Tire failure cause

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by Goimir, Apr 15, 2003.

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  1. Goimir

    Goimir Guest

    Well, I was riding to work today, and about a mile and a half into it, I get a flat. So I pull off
    the road, break it down, and patch the tube. I inspect the tire (quickly) and find nothing. I figure
    whatever it was must have fallen out when I took the tire off or whatever. So I ride along, and
    another 2 miles or so, I get another flat. I call the wife, and I call work, telling them I'm going
    to be late.

    <insert boring work day here>

    At home, I look at the tire, and the patch was holding(initially I thought the patch gave way, was
    my first patch job ever), but there was another hole. I lined up the powder mark with the first
    patch to find exactly what caused the second hole(same shape as the first hole, same lattitude on
    the tube). Turns out there is a hole in the tire where it mounts to the rim, and all the nylon cords
    are cut 1/4 of the way around the tire. In addition, there is damage to the rubber in varying
    degrees all in that same area(where the rim makes contact).

    All this after only 400 or so miles on the bicycle. What happened, what should I do so I can ride
    again, and how do I prevent this from happening in the future?

    --
    8g Random Text Ribbon p C To Protest ;q Government Monitoring of
    ( FElectronic Communications
     
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  2. Jon Isaacs

    Jon Isaacs Guest

    >At home, I look at the tire, and the patch was holding(initially I thought the patch gave way, was
    >my first patch job ever), but there was another hole. I lined up the powder mark with the first
    >patch to find exactly what caused the second hole(same shape as the first hole, same lattitude on
    >the tube). Turns out there is a hole in the tire where it mounts to the rim, and all the nylon
    >cords are cut 1/4 of the way around the tire. In addition, there is damage to the rubber in varying
    >degrees all in that same area(where the rim makes contact).
    >
    >All this after only 400 or so miles on the bicycle. What happened, what should I do so I can ride
    >again, and how do I prevent this from happening in the future?
    >

    Checkout to make sure that the brake pad is not rubbing on the tire when you apply the brake. If the
    brake pad is misadjusted it will rub against the tire and cut the tire as you describe. 400 miles is
    probably about right for it to wear through.

    You didn't mention where you purchased this bike but if indeed the brake pad did cut the tire, it is
    a sign of a poorly assembled bike and the seller needs to go over the bike and check it over again.

    Another possibility is that the tires are not properly inflated, they do loose air and need pumping
    on a weekly-monthly basis depending on various things.

    One lesson I learned the hard way is that it is best to discover the cause of the flat before
    replacing or repairing the tube.

    I have had some strange ones over the years. The oddest one happened when I was trying to use a tube
    that had been "Slimed." The stem was clogged so I cleared it out with a small screw driver.

    I later had a flat and discovered the blade and shank of the screw driver had gotten stuck in the
    tube and had punctured the tube from the inside.

    Anyway, hope you find your problem.

    Best wishes and have a good ride.

    jon isaacs
     
  3. Coal Porter

    Coal Porter Guest

    On 16 Apr 2003 00:50:39 GMT, [email protected] (Jon Isaacs) wrote:

    <>At home, I look at the tire, and the patch was holding(initially I <>thought the patch gave way,
    was my first patch job ever), but there was <>another hole. I lined up the powder mark with the
    first patch to find <>exactly what caused the second hole(same shape as the first hole, same
    <>lattitude on the tube). Turns out there is a hole in the tire where it <>mounts to the rim, and
    all the nylon cords are cut 1/4 of the way around <>the tire. In addition, there is damage to the
    rubber in varying degrees <>all in that same area(where the rim makes contact). <> <>All this after
    only 400 or so miles on the bicycle. What happened, what <>should I do so I can ride again, and how
    do I prevent this from <>happening in the future? <> < <Checkout to make sure that the brake pad is
    not rubbing on the tire when you <apply the brake. If the brake pad is misadjusted it will rub
    against the tire <and cut the tire as you describe. 400 miles is probably about right for it to
    <wear through.

    That the brake pad might be rubbing was the first thing that I thought of but having been there and
    done that, the tube doesn't just flat when the sidewall gives from the brake rub, it explodes with
    the loud pop that indicates tire failure. At least in happened that way in my case.

    < <You didn't mention where you purchased this bike but if indeed the brake pad <did cut the tire,
    it is a sign of a poorly assembled bike and the seller needs <to go over the bike and check it over
    again. < <Another possibility is that the tires are not properly inflated, they do loose <air and
    need pumping on a weekly-monthly basis depending on various things. < <One lesson I learned the hard
    way is that it is best to discover the cause of <the flat before replacing or repairing the tube. <
    <I have had some strange ones over the years. The oddest one happened when I <was trying to use a
    tube that had been "Slimed." The stem was clogged so I <cleared it out with a small screw driver. <
    <I later had a flat and discovered the blade and shank of the screw driver had <gotten stuck in the
    tube and had punctured the tube from the inside. < <Anyway, hope you find your problem. < <Best
    wishes and have a good ride. < <jon isaacs <
     
  4. Coal Porter wrote:

    > On 16 Apr 2003 00:50:39 GMT, [email protected] (Jon Isaacs) wrote:
    >
    > <>At home, I look at the tire, and the patch was holding(initially I <>thought the patch gave way,
    > was my first patch job ever), but there was <>another hole. I lined up the powder mark with the
    > first patch to find <>exactly what caused the second hole(same shape as the first hole, same
    > <>lattitude on the tube). Turns out there is a hole in the tire where it <>mounts to the rim, and
    > all the nylon cords are cut 1/4 of the way around <>the tire. In addition, there is damage to the
    > rubber in varying degrees <>all in that same area(where the rim makes contact). <>> <
    >
    it's caused by dirt getting between the tire and rim - it slowly eats it's way through as the
    sidewall flexes from riding it.
     
  5. Goimir

    Goimir Guest

    Jon Isaacs wrote:

    >
    > Checkout to make sure that the brake pad is not rubbing on the tire when you apply the brake. If
    > the brake pad is misadjusted it will rub against the tire and cut the tire as you describe. 400
    > miles is probably about right for it to wear through.
    >

    Nope, and you can't actually see where the wear is with the tire mounted. It was only after it was
    removed that the damage became apparent. But looking back, I could see a little bit of a bulge where
    the hole(1/8th of an inch) now is in the tire.

    >
    > You didn't mention where you purchased this bike but if indeed the brake pad did cut the tire,
    > it is a sign of a poorly assembled bike and the seller needs to go over the bike and check it
    > over again.
    >

    Was a gift, bike was purchased at a LBS, and I even took it in for the tuneup after 100 miles

    >
    > Another possibility is that the tires are not properly inflated, they do loose air and need
    > pumping on a weekly-monthly basis depending on various things.
    >

    Kept the tires inflated around 60 to 65(40 to 65 is what's stamped on the side)

    >
    > Best wishes and have a good ride.
    >

    I will, as soon as I get a new tire. Payday is Friday, unfortunatly, so I have to wait until then.
     
  6. > I will, as soon as I get a new tire. Payday is Friday, unfortunatly, so I have to wait until then.

    I do suggest that you look at the other wheel to make sure it's tire is OK before you go to your
    lbs. Also, before you go tire shopping, check the wheel with the flat. Look and feel inside of the
    rim around the hook area for burrs or sharp edges. If present, the shop that sold the bike should be
    respondible for the tire as well as the rim.

    On first read, I would have bet on the brakes, but you have checked that the pads are not touching
    the tire, even when the brakes are applied with maximum force. Right?

    Also, just a thought and a far out one at that: Could your tire levers have a burr or sharp spot
    that caused the cut?

    More likely, is there any chance that the tire got pinched between...say a curb and the rim? There
    would be scuffing of the tire sidewall in that case and maybe some scratches on the side of the rim.

    If it were me, I'd worry until I found some plausable reason for the flat. Tires just do not develop
    cuts like that for no reason other then 400 miles of wear. If you have not figured it out by Friday,
    I'd suggest that you take the bike, not just the wheel, to the lbs and let them have a look. When
    you figure it out, I'd be interested to hear about it.

    Good luck.

    Steve
     
  7. Goimir <[email protected]> wrote:
    >I will, as soon as I get a new tire.

    In the mean time, I find that duct tape (on the inside, obviously) will patch up moderately sized
    sidewall failures. My rear tyre, otherwise perfectly good, has had a thus-patched cut sidewall for
    some months now.
    --
    David Damerell <[email protected]> Distortion Field!
     
  8. Bosaci

    Bosaci Guest

    "Goimir" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > Jon Isaacs wrote:
    >
    > >
    > > Checkout to make sure that the brake pad is not rubbing on the tire when
    you
    > > apply the brake. If the brake pad is misadjusted it will rub against
    the tire
    > > and cut the tire as you describe. 400 miles is probably about right for
    it to
    > > wear through.
    > >
    >
    > Nope, and you can't actually see where the wear is with the tire mounted.
    It was
    > only after it was removed that the damage became apparent. But looking
    back,
    > I could see a little bit of a bulge where the hole(1/8th of an inch) now
    is in
    > the tire.
    >
    > >
    > > You didn't mention where you purchased this bike but if indeed the brake
    pad
    > > did cut the tire, it is a sign of a poorly assembled bike and the seller
    needs
    > > to go over the bike and check it over again.
    > >
    >
    > Was a gift, bike was purchased at a LBS, and I even took it in for the
    tuneup
    > after 100 miles

    Next time try to purchase a bike on-line and learn to adjust everything yourself, you will be much
    better off financially and will have learned a lot.

    When it is a gift though you have to take it as is and even if they do a crappy job assembling and
    adjusting it you should learn how to do such things yourself.
     
  9. A Muzi

    A Muzi Guest

    > Coal Porter wrote:
    >
    > > On 16 Apr 2003 00:50:39 GMT, [email protected] (Jon Isaacs) wrote:
    > >
    > > <>At home, I look at the tire, and the patch was holding(initially I <>thought the patch gave
    > > way, was my first patch job ever), but there
    was
    > > <>another hole. I lined up the powder mark with the first patch to find <>exactly what caused
    > > the second hole(same shape as the first hole, same <>lattitude on the tube). Turns out there is
    > > a hole in the tire where
    it
    > > <>mounts to the rim, and all the nylon cords are cut 1/4 of the way
    around
    > > <>the tire. In addition, there is damage to the rubber in varying
    degrees
    > > <>all in that same area(where the rim makes contact).

    "James Connell" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > it's caused by dirt getting between the tire and rim - it slowly eats it's way through as the
    > sidewall flexes from riding it.

    That's very creative. I, for one, don't believe that's what is happening in there at all.

    --
    Andrew Muzi http://www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April 1971
     
  10. A Muzi wrote:
    >>Coal Porter wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>On 16 Apr 2003 00:50:39 GMT, [email protected] (Jon Isaacs) wrote:
    >>>
    >>><>At home, I look at the tire, and the patch was holding(initially I <>thought the patch gave
    >>>way, was my first patch job ever), but there
    >
    > was
    >
    >>><>another hole. I lined up the powder mark with the first patch to find <>exactly what caused the
    >>>second hole(same shape as the first hole, same <>lattitude on the tube). Turns out there is a
    >>>hole in the tire where
    >
    > it
    >
    >>><>mounts to the rim, and all the nylon cords are cut 1/4 of the way
    >
    > around
    >
    >>><>the tire. In addition, there is damage to the rubber in varying
    >
    > degrees
    >
    >>><>all in that same area(where the rim makes contact).
    >
    >
    >
    > "James Connell" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    >
    >>it's caused by dirt getting between the tire and rim - it slowly eats it's way through as the
    >>sidewall flexes from riding it.
    >
    >
    >
    > That's very creative. I, for one, don't believe that's what is happening in there at all.
    >
    > --
    > Andrew Muzi http://www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April 1971
    >
    >

    it may or may not be the cause. i've seen it happen during winter riding in wet areas (portland Or
    for one), if the tire has bead tape that doesn't come up above the rim. some tires have very little
    tape over the bead some have more. road grim gets on the lip of the rim and will slowly (~400 mi)
    eat it's way into the side wall. the original poster didn't say if the other side of the tire was
    worn in the same way or not. if it is and it's not the brakes and the rim/tires are dirty from
    winter rideing And the bead tape is 'short' then thats likely the cause.

    BTW i don't give a damn what you believe. most of the fools on this group couldn't wrench their way
    out of a paper bag. my guess is that includes you. else what is your guess of the cause.
     
  11. Mark Janeba

    Mark Janeba Guest

    James Connell wrote:
    >>> it's caused by dirt getting between the tire and rim - it slowly eats it's way through as the
    >>> sidewall flexes from riding it.
    >>
    Andrew Muzi replied:
    >> That's very creative. I, for one, don't believe that's what is happening in there at all.

    James Connell retorted:
    > it may or may not be the cause. i've seen it happen during winter riding in wet areas (portland Or
    > for one), if the tire has bead tape that doesn't come up above the rim. some tires have very
    > little tape over the bead some have more. road grim gets on the lip of the rim and will slowly
    > (~400 mi) eat it's way into the side wall.

    I've been commuting about 750 miles/yr in western Oregon rain for about 17 years. Lots of yucky grit
    all over my rims/tires - changing a flat (rare for me, knock wood) is a really filthy experience.
    (This is on my commuting bike, which gets cleaned only once or twice a year.)

    I've lost tires through rim-edge cuts from the previously mentioned misaligned pads, but other than
    that, no eating into the sidewall witnessed here. Maybe if you ran really low pressures that allowed
    lots of sidewall flex? That would probably ruin tires w/o the grit.

    James Connell continued:

    > BTW i don't give a damn what you believe. most of the fools on this group couldn't wrench their
    > way out of a paper bag. my guess is that includes you. else what is your guess of the cause.

    You must not have been reading this group too long. Muzi is one of the valuable contributors, as
    evidenced by years of thoughtful contributions backed up by clear reasoning and much factual data.

    Regards,
    --
    Mark Janeba remove antispam phrase in address to reply
     
  12. Mark Janeba wrote:
    > James Connell wrote:
    >
    >>>> it's caused by dirt getting between the tire and rim - it slowly eats it's way through as the
    >>>> sidewall flexes from riding it.
    >>>
    >>>
    > Andrew Muzi replied:
    >
    >>> That's very creative. I, for one, don't believe that's what is happening in there at all.
    >
    >
    > James Connell retorted:
    >
    >> it may or may not be the cause. i've seen it happen during winter riding in wet areas (portland
    >> Or for one), if the tire has bead tape that doesn't come up above the rim. some tires have very
    >> little tape over the bead some have more. road grim gets on the lip of the rim and will slowly
    >> (~400 mi) eat it's way into the side wall.
    >
    >
    > I've been commuting about 750 miles/yr in western Oregon rain for about 17 years. Lots of yucky
    > grit all over my rims/tires - changing a flat (rare for me, knock wood) is a really filthy
    > experience. (This is on my commuting bike, which gets cleaned only once or twice a year.)
    >
    > I've lost tires through rim-edge cuts from the previously mentioned misaligned pads, but other
    > than that, no eating into the sidewall witnessed here. Maybe if you ran really low pressures that
    > allowed lots of sidewall flex? That would probably ruin tires w/o the grit.

    what tires you use? it really only affects the tire if the sidewall is in contact with the rim, most
    have tape over the beads far enough up that it doesn't hurt them - at least not very quickly, tread
    will were out first. the rubber i see with this problem are usualy thin/light. it sometimes happens
    with MTB rubber as well again for the same reason. it almost always happens on the rear ( i can only
    remember case on the front).

    i'm glad you have had no trouble in ~12000 mi. i ride that much in a year also in a shop you see not
    1 bike, but 20+ a day that have seen all types of useage and milages - a 'slightly' larger sample,
    eh? the problem fairly rare.

    >
    > James Connell continued:
    >
    >> BTW i don't give a damn what you believe. most of the fools on this group couldn't wrench their
    >> way out of a paper bag. my guess is that includes you. else what is your guess of the cause.
    >
    >
    > You must not have been reading this group too long. Muzi is one of the valuable contributors, as
    > evidenced by years of thoughtful contributions backed up by clear reasoning and much factual data.
    >
    > Regards,

    actualy i haven't read this group for ~4 years - i only recognize que pasa campy, mat the tool and
    that jackass brandt. didn't really care much for the collection of dipshits here - most think they
    know what they're talking about yet Never have made a living at it ( nor worked on more then their
    and a friends bike).
     
  13. Peter Cole

    Peter Cole Guest

    "A Muzi" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "James Connell" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > > it's caused by dirt getting between the tire and rim - it slowly eats it's way through as the
    > > sidewall flexes from riding it.
    >
    >
    > That's very creative. I, for one, don't believe that's what is happening in there at all.

    Didn't Jobst say that aluminum residue from the rim eats the sidewalls at the rim edge? I've had
    lots of tires fail this way, I'd say most of my tires fail there long before the tread wears out.
     
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