the end...


Noted

But if you hadn't, a short (say, 2m) length of scaffold tube is
a handy thing to have around the place, should the opportunity to
acquire such a thing arise. Much more sensible than copper pipe for
this application (and some others too).

However, when unscrewing lockrings from cassettes, an alternative to
trying to hold the wheel with one hand and heaving on tools with the
other is to clamp the removal tool in a bench vice securely fixed down
to a bench itself either piled high with weighty junk or bolted down
to the floor. Then, fit the wheel over the tool, engage the splines,
and you now have two hands free to heave on opposite sides of the
wheel simultaneously - much easier, and much more leverage.

regards, Ian SMith
--
|\ /| no .sig
|o o|
|/ \|
 
On 11/10/2007 21:58, Ian Smith said,

> However, when unscrewing lockrings from cassettes, an alternative to
> trying to hold the wheel with one hand and heaving on tools with the
> other is to clamp the removal tool in a bench vice securely fixed down
> to a bench itself either piled high with weighty junk or bolted down
> to the floor. Then, fit the wheel over the tool, engage the splines,
> and you now have two hands free to heave on opposite sides of the
> wheel simultaneously - much easier, and much more leverage.


I know it's late, but isn't that going to just spin the wheel on the
freewheel? Or have I missed something?

--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/
 
On Thu, 11 Oct 2007, Paul Boyd <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 11/10/2007 21:58, Ian Smith said,
>
> > However, when unscrewing lockrings from cassettes, an alternative to
> > trying to hold the wheel with one hand and heaving on tools with the
> > other is to clamp the removal tool in a bench vice securely fixed down
> > to a bench itself either piled high with weighty junk or bolted down
> > to the floor. Then, fit the wheel over the tool, engage the splines,
> > and you now have two hands free to heave on opposite sides of the
> > wheel simultaneously - much easier, and much more leverage.

>
> I know it's late, but isn't that going to just spin the wheel on the
> freewheel? Or have I missed something?


Umm, I think you're right, but I'm equally sure I've shifted something
from a wheel this way in the past, and can't imagine what else it
would be. Presumably I fixed a chain-whip in the system somewhere -
presumably to the spokes of the wheel then turned it.

Probably it's just been a long day....

(But I distinctly remember freeing up something using that approach,
and it can't have been much else. Honest. And I don't think it's
the sort of thing I'd dream.)

regards, Ian SMith
--
|\ /| no .sig
|o o|
|/ \|
 
On 2007-10-11, Ian Smith <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Thu, 11 Oct 2007, Paul Boyd <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On 11/10/2007 21:58, Ian Smith said,
>>
>> > However, when unscrewing lockrings from cassettes, an alternative to
>> > trying to hold the wheel with one hand and heaving on tools with the
>> > other is to clamp the removal tool in a bench vice securely fixed down
>> > to a bench itself either piled high with weighty junk or bolted down
>> > to the floor. Then, fit the wheel over the tool, engage the splines,
>> > and you now have two hands free to heave on opposite sides of the
>> > wheel simultaneously - much easier, and much more leverage.

>>
>> I know it's late, but isn't that going to just spin the wheel on the
>> freewheel? Or have I missed something?

>
> Umm, I think you're right, but I'm equally sure I've shifted something
> from a wheel this way in the past, and can't imagine what else it
> would be. Presumably I fixed a chain-whip in the system somewhere -
> presumably to the spokes of the wheel then turned it.
>
> Probably it's just been a long day....
>
> (But I distinctly remember freeing up something using that approach,
> and it can't have been much else. Honest. And I don't think it's
> the sort of thing I'd dream.)


I think in the distant past that would have worked. I don't think you
needed a chain-whip back in those days-- the freewheeling bit was part
of the cassette, not of what we now call the "freehub", and the splined
tool went right inside it. So you just had to turn it anti-clockwise
which you could do using the method you describe.

But I might have got that wrong too...
 
Quoting Duncan Smith <[email protected]>:
>Another D.I.Y. stumbling block... I'm trying to change the 9 speed
>Shimano Cassette on my MTB. Wheel is off and QR is out.


Hypercracker or similar tool, if you trust your frame?
--
David Damerell <[email protected]> flcl?
Today is First Teleute, October.
 
David Damerell wrote:
> Quoting Duncan Smith <[email protected]>:
>> Another D.I.Y. stumbling block... I'm trying to change the 9 speed
>> Shimano Cassette on my MTB. Wheel is off and QR is out.

>
> Hypercracker or similar tool, if you trust your frame?


you're joking. Before taking a Hypercracker or similar on tour I would
advise to check with conventional tools that the lockring wasn't
tightened -as was here the case- to 1 GF (m) *) but to 30 Nm max



*) Gorilla force (mad)

--
/Marten

info(apestaartje)m-gineering(punt)nl
 
Ben C wrote:
> On 2007-10-11, Ian Smith <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On Thu, 11 Oct 2007, Paul Boyd <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> On 11/10/2007 21:58, Ian Smith said,
>>>
>>>> However, when unscrewing lockrings from cassettes, an alternative
>>>> to trying to hold the wheel with one hand and heaving on tools
>>>> with the other is to clamp the removal tool in a bench vice
>>>> securely fixed down to a bench itself either piled high with
>>>> weighty junk or bolted down to the floor. Then, fit the wheel
>>>> over the tool, engage the splines, and you now have two hands free
>>>> to heave on opposite sides of the wheel simultaneously - much
>>>> easier, and much more leverage.
>>>
>>> I know it's late, but isn't that going to just spin the wheel on
>>> the freewheel? Or have I missed something?

>>
>> Umm, I think you're right, but I'm equally sure I've shifted
>> something from a wheel this way in the past, and can't imagine what
>> else it would be. Presumably I fixed a chain-whip in the system
>> somewhere - presumably to the spokes of the wheel then turned it.
>>
>> Probably it's just been a long day....
>>
>> (But I distinctly remember freeing up something using that approach,
>> and it can't have been much else. Honest. And I don't think it's
>> the sort of thing I'd dream.)

>
> I think in the distant past that would have worked. I don't think you
> needed a chain-whip back in those days-- the freewheeling bit was part
> of the cassette, not of what we now call the "freehub", and the
> splined tool went right inside it. So you just had to turn it
> anti-clockwise which you could do using the method you describe.
>
> But I might have got that wrong too...


No, you got it right. They were known simply as "freewheels" and right
barstewards to get off because pedalling tightened them up.

~PB
 
Ian Smith wrote:
an alternative to
> trying to hold the wheel with one hand and heaving on tools with the
> other is to clamp the removal tool in a bench vice securely fixed down
> to a bench itself either piled high with weighty junk or bolted down
> to the floor. Then, fit the wheel over the tool, engage the splines,
> and you now have two hands free to heave on opposite sides of the
> wheel simultaneously - much easier, and much more leverage.
>


you're too old, that is the procedure for stuck freewheels ;). But you
can modify the procedure for removing stubborn cassettelockrings by
using two chainwhips
--
/Marten

info(apestaartje)m-gineering(punt)nl
 
On 11 Oct, 23:03, David Damerell <[email protected]>
wrote:
> Quoting Duncan Smith <[email protected]>:
>
> >Another D.I.Y. stumbling block... I'm trying to change the 9 speed
> >Shimano Cassette on my MTB. Wheel is off and QR is out.

>
> Hypercracker or similar tool, if you trust your frame?
> --
> David Damerell <[email protected]> flcl?
> Today is First Teleute, October.


Mine lasted about 90 seconds after I fitted it to the wheel according
to the instructions and turned the wheel the wrong way in defiance of
the instructions. Stripped the splines off and left them in the
cassette. Imagine how I laughed.
I went the chain whip route in the end, though that's a bit more
difficult to take on tour.
 
On 11 Oct, 23:24, "Pete Biggs"
<[email protected]> wrote:
> Ben C wrote:
> > On 2007-10-11, Ian Smith <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> On Thu, 11 Oct 2007, Paul Boyd <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>> On 11/10/2007 21:58, Ian Smith said,

>
> >>>> However, when unscrewing lockrings from cassettes, an alternative
> >>>> to trying to hold the wheel with one hand and heaving on tools
> >>>> with the other is to clamp the removal tool in a bench vice
> >>>> securely fixed down to a bench itself either piled high with
> >>>> weighty junk or bolted down to the floor. Then, fit the wheel
> >>>> over the tool, engage the splines, and you now have two hands free
> >>>> to heave on opposite sides of the wheel simultaneously - much
> >>>> easier, and much more leverage.

>
> >>> I know it's late, but isn't that going to just spin the wheel on
> >>> the freewheel? Or have I missed something?

>
> >> Umm, I think you're right, but I'm equally sure I've shifted
> >> something from a wheel this way in the past, and can't imagine what
> >> else it would be. Presumably I fixed a chain-whip in the system
> >> somewhere - presumably to the spokes of the wheel then turned it.

>
> >> Probably it's just been a long day....

>
> >> (But I distinctly remember freeing up something using that approach,
> >> and it can't have been much else. Honest. And I don't think it's
> >> the sort of thing I'd dream.)

>
> > I think in the distant past that would have worked. I don't think you
> > needed a chain-whip back in those days-- the freewheeling bit was part
> > of the cassette, not of what we now call the "freehub", and the
> > splined tool went right inside it. So you just had to turn it
> > anti-clockwise which you could do using the method you describe.

>
> > But I might have got that wrong too...

>
> No, you got it right. They were known simply as "freewheels" and right
> barstewards to get off because pedalling tightened them up.
>
> ~PB


Isn't it wonderful how they keep improving things!

Sniper8052
 
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
>
> No, you got it right. They were known simply as "freewheels" and right
> barstewards to get off because pedalling tightened them up.
>


Try one on a tandem for a real challenge ;-)

--
Tony

" I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong."
Bertrand Russell
 
In article <[email protected]>, ikmotgeenspam@m-
gineering.nl says...
>
> you're too old, that is the procedure for stuck freewheels ;). But you
> can modify the procedure for removing stubborn cassettelockrings by
> using two chainwhips
>


Or by wiring the cassette to the spokes and hub with some strong wire.


--
Tony

" I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong."
Bertrand Russell
 
Quoting David Damerell <[email protected]>:
>Quoting Duncan Smith <[email protected]>:
>>Another D.I.Y. stumbling block... I'm trying to change the 9 speed
>>Shimano Cassette on my MTB. Wheel is off and QR is out.

>Hypercracker or similar tool, if you trust your frame?


OK, so that was a silly idea. Hacksaw most of the way through the
lockring?
--
David Damerell <[email protected]> Kill the tomato!
Today is First Oneiros, October.
 
In news:[email protected],
Tony Raven <[email protected]> tweaked the Babbage-Engine to tell
us:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] says...
>>
>> No, you got it right. They were known simply as "freewheels" and
>> right barstewards to get off because pedalling tightened them up.
>>

>
> Try one on a tandem for a real challenge ;-)


Especially if it was a Sun Tour AG[1] which had been used on Real Hills (tm)

1 - 5 speed, 14-38...

--
Dave Larrington
<http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk>
The System is well pleased with this Unit's performance, which
falls within expected parameters.