tired after like 4 miles

Discussion in 'Cycling Training' started by billybob1992002, Feb 23, 2005.

  1. in.10.city

    in.10.city New Member

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    Since you have only been training hard since January, your endurance and muscular endurance haven't yet caught up with your desired expectations of performance. And the hills are probably killers for you since your power to weight ratio is low.

    Also, your legs feeling like they do is probably due to your muscles' and body's endurance level - you're deriving energy from your anaerobic system for a longer period of time before your aerobic system starts to kick in.
     


  2. billybob1992002

    billybob1992002 New Member

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    hey some of ya'll had said possible hypoglycemia which is possible b/c my grandmother has that problem but i did stop drinking cokes all together so could that be a issue or a good thing.

    ok well here i what i am thinking i am going to take the rest of the week off and i am starting to eat more carbs and pasta everyday. on days that i will be riding i will be eating pasta and before my ride i will eat some penutbutter on a torilla and also loading up on fluids like gatorade and water to make shure i am hydrated. for longer rides i plan on taking a power bar for the ride. i am thinking i will just keep the same routine and just start out slower and work up more and not start so fast and just keep that speed.

    how does this sound and any suggestions or changes ya'll would make.
    i am trying to get ready for a race on aril 9th that is around 45 miles or so.
     
  3. Cheesy

    Cheesy New Member

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    That's exactly it. You're not warmed up. It sounds like once you've warmed up you don't have any problems?

    Maybe warm up a little slower. I've never found the warmup to be the most pleasant part of the ride, (or in fact any type of training) unless I ride out of the city into the mountains during my warmup (I hate the city).

    The burning is lactic acid, which suggests you're pushing too hard too soon.

    I feel worse after my 10min ride to work compared to 2hrs of training, as I don't warm up or down to ride to work, I just jump on my bike and ride hard all the way to work, and I often feel like total crap afterwards. But I have ridden for over 10h and felt good - the difference is in the warmup & down, and not pushing too hard.
     
  4. billybob1992002

    billybob1992002 New Member

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    well after i ride a bit and the burning goes away they only burn if i put it in a high gear and just push real hard but if i am just cruising at a good cadence then no they don't i have not tried hills after the burning goes away.
    so on my 22 mile rides should i just ride the first like 3 miles slow and not take it to hard and just slowly work my speed up
     
  5. closesupport

    closesupport Banned

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    here is the problem your generating quite alot of lactate because of the process that is happening beyond steady state, you could try working on your Lactate Threshold you do this by working in the zone 90% of your maximum heart rate which is your lactate threshold and above, if you work above this to maximum heartrate you'll find that the buffering system that was stated previously will be improved.

    if i was you i would be concerned more of maintaining a 90rpm cadence for the first 1.5miles then 100rpm for the next 1.5miles this should take you less than 10minutes in a comfortable gear ratio; you'll find that your legs are adequately warmed up now and ready for exercise.

    As we discussed if you are going to be riding and you wish to carb load then you should be doing it a little more than just the days that you are going to be doing long rides, 4 days before with a rest day before any race competitions upto 2 hours or so before, I love a big greasy fryup! nothing prepares me better for a long ride than a full english? as well as ensuring that you are well hydrated, you may also benefit from electrolyte replacements during longer rides since fluid electrolyte balance is a must to maintain.

    As for gaterade, you don't need to go out and spend a fortune on sports drinks. you can go to the local health shop and purchase a box of glucose fructose or anything like that add the amounts with a little salt to increase the rate of absorbtion and a fruitjuice or squash diluted for taste.
     
  6. in.10.city

    in.10.city New Member

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    Yes - try slowing spinning along for the first 5-10 minutes. Then start to increase your speed / effort effort for another 5-10 minutes for a 10-20 minute warmup. It may take longer if it's cold outside. Also, add some 30-60 harder efforts to open up your legs before starting to ride hard also.
     
  7. closesupport

    closesupport Banned

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    slow spinning, i hope you mean easy spinning, since 90/100rpm is by no means slow pedaling, i usually use 42x17 gears for this effort of work it ain't to demanding but is probably the best way that i know to warm up and reach a steady state.
     
  8. in.10.city

    in.10.city New Member

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    Sorry - slow AND easy spinning 70-80 RPMS in an easy gear to start out with and build from there. Don't start flailing your legs around in circles too soon...
     
  9. billybob1992002

    billybob1992002 New Member

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    how do you figure out your rpms and also how do you find 90% of max heart rate. i know my max heart rate. my max or upper limit is 172.75 and my threshold heart rate is 157.4
    and also when you say like the 43x17 gear how do you figure that out
     
  10. closesupport

    closesupport Banned

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    the best method is to purchase speedometre, heart rate monitor with a cadence metre the eisiest way to know your gear ratio is to count the number of teeth on each of the sprockets on both front and rear of the chain drive if you don't know what they are or ask someone what number of teeth would be found inbetween 12x21 rear cassette someone will know. :D but one thing for certain is the larger numbers are usually on the front chaindrive and the smaller numbers are on the rear cassette, if i was to say i ride in 12th gear of 16 you wouldn't really know the roll out distance of that since you wouldn't know the size i'm riding.

    it makes it easier to understand what people are trying to tell you. since the front chain drive sizes may differ considerably from 22 upto 56 for instance.

    if i was to say i was riding 100rpm on 56x11 then it would be safe to assume i was going to be going pretty fast. once you can see your cadence and your heart rate and your speed then you have something to work with, this i found was a good way to add structure to training sessions, i can now complete intervals of time not only by speed, or time in zones but now spinning and mashing with desired cadence on slopes for muscle tension intervals etc..
     
  11. closesupport

    closesupport Banned

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    i completed a MAP test or exercise stress test for mine, my max heart rate comes to 198bpm but i can get above but i can't sustain it so i go with the 198bpm, if i was to work out by 220 - (age) then that gives me 188bpm not very accurate but a good way to start with. now i work at above 90% of this heart rate 178.2bpm this being my threshold, now i can do up and over intervals 3bpm or more above this and below and 60% for recoveries half the duration, or even set duration's of time above this now this method should improve the buffering system when you come to call upon it.

    now comes into play the cadence metre, if we say you ride 52x17 on slopes with a slow cadence of 50-55rpm for muscle tension intervals, or intervals where you are doing decents where you try to maxout on your cadence it all makes the training session that little more intersting since now you can see what improvements your making rather than noting that at some point you are hitting 30mph for ----- and you never can really clock the duration of time that you are there for.... so for 1 hours riding the only data you have is it took set hours my max speed was and the average speed was over said miles.

    you now get something to do other than just pedal during the time between making it a little more interesting whilst your training, this is where you can form some kind of structure to your training sessions, this is where you will see the real improvements. being shorter and higher intensity of training with a little more for the mind. if you have a little extra money and you want to take your training sessions to the next level where you can see the difference in power that you are generating then you should have a word with mr ric_stern who will probably have some great ideas or powertap products that he could interest you in if you have that kind of money to spare, but i guess it really depends on how serious you are about cycling.

    i'd have one on mine but there to expensive for me!:mad:

    its okey i know what you mean, its just that i choose 90/100rpm since my intended cadence is 98rpm average... i'll worry about speed later in the year :rolleyes: you forgot to mention warm down accordingly cause its equally as important >>waves finger <<!
     
  12. in.10.city

    in.10.city New Member

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    Just didn't seem like billybob1992002 was a high RPM spinner.. are you billybob1992002 ? If not, starting out with high RPMs will load you up with lactate quick-quick ;)... different strokes for different folks ;) (literally) ...
     
  13. closesupport

    closesupport Banned

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    lol yes but thats the idea in training the more you get used to it the easier it is to work through ;) the better the cadence the greater the muscle endurance and that what he wishes to improve by the sound of his cry for help.

    thats the reason i picked such a small gear ratio for him to complete the 90/100rpm at.

    so to avoid the lactate generation, but to have him warm and his body at a steady state before training or competition begins, i never once suggested 90/100rpm in 53x14 where the muscle tension would most deffinately have him exhausted before a training session or competition other than that if that gear is to hard try something smaller 39 or so x 17 this will make the cadence easier to achieve and have him ready for action without causing to much lactacte. its not like he's trying to hit 200rpms in this ratio which would most certainly have his legs screeming for help whilst hopping about on his seat like a frog on a pogo stick ...lol

    not that getting to ride at 100 or above causes any problems, i often hit 170rpms over 1minute intervals but thats part of my interval training whilst doing decents. unless your like well old that doesn't include 47yrs young, then whatever is comfortable for you to complete your warmup session, if this is the case then please don't take offence, i only have one... :) i often presume that everyone is younger and fitter and better at this cycling thing than I am. ...... :eek: its only a hobby to me you see
     
  14. billybob1992002

    billybob1992002 New Member

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    ya i am young i am 19. i used to not spin very fast and would try to push higher gears when i first started but the top 3 guys on our team took me out to show me stuff and they said to spin faster but not the point of bouncing just keep a constant cadence going . but i am still confused about the heart rate stuff. so i want to be above my threshold(152 or somthing) or do i want to be below it
     
  15. closesupport

    closesupport Banned

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    where did you get your max heart rate from at the age of 19 you should be able to get it way way above that i had you down at around 40+ ;) when you said that was your max heart rate.

    right i'll try to clarify it for you firstly start with 220 - (age) this should give you 201 but since there is quite an need for power to be generated then you may need to complete an exercise stress test to get a more accurate result for your max heartrate, this can be completed quite easily if you have access to a trainer that offers you a power reading, start at 50watts and increase it by 25watts every one minute if your female then it should be in steps of 15watts over a 1 minute period by the time you reach total exhaustion then your heart rate should be way above what you stated.

    when you know this then you can start setting your intervals for the following rides.

    zones///%MHR ///Description ///////////////////////////Heart rate zones
    *********************************************************
    1 /////60-65% //// Easy riding, recovery training////////120Bpm - 130Bpm
    2 /////65-70% //// Endurance base training /////////////130Bpm - 140Bpm
    3 /////70-80% //// Aerobic capacity training/////////////140Bpm - 160Bpm
    4 /////80-85% //// lactate threshold training////////////160Bpm - 170Bpm
    5 /////86+%////// Maximum aerobic training,////////////172Bpm and above
    ///////////////////////Increasing V02max//////////////////////////////////////////
    6 /////89 -95% ////Speed training above aerobic////////178Bpm - 190Bpm
    ///////////////////////threshold////////////////////////////////////////////////////
    7///// 94-100%/// Anerobic Sprint intervals/////////////188Bpm - 201bpm


    now you can see that there is some kind of structure that can be created now to build a training session if you intend on racing then it would be wise to consider that your going to be racing at between 82 and 89% for pace judgement purposes. this is why the up and over intervals are a must. thats why your buddies recommended that you do some fast pedalling sessions since this is whats going to bring up your heart rate if you haven't got the power to bring it up in larger gears.
     
  16. billybob1992002

    billybob1992002 New Member

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    well in our health class we did the heart rate thing. we did 220 minus age then minus the resting heart rate times .75 for the intensity plus our resting heart rate. and i am a male so. so i want to build my endurance up and strength up. do i want to be above my lactic threshold. one of my friends who is a class A racer said that i need to do intervals and that will help alot but i don't know what they consist of is it just sprinting or just working really hard and keeping a high speed for like 5 mins to start and 5 mins off
     
  17. closesupport

    closesupport Banned

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    if you look at the description of zone 2 then you'll see its endurance base training thats the intensity 65 -70% of your maximum heart rate, you should be working at the %MHR for each of the zones and same for each of the training zones you'll see a training %Mhr for different training procedures, you will also benefit from doing shorter higher intensity training this also will help you improve you endurance capability over a shorter given time.

    As for building strength then you will need to do some fast twitch intervals, or muscle tension intervals, if you can find a small climb that will enable you to turnover a larger gear 52x17 at a cadence of 55-60 then this will help you build the strength that you so desire.

    if you want to pracise fast pedalling you'll find it easier if you can find a slight hill that you can pedal extremly fast down this brings the power down and makes it that little easier to practise, then once you have got used to exceeding 140-150rpm then you can start doing accelleration on flats be they jump starts are rolling starts these are fast and at a much greater intensity but like you said you will firstly have to work on your base endurance but it doesn't have to be miles mile mile, but like i said you can do higher intensity workouts this also will help your muscles become accustomed to doing the work you require them to do. As for 5minutes it doesn't have to be, hold it for as long as you can, you'll find the better you become at it and the stronger your legs get that duration of time will increase anyhow! so don't limit yourself with time just do it for as long as you can hold it for either until your breathing becomes so erratic that you have to slow or until your legs feel like they have been deflated and try to recover for 5-10 minutes between these higher intensity workouts.

    Overload training can consist of many varying routines, but you have to be prepared to give your muscles and energy systems time to repare, overload training will no doubt make you stronger and faster. so your friends do have a valid point to why you may benefit from this type of training regime.
     
  18. dhk

    dhk New Member

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    Since you've only been training for two months, believe you've been trying to do too much, to soon. Don't try to train as hard as your teammates who've been racing for a season or more. You need to do what's appropriate for your current level, even if that means training by yourself. Here's my suggestion from now until early April:

    Priority 1: Recovery. Stay away from high-intensity training (above your lactate threshold) for at least the next two weeks. Keep your current weekly mileage, but just spin in an easy gear, maybe 39/17, at 90 rpm. (I count cadence by just counting the downstrokes on either leg for 15 seconds, then multiply by 4.)

    If you can't do the hills in your current gear without leg burning, standing and heavy breathing, skip them for now and just ride the flats.

    Priority 2: Add miles to your weekly long ride, maybe 5 miles/week, so your doing 45-50 miles (you need endurance first to finish the 45 mile race). Again, do these long endurance rides at a comfortable pace, keeping your cadence up so you can build aerobic capacity, not fry your leg muscles.

    Priority 3: Add some controlled intensity back in for the third week in March. Climb the hills at 80-90% of max effort, and back off when the leg pain gets heavy, or just turn around and spin home. On your long flatter ride, put in the same controlled intensity for a 10-20 minute interval in the middle of the long ride. When you feel the legs starting to burn, back off just a bit to stay right on the edge of lactate threshold.

    Priority 4: Taper the week before the event. Cut back the miles by 2/3. (If you're up to 90, only do 30 the week before). Keep the intensity sessions above, but don't raise them, and don't go all out....save that for the race. You want to come to the start line feeling strong and rested, not burnt out from overtraining. As the old coaches saying goes, it's better to be 10% undertrained rather than 1% overtrained.

    Priority 5: Relax and enjoy the event. Expect to learn a lot and have fun, but don't expect to keep up with guys that have been doing this for a season or two.

    Note, above are only my suggestions based on what you've written. The decision on how to prepare is yours. Good luck!
     
  19. closesupport

    closesupport Banned

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    steady state intervals

    the goal is to increase your lactate threshold on a relatively uninterupted road or trainer the terrain doesn't really matter as long as you are able to stay within zone 4. it is important to remain at the same intensity through out your entire ride, while climbing if you try to remain at 70-80rpm and on flat terrain 85-95rpm

    if your total ride time is 75minutes in zone 2 then try to perform 2 intervals of 20minutes in zone 4 with a recovery period of around 15minutes between each interval if you reffer back to the latter then you can recall your heart rate for that zone.

    monday 30-45 minutes in zone 1 steady easy spinning
    tuesday 30-45 minutes in zone 1 steady easy spinning
    wednesday 30-45minutes in zone 1 steady easy spinning
    thursday 2 hours in zone 2 with 3 power intervals
    friday 30-45 minutes in zone 1 steady easy spinning
    saturday ride over varied terrain
    sunday 2 hours endurance ride over hilly terrain reamainaing in zones 2-3 and keeping pace

    thats my week one then it just gets harder :D but dhk does have a point you should be resting or undergoing some light easy spinning sessions not trying to bang out the miles straight away and expecting to ride like a pro. and you should continue to do so at leaste every 4wks just to give your body chance to repair from the past few weeks hard training sessions.

    http://www.brianmac.demon.co.uk/articles/#hrms
    ********************************************
    http://www.brianmac.demon.co.uk/cycling/cyclingplan.htm
    http://www.brianmac.demon.co.uk/articles/scni1a4.htm
    http://www.brianmac.demon.co.uk/articles/scni5a10.htm
    http://www.brianmac.demon.co.uk/articles/scni7a2.htm
    ********************************************
     
  20. billybob1992002

    billybob1992002 New Member

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    so much information to comprehend. this is harder to understand than i thought i figured there would be a quick answer but o well i am learning alot.
     
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