Tires, how MUCH can they help?



Khelmick

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Jun 15, 2014
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A year into cycling i'm looking into a new set of tires. I'd love new wheels, but its rather hard to justify the cost after outfitting everything else the last year!

I'm looking at the Continental Grand Prix 4000S II 700c Road Tire, http://www.performancebike.com/bikes/Product_10052_10551_1168142_-1_400235__400235

So there is no silver bullet to get faster, besides better endurance and eating habits, but in your opinion how much of a difference can a new set of tires make? I'll be replacing standards factory tires.

Are we talking 1/2 a mile per hour faster, more, less? Thanks in advance!
 
Originally Posted by Khelmick
A year into cycling i'm looking into a new set of tires. I'd love new wheels, but its rather hard to justify the cost after outfitting everything else the last year!

I'm looking at the Continental Grand Prix 4000S II 700c Road Tire, http://www.performancebike.com/bikes/Product_10052_10551_1168142_-1_400235__400235

So there is no silver bullet to get faster, besides better endurance and eating habits, but in your opinion how much of a difference can a new set of tires make? I'll be replacing standards factory tires.

Are we talking 1/2 a mile per hour faster, more, less? Thanks in advance!
Well it depends on what you have now to some extent but I have never really explored the difference scientifically. New tires certainly feel better in comparison to worn tire and corner better. They are better at flat reduction but to calculate speed differential you would need a very controlled environment with no variables. Comparing MTB knobbies to road you can get about 2-3 miles and hour better but road tires( apples to apples), I have no idea. As stated new tires certainly make the ride more pleasurable and that in itself can make you faster .
 
I'm a total n00b to cycling... so I'll defer to what the knowledgeable people have to say. However, I'll pass along my personal experience. I've only been cycling since mid-March and am only at just shy of 1000 miles on my bike. I recently upgraded my Defy 2's wheels and tires. My main objective was just getting the PowerTap power meter but if you include that and the tires & tubes in the price of the wheel upgrade and you could say I spent 150% the cost of the bike on upgrading wheels and tires...... I wound up with a set of HED Belgiums with Conti 4000S IIs that weigh somewhere around half of what my Giant wheels and tires did and for ME I noticed ZERO difference in performance. Daily changes in wind, temperature, and conditioning make bigger impacts on my pace than my wheels and tires. The biggest advantage I got was a smoother and quieter ride. That hints at a performance gain but I didn't manage to measure any gain from telemetry.

Maybe since you've got some extra time & conditioning on me you'll notice a difference. I didn't.
 
Originally Posted by Bluman
I'm a total n00b to cycling... so I'll defer to what the knowledgeable people have to say. However, I'll pass along my personal experience. I've only been cycling since mid-March and am only at just shy of 1000 miles on my bike. I recently upgraded my Defy 2's wheels and tires. My main objective was just getting the PowerTap power meter but if you include that and the tires & tubes in the price of the wheel upgrade and you could say I spent 150% the cost of the bike on upgrading wheels and tires...... I wound up with a set of HED Belgiums with Conti 4000S IIs that weigh somewhere around half of what my Giant wheels and tires did and for ME I noticed ZERO difference in performance. Daily changes in wind, temperature, and conditioning make bigger impacts on my pace than my wheels and tires. The biggest advantage I got was a smoother and quieter ride. That hints at a performance gain but I didn't manage to measure any gain from telemetry.

Maybe since you've got some extra time & conditioning on me you'll notice a difference. I didn't.
So you noticed a smoother ride? Sounds like you noticed something.

It's doubtful any performance difference would be noticed on the road, but since you now have a power meter you can conduct some objective test involving a speedometer on a set of rollers thus eliminating wind, gradients, barometric pressure and other nonsense.

Chart what speed equates to what measure of power output and let us know. Don't have the patience? That's ok, it's already been done by other inquiring minds and such a chart looks something like this:




+/-5W is no big deal, my own output probably fluctuates within that margin on a day to day basis, but 10 or 20 watts is another story. That's 1 or 2 mph.

Supple tires inflated to the correct pressure should ideally roll faster, and beat you up less, than inadequately or over inflated less supple tires. Tire performance is always a trade-off, faster rolling/better gripping vs. longer lasting/less overall $$ spent.

If someone thinks some holy grail of performance can be found in a pair of tires they would be mistaken, however a rider who wants to maximize his potential "victory" factor considering all the hard work he or she has put in all winter, may choose to not cut corners when it comes to equipment choices. Beyond conditioning, a bike and rider that rolls fast is a combination of factors: quality tires inflated to the correct pressure, smooth bearings, a drive train that is properly adjusted and well lubricated, and a rider position that optimizes aerodynamics, comfort, and power output.

Like Phillipe Gilbert says... a good heart and lungs, it's maybe 50%, the rest is all the little things, 1% here, 1% there. I think it's a little more than 50% personally, but who am I to argue with Gilbert.

Btw, HED Belgiums... outstanding!
 
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Originally Posted by Khelmick
I'm looking at the Continental Grand Prix 4000S II 700c Road Tire, http://www.performancebike.com/bikes/Product_10052_10551_1168142_-1_400235__400235

Are we talking 1/2 a mile per hour faster, more, less? Thanks in advance!

Got these ones too and used them to replace a pair of wired Specialized Espoir 700x25.

First ride out of the shop I did 2 min less then my 1 year old PR on a segment recorded on Strava which is around 30 min overall.


Zero flats, except when I went for a ride in the city where I managed to have a double flat at the same time. It was night so I probably run over something.


500km on them so far more or less (maybe 1000 actually) and no cuts at all. There is some white dust coming out of them but the papers say that this is normal due to the compound or something.


Chose them over Vittoria Open Corsa. The Vittoria ones are aparently a bit "nicer" and "faster" but much more fragile. (Haven't tried them, they are about 20 euro more too).


Now I am just trying to avoid knocking them on the sidewall much on the cycling path markers when overtaking babies. (I h@te them!
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Nice fast solid tire, feels good too (as in rumble damping). Grip in the wet... Well, they slip some times but grip later after a few cm's slide. They don't grip so well on sludge and marble tiles.
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Originally Posted by Khelmick

So there is no silver bullet to get faster, besides better endurance and eating habits, but in your opinion how much of a difference can a new set of tires make? I'll be replacing standards factory tires.
Are we talking 1/2 a mile per hour faster, more, less? Thanks in advance!
Depending on what tires you are upgrading from, possibly. But probably not much more unless your old tires were real bricks, or had some low quality puncture resistance breaker. You will probably not notice a difference in speed, but you might feel a difference in ride quality. It may be subtle, like slamming the door on a new Mercedes compared with slamming the door on an old Chevy. Some folks only notice both doors end up shut, but others know exactly of what I speak.
 
Originally Posted by danfoz
So you noticed a smoother ride? Sounds like you noticed something.
I suppose I wasn't very clear. I meant I didn't notice any speed difference. The ride and feel of the Conti's is night & day better than what came with my Defy. I think they're worth the money just for that... but outside of a TT or maybe a 10 mile stretch of uninterrupted bike trail, I cant find a difference in pace. Maybe with conditioning and consistency they make more of a difference but my 12mi daily, morning loop sees ~1mph in average speed variation on a day-to-day basis and I saw no change in the weekly average pace either.
 
Originally Posted by Bluman
I suppose I wasn't very clear. I meant I didn't notice any speed difference. The ride and feel of the Conti's is night & day better than what came with my Defy. I think they're worth the money just for that... but outside of a TT or maybe a 10 mile stretch of uninterrupted bike trail, I cant find a difference in pace. Maybe with conditioning and consistency they make more of a difference but my 12mi daily, morning loop sees ~1mph in average speed variation on a day-to-day basis and I saw no change in the weekly average pace either.

In that statement I was being facetious. And you are correct. I think even with the addition of some seriously deep section wheels, which could actually garnish significant gains in a TT, one would be hard pressed to notice any difference in speed. On paper one would probably be faster, and one may certainly feel faster, but for the average Joe out doing his daily miles one can only justify such an expense to oneself (the only justification ever needed of course). But that is the main reason I like pricey (supple) tires, I like the way they feel. it's certainly not the 78/100ths of a second faster they make me on my 3.5 mile loop ;)
 
Equally good or better tire for a fraction of the cost. Wiggle has had these for dirt cheap for quite some time now. I'm about to stock up. Knock on wood, in spite of the nice ride and great grip, I've also rode these over some "roads" (read: horrible sharp gravel trails, rocky unpaved roads I was worried would break my fork, and even sharp crushed seashells) that would have been better suited to a CX bike with knobby tires and I have yet to get a puncture. Surely I'll have one tonight though after saying that.

http://www.wiggle.com/michelin-pro4-service-course-folding-road-tire/
 
Originally Posted by AyeYo
Equally good or better tire for a fraction of the cost. Wiggle has had these for dirt cheap for quite some time now. I'm about to stock up. Knock on wood, in spite of the nice ride and great grip, I've also rode these over some "roads" (read: horrible sharp gravel trails, rocky unpaved roads I was worried would break my fork, and even sharp crushed seashells) that would have been better suited to a CX bike with knobby tires and I have yet to get a puncture. Surely I'll have one tonight though after saying that.

http://www.wiggle.com/michelin-pro4-service-course-folding-road-tire/
I've heard good things bout the new SC's. All the speed and grip of the older version but more robust. Once my 4-seasons wear out I'm going for a pair. A note of caution - the 25's apparently measure closer to 27-28, so if you have tight clearance between chainstays it's recommended to go with the 23's, and especially if you have tight clearance between the tire and seattube as the raised center can cause a rubbing problem. That's just what I've read btw (but I did see a pic where the tire was literally in contact with the seattube).
 
That's accurate. The 23's also fit more like 25's (I have 23's installed). Only complaint so far is that they are VERY tight on initial install. Easily took me 2-3x as long as a normal tire install.
 
Originally Posted by San Remo GT
I got Vittoria open corsa evo CX's. They are cheap but they seem decent enough.
As retail prices go they are not that cheap, maybe you got a good deal. imo they are some of the best race clinchers on the market. Great grip, very supple and the best road feel of any tire especially when paired with latex innies. Very prone to cuts though and I can wear a set completely down in less than 750 miles.
 
Originally Posted by danfoz
Very prone to cuts though and I can wear a set completely down in less than 750 miles.

They are about 20euro more then the GP4000s. Maybe one of the most expensive clinchers.

about 1000 km on the GP4000s and they look brand new! (Except some sidewall knocks due to baby-dodging the bike path, h@te them!
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The grip on marble street tiles though is non-existent.
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New spill!
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danfoz said:
As retail prices go they are not that cheap, maybe you got a good deal. imo they are some of the best race clinchers on the market. Great grip, very supple and the best road feel of any tire especially when paired with latex innies. Very prone to cuts though and I can wear a set completely down in less than 750 miles.
Performance was blowing them out for a while for a about $40.00.I use them on my, 'It's going to be a fast and I might have a problem keeping up' wheels. I am not sure they are worth the retail price. I have a buddy selling Pro 4 for $34.00, which makes it hard to go with the Vitoria.
 
Once you're into this class of 200g high performance clinchers, the best becomes a matter of personal preference. Maybe choose the Contis for durability, the Vittorias for ride and handling, and the Michelins for . . .I don't know, because they're on clearance and they're so damned light. You can tell my least favorite is the Michelins, but that's personal, not definitive.
 
The Michelins might have dropped a notch in my book after this weekend. After being issue free for about 800 miles (could have done that on the Vittorias) they got a small cut in the front tire after a ride Friday. No big deal. Well after a Saturday and a Sunday ride, both tires look like they got in a sword fight and lost, badly. Still no actual punctures, but one of the cuts in the rear is large enough that it will need to be replaced ASAP. Hopefully it lasts long enough for Wiggle to send me some more tires on the very slow boat from England. Not sure if I can actually blame the tires though. It's not their fault that CT has no idea what a street sweeper is and our roads are litered with gravel, sticks, rocks, and glass like some sort of linear garbage dump.
 
I was into a debris field of glass before I knew it yesterday. Must have been a wreck or maybe some rednecks got into a beer bottle fight. Either way my Michelins made it through. The glass particles were small and scattered all over so maybe the small size spared me. That section I ride has a wide shoulder and is a mine field of trash.
 
I'm going to be the spoiler here. First off, if you have money to blow then get the expensive Conti tires, otherwise you can get equally as good tires for a lot less money like the Vittoria Rubino Pro Slick on sale for $30 at Performance Bike; or the Michelin Krylion Carbon tire on sale at the same place for $35; or the 4ZA Stratos on sale for only $21 at Nashbar. All those tires I mentioned have very high reviews too. In fact in my experience the tires I mentioned have more durable sidewalls then the Conti's who are known for their fragile sidewalls.