Tire - thump, thump, thump-BLAM!

Discussion in 'Recumbent bicycles' started by bentcruiser, Apr 22, 2003.

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  1. bentcruiser

    bentcruiser New Member

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    I had not yet put on my favorite touring tires (Schwalbe Marathons) on my Canto until yesterday. My current tubes did not fit the tires so I had to get some that did.

    I rode approximately 100 feet on the tires and the rear tire went thump, thump, thump BLAM!

    I looked down at the rear tire and in one point it was completely blown off the rim. It was where the tube had blown. The tube had about a 6 inch perfect split in it. Upon further examining the tube, I noticed the size on it (and the other tubes I had bought) were 26" x 1". My Schwalbes both have a 1.5" width.

    So what I am wondering is what caused the flat? The Schwalbe? The small tube? Should I have used a 1.35" tube (that works for the front one)?

    Derek
     
    Tags:


  2. >bentcruiser" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > I had not yet put on my favorite touring tires (Schwalbe Marathons) on my Canto until yesterday.
    > My current tubes did not fit the tires so I had to get some that did.
    >
    > I rode approximately 100 feet on the tires and the rear tire went thump, thump, thump BLAM!

    You should be using a larger tube, but that is not what caused the blowout. Your blowout was a
    classic case of the tire not being seated evenly around the rim, or the tube was pinched between the
    tire and the rim. One part of the tire bead started to protrude over the rim, allowing the tube to
    bulge out (hence the thumping of the tire or tube hitting the brake shoe). Once this occurs it is
    only seconds until the bulging part of the tube EXPLODES. The one time this happened to me people
    came out of their houses to see if someone was shooting.

    Not all tires and rims of the "correct" size mate properly. Some tire and rim combinations are of
    such a loose fit that "blowouts" are more likely to happen. I once had to buy a different brand of
    rim to properly match the tire I wanted to use. The manufacturing tolerances for rims and tires are
    apparently pretty loose.

    Len
     
  3. I have found you can experience this problem (as described below) even with properly rims and tires
    if you don't mount them correctly.

    My procedure is as follws:

    Be sure the rim tape is clean and there are no protruding or uncovered spoke nipples. Repair or
    replace as necessary.

    Unfold new tube or place old tube inside tire, slightly inflate to push it into place, then deflate
    somewhat. Leave tube in tire.

    Line use valve stem with hole in rim. Partially insert stem and then place 1 bread on tire/tube
    combo over 1 side of rim . Be sure that tire is deflated enough, work other bead over rim with
    fingers. This can be done if you make sure the bread is pushed toward the center of the rim channel
    all the way around as it is being installed. I haven't used a "tire iron" for assembly in years.

    Check carefully for a trapped inner tube by squeezing the beads of the tire toward the center and
    looking for a tube curled under both tire beads. If installed properly, the tube should not be
    visible when the tire side are squeezed towards the center. If found, fix it.

    Once the tire is installed, inflate to 20 lbs, then deflate to "set" the tube in the tire.

    Look for a fine line molded into the tire just above the rim bead. Assuming its a road tire, inflate
    to about 30 lbs, and look carefully at both sides - the fine line should be evenly spaced away from
    the rim all the way around. If not, deflate tire, and try to recenter ther tire by pulling on
    "short" side (where line disappears behind rim). Note that sidewall coloration or tread edge lines
    may not be symetrical - always use molded in rim lines on tire to judge centering.

    Inflate to working pressure. Check centering line again. Deflate and rework as necessary.

    I have had good fitting tires pop off the rim when inflated for the first time if they were not
    mounted reasonably well centered. After replacing the tube, these same tires (properly mounted) have
    given good service.

    "Lennert Thunberg" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > >bentcruiser" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > I had not yet put on my favorite touring tires (Schwalbe Marathons) on my Canto until yesterday.
    > > My current tubes did not fit the tires so I had to get some that did.
    > >
    > > I rode approximately 100 feet on the tires and the rear tire went thump, thump, thump BLAM!
    >
    > You should be using a larger tube, but that is not what caused the
    blowout.
    > Your blowout was a classic case of the tire not being seated evenly around the rim, or the tube
    > was pinched between the tire and the rim. One part
    of
    > the tire bead started to protrude over the rim, allowing the tube to bulge out (hence the thumping
    > of the tire or tube hitting the brake shoe). Once this occurs it is only seconds until the bulging
    > part of the tube
    EXPLODES.
    > The one time this happened to me people came out of their houses to see if someone was shooting.
    >
    > Not all tires and rims of the "correct" size mate properly. Some tire and rim combinations are of
    > such a loose fit that "blowouts" are more likely
    to
    > happen. I once had to buy a different brand of rim to properly match the tire I wanted to use. The
    > manufacturing tolerances for rims and tires are apparently pretty loose.
    >
    > Len
     
  4. Al Kubeluis

    Al Kubeluis Guest

    Hi Pieter, You describe a good procedure below. I have found that having talcum powder on tube and
    inside of wheel rims helps with seating and getting tire on rim. Also using full gloves (not biking
    gloves with exposed fingers) or a rag or a handkerchief helps fingering tire onto rim, since a
    better grip on tire is provided. A Zipp Stick works better for me than plastic or metal tire irons,
    since irons tend to pinch tube especially if used to put tire on. But flat fixing on the road is
    still time consuming and aggravating.
    --
    ~~~al.kubeluis..md.usa.earth.sun.milkyway.virgo.universe..corsa~~~

    "Pieter Litchfield" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:2%[email protected]...
    > I have found you can experience this problem (as described below) even
    with
    > properly rims and tires if you don't mount them correctly.
    >
    > My procedure is as follws:
    >
    > Be sure the rim tape is clean and there are no protruding or uncovered
    spoke
    > nipples. Repair or replace as necessary.
    >
    > Unfold new tube or place old tube inside tire, slightly inflate to push it into place, then
    > deflate somewhat. Leave tube in tire.
    >
    > Line use valve stem with hole in rim. Partially insert stem and then place
    1
    > bread on tire/tube combo over 1 side of rim . Be sure that tire is
    deflated
    > enough, work other bead over rim with fingers. This can be done if you
    make
    > sure the bread is pushed toward the center of the rim channel all the way around as it is being
    > installed. I haven't used a "tire iron" for
    assembly
    > in years.
    >
    > Check carefully for a trapped inner tube by squeezing the beads of the
    tire
    > toward the center and looking for a tube curled under both tire beads. If installed properly, the
    > tube should not be visible when the tire side are squeezed towards the center. If found, fix it.
    >
    > Once the tire is installed, inflate to 20 lbs, then deflate to "set" the tube in the tire.
    >
    > Look for a fine line molded into the tire just above the rim bead.
    Assuming
    > its a road tire, inflate to about 30 lbs, and look carefully at both
    sides -
    > the fine line should be evenly spaced away from the rim all the way
    around.
    > If not, deflate tire, and try to recenter ther tire by pulling on "short" side (where line
    > disappears behind rim). Note that sidewall coloration or tread edge lines may not be symetrical -
    > always use molded in rim lines on tire to judge centering.
    >
    > Inflate to working pressure. Check centering line again. Deflate and rework as necessary.
    >
    > I have had good fitting tires pop off the rim when inflated for the first time if they were not
    > mounted reasonably well centered. After replacing
    the
    > tube, these same tires (properly mounted) have given good service.
    >
    >
    > "Lennert Thunberg" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > >bentcruiser" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > I had not yet put on my favorite touring tires (Schwalbe Marathons) on my Canto until
    > > > yesterday. My current tubes did not fit the tires so I had to get some that did.
    > > >
    > > > I rode approximately 100 feet on the tires and the rear tire went
    thump,
    > > > thump, thump BLAM!
    > >
    > > You should be using a larger tube, but that is not what caused the
    > blowout.
    > > Your blowout was a classic case of the tire not being seated evenly
    around
    > > the rim, or the tube was pinched between the tire and the rim. One part
    > of
    > > the tire bead started to protrude over the rim, allowing the tube to
    bulge
    > > out (hence the thumping of the tire or tube hitting the brake shoe).
    Once
    > > this occurs it is only seconds until the bulging part of the tube
    > EXPLODES.
    > > The one time this happened to me people came out of their houses to see
    if
    > > someone was shooting.
    > >
    > > Not all tires and rims of the "correct" size mate properly. Some tire
    and
    > > rim combinations are of such a loose fit that "blowouts" are more
    likely
    > to
    > > happen. I once had to buy a different brand of rim to properly match
    the
    > > tire I wanted to use. The manufacturing tolerances for rims and tires
    are
    > > apparently pretty loose.
    > >
    > > Len
    > >
    > >
    >
     
  5. bentcruiser

    bentcruiser New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2003
    Messages:
    237
    Likes Received:
    0
    That is usually what I do. The funnier part to this story that I left out of the first post was that the bike shop put it on. I find that to be strange. With my two hands, I generally do not have a problem seating the tire on the rim. I suppose I will get a 1.35" width tire and redo the tire myself.

    Derek


     
  6. Yes; Peter good discription. One thing I do is inflate the tire to about 15 pounds of air then stand
    it on the ground, put my some of my weight on it and roll it a couple of times, this seems to help
    hook the bead into the rim. then follow your directions. Being careful is key though. I've screwed
    up enough tubes to know enough to take my time :) Denny in Sayre, Pa "Bent but not broken"
    www.recumbentstuff.com

    "Al Kubeluis" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Hi Pieter, You describe a good procedure below. I have found that having talcum powder on tube and
    > inside of wheel
    rims
    > helps with seating and getting tire on rim. Also using full gloves
    (not
    > biking gloves with exposed fingers) or a rag or a handkerchief helps fingering tire onto rim,
    > since a better grip on tire is provided. A Zipp Stick works better for me than plastic or metal
    > tire irons,
    since
    > irons tend to pinch tube especially if used to put tire on. But flat fixing on the road is still
    > time consuming and aggravating.
    > --
    > ~~~al.kubeluis..md.usa.earth.sun.milkyway.virgo.universe..corsa~~~
    >
    > "Pieter Litchfield" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:2%[email protected]...
    > > I have found you can experience this problem (as described below) even
    > with
    > > properly rims and tires if you don't mount them correctly.
    > >
    > > My procedure is as follws:
    > >
    > > Be sure the rim tape is clean and there are no protruding or uncovered
    > spoke
    > > nipples. Repair or replace as necessary.
    > >
    > > Unfold new tube or place old tube inside tire, slightly inflate to push
    it
    > > into place, then deflate somewhat. Leave tube in tire.
    > >
    > > Line use valve stem with hole in rim. Partially insert stem and then
    place
    > 1
    > > bread on tire/tube combo over 1 side of rim . Be sure that tire is
    > deflated
    > > enough, work other bead over rim with fingers. This can be done if you
    > make
    > > sure the bread is pushed toward the center of the rim channel all the
    way
    > > around as it is being installed. I haven't used a "tire iron" for
    > assembly
    > > in years.
    > >
    > > Check carefully for a trapped inner tube by squeezing the beads of the
    > tire
    > > toward the center and looking for a tube curled under both tire beads.
    If
    > > installed properly, the tube should not be visible when the tire side
    are
    > > squeezed towards the center. If found, fix it.
    > >
    > > Once the tire is installed, inflate to 20 lbs, then deflate to "set" the tube in the tire.
    > >
    > > Look for a fine line molded into the tire just above the rim bead.
    > Assuming
    > > its a road tire, inflate to about 30 lbs, and look carefully at both
    > sides -
    > > the fine line should be evenly spaced away from the rim all the way
    > around.
    > > If not, deflate tire, and try to recenter ther tire by pulling on
    "short"
    > > side (where line disappears behind rim). Note that sidewall coloration
    or
    > > tread edge lines may not be symetrical - always use molded in rim lines
    on
    > > tire to judge centering.
    > >
    > > Inflate to working pressure. Check centering line again. Deflate and rework as necessary.
    > >
    > > I have had good fitting tires pop off the rim when inflated for the
    first
    > > time if they were not mounted reasonably well centered. After replacing
    > the
    > > tube, these same tires (properly mounted) have given good service.
    > >
    > >
    > > "Lennert Thunberg" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > >bentcruiser" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > > I had not yet put on my favorite touring tires (Schwalbe Marathons)
    on
    > > > > my Canto until yesterday. My current tubes did not fit the tires so
    I
    > > > > had to get some that did.
    > > > >
    > > > > I rode approximately 100 feet on the tires and the rear tire went
    > thump,
    > > > > thump, thump BLAM!
    > > >
    > > > You should be using a larger tube, but that is not what caused the
    > > blowout.
    > > > Your blowout was a classic case of the tire not being seated evenly
    > around
    > > > the rim, or the tube was pinched between the tire and the rim. One
    part
    > > of
    > > > the tire bead started to protrude over the rim, allowing the tube to
    > bulge
    > > > out (hence the thumping of the tire or tube hitting the brake shoe).
    > Once
    > > > this occurs it is only seconds until the bulging part of the tube
    > > EXPLODES.
    > > > The one time this happened to me people came out of their houses to
    see
    > if
    > > > someone was shooting.
    > > >
    > > > Not all tires and rims of the "correct" size mate properly. Some tire
    > and
    > > > rim combinations are of such a loose fit that "blowouts" are more
    > likely
    > > to
    > > > happen. I once had to buy a different brand of rim to properly match
    > the
    > > > tire I wanted to use. The manufacturing tolerances for rims and tires
    > are
    > > > apparently pretty loose.
    > > >
    > > > Len
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > >
    >
     
  7. Denny - you're quite right. I forgot in my suggestions to add that after inflating to 20 lbs or
    so, I bounce the assembled wheel & tire on the ground while rotating a few times to set the
    bead as well.

    "Denny Voorhees" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Yes; Peter good discription. One thing I do is inflate the tire to about
    15
    > pounds of air then stand it on the ground, put my some of my weight on it and roll it a couple of
    > times, this seems to help hook the bead into the rim. then follow your directions. Being careful
    > is key though. I've screwed up enough tubes to know enough
    to
    > take my time :) Denny in Sayre, Pa "Bent but not broken" www.recumbentstuff.com
    >
    >
    > "Al Kubeluis" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > Hi Pieter, You describe a good procedure below. I have found that having talcum powder on tube
    > > and inside of wheel
    > rims
    > > helps with seating and getting tire on rim. Also using full gloves
    > (not
    > > biking gloves with exposed fingers) or a rag or a handkerchief helps fingering tire onto rim,
    > > since a better grip on tire is provided. A Zipp Stick works better for me than plastic or metal
    > > tire irons,
    > since
    > > irons tend to pinch tube especially if used to put tire on. But flat fixing on the road is still
    > > time consuming and aggravating.
    > > --
    > > ~~~al.kubeluis..md.usa.earth.sun.milkyway.virgo.universe..corsa~~~
    > >
    > > "Pieter Litchfield" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:2%[email protected]...
    > > > I have found you can experience this problem (as described below) even
    > > with
    > > > properly rims and tires if you don't mount them correctly.
    > > >
    > > > My procedure is as follws:
    > > >
    > > > Be sure the rim tape is clean and there are no protruding or uncovered
    > > spoke
    > > > nipples. Repair or replace as necessary.
    > > >
    > > > Unfold new tube or place old tube inside tire, slightly inflate to
    push
    > it
    > > > into place, then deflate somewhat. Leave tube in tire.
    > > >
    > > > Line use valve stem with hole in rim. Partially insert stem and then
    > place
    > > 1
    > > > bread on tire/tube combo over 1 side of rim . Be sure that tire is
    > > deflated
    > > > enough, work other bead over rim with fingers. This can be done if
    you
    > > make
    > > > sure the bread is pushed toward the center of the rim channel all the
    > way
    > > > around as it is being installed. I haven't used a "tire iron" for
    > > assembly
    > > > in years.
    > > >
    > > > Check carefully for a trapped inner tube by squeezing the beads of the
    > > tire
    > > > toward the center and looking for a tube curled under both tire beads.
    > If
    > > > installed properly, the tube should not be visible when the tire side
    > are
    > > > squeezed towards the center. If found, fix it.
    > > >
    > > > Once the tire is installed, inflate to 20 lbs, then deflate to "set"
    the
    > > > tube in the tire.
    > > >
    > > > Look for a fine line molded into the tire just above the rim bead.
    > > Assuming
    > > > its a road tire, inflate to about 30 lbs, and look carefully at both
    > > sides -
    > > > the fine line should be evenly spaced away from the rim all the way
    > > around.
    > > > If not, deflate tire, and try to recenter ther tire by pulling on
    > "short"
    > > > side (where line disappears behind rim). Note that sidewall
    coloration
    > or
    > > > tread edge lines may not be symetrical - always use molded in rim
    lines
    > on
    > > > tire to judge centering.
    > > >
    > > > Inflate to working pressure. Check centering line again. Deflate and rework as necessary.
    > > >
    > > > I have had good fitting tires pop off the rim when inflated for the
    > first
    > > > time if they were not mounted reasonably well centered. After
    replacing
    > > the
    > > > tube, these same tires (properly mounted) have given good service.
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > "Lennert Thunberg" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > > >bentcruiser" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > > > I had not yet put on my favorite touring tires (Schwalbe
    Marathons)
    > on
    > > > > > my Canto until yesterday. My current tubes did not fit the tires
    so
    > I
    > > > > > had to get some that did.
    > > > > >
    > > > > > I rode approximately 100 feet on the tires and the rear tire went
    > > thump,
    > > > > > thump, thump BLAM!
    > > > >
    > > > > You should be using a larger tube, but that is not what caused the
    > > > blowout.
    > > > > Your blowout was a classic case of the tire not being seated evenly
    > > around
    > > > > the rim, or the tube was pinched between the tire and the rim. One
    > part
    > > > of
    > > > > the tire bead started to protrude over the rim, allowing the tube to
    > > bulge
    > > > > out (hence the thumping of the tire or tube hitting the brake shoe).
    > > Once
    > > > > this occurs it is only seconds until the bulging part of the tube
    > > > EXPLODES.
    > > > > The one time this happened to me people came out of their houses to
    > see
    > > if
    > > > > someone was shooting.
    > > > >
    > > > > Not all tires and rims of the "correct" size mate properly. Some
    tire
    > > and
    > > > > rim combinations are of such a loose fit that "blowouts" are more
    > > likely
    > > > to
    > > > > happen. I once had to buy a different brand of rim to properly
    match
    > > the
    > > > > tire I wanted to use. The manufacturing tolerances for rims and
    tires
    > > are
    > > > > apparently pretty loose.
    > > > >
    > > > > Len
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > >
    >
     
  8. bentcruiser

    bentcruiser New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2003
    Messages:
    237
    Likes Received:
    0
    The Schwalbe has been returned. The bike shop found some flaws in the tire other than what caused the blow out. So it is being returned.

    Derek
     
  9. ChrisW

    ChrisW New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2003
    Messages:
    32
    Likes Received:
    0
    I bought myself a 26in Marathon about a week ago, and I was able to get Schwalbe tubes to fit them (26x1.25).

    This contrasts with the Stelvio it replaced, a tyre for which Schwalbe don't appear to make a tube. I got rid of the Stelvio after two pinch flats in as many days (and before anybody tells me to pump harder, I was running at the maximum recommended pressure).

    Chris

     
  10. Andy

    Andy Guest

    I just got a new wheel and the rim looks like it is very much thinner than the tire (a Tioga Comp
    Pool). I have ridden 71 miles on the tire but I am a bit nervous. My LBS had their doubts about the
    wheel/tire combination prior to installation, but now says that if it were going to blow, it would
    have by now. (Their test is to fill the tire and bounce the wheel a few times.)

    Do I have anything to worry about?

    Andy Richard
     
  11. 98gtw

    98gtw Guest

  12. Sheldon can help : http://www.sheldonbrown.com/tire_sizing.html waaay down on the page (look for
    Width Considerations).

    Regards, Torben "Andy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > I just got a new wheel and the rim looks like it is very much thinner than the tire (a Tioga Comp
    > Pool). I have ridden 71 miles on the tire but I am
    a
    > bit nervous. My LBS had their doubts about the wheel/tire combination
    prior
    > to installation, but now says that if it were going to blow, it would have by now. (Their test is
    > to fill the tire and bounce the wheel a few
    times.)
    >
    > Do I have anything to worry about?
    >
    > Andy Richard
     
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