Tire cord problem...

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by Ns>, Jun 2, 2003.

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  1. Ns>

    Ns> Guest

    Are there steel cords in Continental Ultra 2000 tires? I thought I had picked up some glass but
    there was not a visible puncture from the rod side of the tire. I felt around on the inside of the
    tire and ran across what appeared to be a steel belt or wire coming from the center of the casing
    that was causing the flats. I broke out the trusty Leatherman and whittled away at the wire/? thing
    that was causing the flats until it was gone. But the curiosity of having a steel wire coming
    through is surprising. I also wondered, if the cord was broken, am I more at risk for some
    catastrophic failure when I hit a corner at speed? The tires don't have 750 mil;es on them....

    TIA, NS
     
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  2. Robin Hubert

    Robin Hubert Guest

    Anonymous poster <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]... writes:

    > Are there steel cords in Continental Ultra 2000 tires? I thought I had picked up some glass but
    > there was not a visible puncture from the rod side of the tire. I felt around on the inside of the
    > tire and ran across what appeared to be a steel belt or wire coming from the center of the casing
    > that was causing the flats. I broke out the trusty Leatherman and whittled away at the wire/?
    > thing that was causing the flats until it was gone. But the curiosity of having a steel wire
    > coming through is surprising. I also wondered, if the cord was broken, am I more at risk for some
    > catastrophic failure when I hit a corner at speed? The tires don't have 750 mil;es on them....
    >

    That wire came from outside your tire. Just pull it out (and patch!) next time it happens. Your
    cords cannot be cut by a wire. BTW, what do you mean by "whittled away at the wire"? If you were
    excavating around it, you could've ruined your tire.

    Robin Hubert
     
  3. Ns>

    Ns> Guest

    I just scraped away at the wire until I could no longer feel it, probably, 10 scrapes (not cuts)
    with the blade across the gum wall looking stuff on the center of the tire on the inside... I swear
    I didn't see a puncture... Usually there is a visible mark where the perforator (for lack of a
    better word) came through, but no such mark...

    NS
     
  4. Jobst Brandt

    Jobst Brandt Guest

    anonymous writes:

    > Are there steel cords in Continental Ultra 2000 tires? I thought I had picked up some glass but
    > there was not a visible puncture from the rod side of the tire. I felt around on the inside of the
    > tire and ran across what appeared to be a steel belt or wire coming from the center of the casing
    > that was causing the flats. I broke out the trusty Leatherman and whittled away at the wire? thing
    > that was causing the flats until it was gone. But the curiosity of having a steel wire coming
    > through is surprising. I also wondered, if the cord was broken, am I more at risk for some
    > catastrophic failure when I hit a corner at speed? The tires don't have 750 miles on them...

    Congratulations, you have just picked up a "Michelin wire", Michelin being the inventor of the steel
    belted radial tire that today is made by many tire makers. You should have pulled the wire out. It
    is not a normal part of your tire although the wires are common on roads. We don't see them often
    because they lie flat on the road. My experience is that they enter only rear tires because they
    must first be tilted up by the front tire... or a closely preceding rider, although I've never seen
    that happen.

    That gets us back to why rear tires statistically have more flats than front tires. It is not from
    the heavier load on the rear wheel as myth and lore would have us believe, but rather that debris
    lying on the road must be tilted up to enter a tire, something the front wheel does well. It is also
    the culprit in ripping off derailleurs with a "derailleur stick" that lies flat on the road or trail
    and gets tossed onto the chain directly ahead of the derailleur. Bingo!

    Jobst Brandt [email protected] Palo Alto CA
     
  5. On Mon, 02 Jun 2003 18:41:00 GMT, [email protected] wrote:

    >That gets us back to why rear tires statistically have more flats than front tires. It is not from
    >the heavier load on the rear wheel as myth and lore would have us believe, but rather that debris
    >lying on the road must be tilted up to enter a tire, something the front wheel does well. It is
    >also the culprit in ripping off derailleurs with a "derailleur stick" that lies flat on the road or
    >trail and gets tossed onto the chain directly ahead of the derailleur. Bingo!

    Sounds good. You can feel and see it happen when it's a stick, but there's no reason it doesn't
    happen with the smaller things too. How about the much faster wear on the rear? That *is* the bigger
    load issue, isn't it?

    And what about trikes, where no wheel directly trails another? Do they (almost) never get flats? I
    suppose though with three tires instead of two, and two of them being rears, it doesn't say much
    either way about the load vs. debris-flip controversy.

    Jasper
     
  6. Dave M Wyman

    Dave M Wyman Guest

    [email protected] wrote:

    > That gets us back to why rear tires statistically have more flats than front tires. It is not from
    > the heavier load on the rear wheel as myth and lore would have us believe, but rather that debris
    > lying on the road must be tilted up to enter a tire, something the front wheel does well.

    That explains two annoying flats. Three weeks ago my rear tire was punctured by a three inch nail.
    The nail pushed through the tread, then in and out of the tube, and then out the tire's sidewall - I
    assume the tire is ruined, although the puncture diameters are rather small. It was an almost new
    tire, and an expensive one, to boot.

    A year and a half ago, my rear Specialed "Fatboy" slick rolled over a piece of glass shaped and
    sized like an arrowhead! The hole in the tire was significant - after I pulled out the piece of
    glass, I put in a new tube, put a patch on the inside of the tire, and then rode half a dozen miles
    home with my fingers figuratively crossed.

    Dave

    --
    http://www.icyclist.com
     
  7. Your tires don't. But car tires doo.

    That's probably where the wire came from.

    May you have the wind at your back. And a really low gear for the hills! Chris

    Chris'Z Corner "The Website for the Common Bicyclist": http://www.geocities.com/czcorner
     
  8. Ted Bennett

    Ted Bennett Guest

    > >That gets us back to why rear tires statistically have more flats than front tires. It is not
    > >from the heavier load on the rear wheel as myth and lore would have us believe, but rather that
    > >debris lying on the road must be tilted up to enter a tire, something the front wheel does well.

    > And what about trikes, where no wheel directly trails another? Do they (almost) never get flats? I
    > suppose though with three tires instead of two, and two of them being rears, it doesn't say much
    > either way about the load vs. debris-flip controversy.
    >
    > Jasper

    Interesting point. I ride a trike (as well as various bikes) and find that I probably get more flats
    on the trike, although they are still not common. I figured it's because there are three tracks
    rather than one.

    --
    Ted Bennett Portland OR
     
  9. Jobst Brandt

    Jobst Brandt Guest

    Dave M Wyman writes:

    >> That gets us back to why rear tires statistically have more flats than front tires. It is not
    >> from the heavier load on the rear wheel as myth and lore would have us believe, but rather that
    >> debris lying on the road must be tilted up to enter a tire, something the front wheel does well.

    > That explains two annoying flats. Three weeks ago my rear tire was punctured by a three inch nail.
    > The nail pushed through the tread, then in and out of the tube, and then out the tire's sidewall -
    > I assume the tire is ruined, although the puncture diameters are rather small. It was an almost
    > new tire, and an expensive one, to boot.

    > A year and a half ago, my rear Specialed "Fatboy" slick rolled over a piece of glass shaped and
    > sized like an arrowhead! The hole in the tire was significant - after I pulled out the piece of
    > glass, I put in a new tube, put a patch on the inside of the tire, and then rode half a dozen
    > miles home with my fingers figuratively crossed.

    My pursuit of these questions started at an early age. This one arose when my father told me that
    rear car tires get more flats than front tires because the driving torque sucked them in. I was in
    the first grade at that time and my father was an economist, not an engineer. However, it started me
    on questioning any such claim that wasn't substantiated by some reasonable explanation, be that
    about cars, airplanes or bicycles.

    Jobst Brandt [email protected] Palo Alto CA
     
  10. A Muzi

    A Muzi Guest

    "NS>" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > Are there steel cords in Continental Ultra 2000 tires? I thought I had picked up some glass but
    > there was not a visible puncture from the rod side of the tire. I felt around on the inside of the
    > tire and ran across what appeared to be a steel belt or wire coming from the center of the casing
    > that was causing the flats. I broke out the trusty Leatherman and whittled away at the wire/?
    > thing that was causing the flats until it was gone. But the curiosity of having a steel wire
    > coming through is surprising. I also wondered, if the cord was broken, am I more at risk for some
    > catastrophic failure when I hit a corner at speed? The tires don't have 750 mil;es on them....
    >
    >
    > TIA,
    > NS>
    >
    It was a stray piece of wire picked up on the road. I'm seeing more of those lately. The wire in the
    bead at the edge of your tire is much thicker gauge and there's no way it could end up in the center
    of the casing. Hell if you see that wire at all your tire is shot.

    --
    Andrew Muzi http://www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April 1971
     
  11. On Mon, 02 Jun 2003 16:55:21 +0000, Ted Bennett wrote:

    > Interesting point. I ride a trike (as well as various bikes) and find that I probably get more
    > flats on the trike, although they are still not common. I figured it's because there are three
    > tracks rather than one.

    I assume this trike is a bent. If so, the reason for the more common flats would be that you can't
    get out of the saddle and absorb impacts like you can on an upright, so you probably get a lot more
    pinch flats and damaged tire cord.

    --

    David L. Johnson

    __o | I don't believe you, you've got the whole damn thing all wrong. _`\(,_ | He's not the kind
    you have to wind-up on Sundays. --Ian (_)/ (_) | Anderson
     
  12. Ted Bennett

    Ted Bennett Guest

    "David L. Johnson" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > > Interesting point. I ride a trike (as well as various bikes) and find that I probably get more
    > > flats on the trike, although they are still not common. I figured it's because there are three
    > > tracks rather than one.
    >
    > I assume this trike is a bent. If so, the reason for the more common flats would be that you can't
    > get out of the saddle and absorb impacts like you can on an upright, so you probably get a lot
    > more pinch flats and damaged tire cord.

    Your assumptions are partly right, and partly wrong. It is a 'bent, but I have never got any pinch
    flats, only punctures. The tires are fairly wide compared to most road bike tires: Tioga Comp Pools
    are 1.75" wide, and I inflate all three 80 to 90 psi.

    --
    Ted Bennett Portland OR
     
  13. > My pursuit of these questions started at an early age. This one arose when my father told me that
    > rear car tires get more flats than front tires because the driving torque sucked them in. I was in
    > the first grade at that time and my father was an economist, not an engineer. However, it started
    > me on questioning any such claim that wasn't substantiated by some reasonable explanation, be that
    > about cars, airplanes or bicycles. (Jobst)

    And now you know the rest of the story.

    --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
     
  14. Ns>

    Ns> Guest

    I took the tire off of the tube...I figured that if I just got the edge of the wire with the knife
    then the rest is just festering in the tire ready to make days bad later on. Upon reinspection, I
    noticed the wire that was in the tire still, was about 3/8 of an inch long and smaller in
    circumference than a needle. So if that sounds like one of those Michelin wires then they really ,
    really need to get a better construct plan for their tires! Thanks for the info.... I would've had
    another bad day, instead of a nice ride...

    It wasn't a bad cord after all. Thanks...

    NS
     
  15. Harris

    Harris Guest

    A Muzi <[email protected]> wrote:
    > It was a stray piece of wire picked up on the road. I'm seeing more of those lately. The wire in
    > the bead at the edge of your tire is much thicker gauge and there's no way it could end up in the
    > center of the casing. Hell if you see that wire at all your tire is shot.

    Hmmm. This reminds me of the Wolber "Invulverable" sewups that I used in the early '80s. They had a
    steel mesh under the tread to supposedly minimize flats. But eventually, the mesh would break apart
    (especially in the rear) and puncture the tube. I had at least two blowouts as a result.

    Art Harris
     
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