Todays Ride (OT)

Discussion in 'UK and Europe' started by MSeries, Dec 11, 2004.

  1. MSeries

    MSeries Guest

    Today I have been mostly riding chairlifts. I am in Colorado you see and
    managed to get the weekend off to go skiing. Great snowfall on Thursday,
    blue sky and sunshine today. Superb. I was surprised to see many people
    wearing helmets though. Why ? Ten years ago when I last skiied in Vail
    hardly anyone used a helmet, has their skiing become more dangerous in
    that time ? Mine hasn't. Tomorrow I might ski at Winter Park or
    Breckenridge. I might take a look at Oh my gawd highway again too.
     
    Tags:


  2. mark

    mark Guest

    "MSeries" wrote ...
    > Today I have been mostly riding chairlifts. I am in Colorado you see and
    > managed to get the weekend off to go skiing. Great snowfall on Thursday,
    > blue sky and sunshine today. Superb. I was surprised to see many people
    > wearing helmets though. Why ? Ten years ago when I last skiied in Vail
    > hardly anyone used a helmet, has their skiing become more dangerous in
    > that time ? Mine hasn't. Tomorrow I might ski at Winter Park or
    > Breckenridge. I might take a look at Oh my gawd highway again too.


    Helmets started to get popular after a rash of skiing fatalities a few years
    back. They're also popular with the half pipe crowd, where there just might
    be some justification for the silly things.

    In common with cycling:

    1.There are plenty of ways to seriously injure/kill yourself while skiing
    that a helmet won't prevent (a few years back a helmeted skier slammed into
    a tree at Copper Mountain, dying of a ruptured aorta).

    2. They just might give the wearer a false sense of security (as in the
    aforementioned fatality).

    3. There are circumstances where they are potentially useful (racing, half
    pipe, small children on crowded slopes), but they have acquired the status
    of Vitally Important Equipment by people looking for a solution to imaginary
    dangers.

    4. The primary benefit seems to be to the people who sell the things.

    My favorite sight is the helmeted ski instructor teaching a class of
    non-helmeted never-evers on a secluded beginners slope.

    If you go to Breckenridge, definitely try to ski the Peak 8 area.
    --
    mark
     
  3. Ningi

    Ningi Guest

    MSeries wrote:
    > Today I have been mostly riding chairlifts. I am in Colorado you see and
    > managed to get the weekend off to go skiing. Great snowfall on Thursday,
    > blue sky and sunshine today. Superb. I was surprised to see many people
    > wearing helmets though. Why ? Ten years ago when I last skiied in Vail
    > hardly anyone used a helmet, has their skiing become more dangerous in
    > that time ? Mine hasn't. Tomorrow I might ski at Winter Park or
    > Breckenridge. I might take a look at Oh my gawd highway again too.


    I can think of a couple of reasons why helmets might make more sense for
    skiing than cycling.

    1) Your head getting too hot is unlikely to be a problem. A helmet is
    going to provide a nice, padded, windproof cover, which you want anyway
    when it's cold.

    2) For snowboarding, where catching an edge is much more likely to
    result in you banging your head. It certainly seemed that way when I
    had a lesson in Colorado earlier this year. I

    Apart from the above, I see no need at all. However, I also see fewer
    downsides that for cycling, such as - there are no cars on the slopes.
    Only stationary trees which I've mostly managed to avoid over the
    years by aiming for the white bit, rather than the green bit.


    Pete
     
  4. Tony Raven

    Tony Raven Guest

    Ningi wrote:
    >
    > I can think of a couple of reasons why helmets might make more sense for
    > skiing than cycling.
    >


    They are also hard shell close fitting helmets that cover most of the
    head, not flimsy bits of polystyrene perched on top.

    CPSC report that there are 16,000 skiing head injuries a year in the USA
    due to hitting trees, rocks, hard packed snow and other people. What I
    don't know is whether the quality of the research behind using them is
    any better or worse than for bicycle helmets because I've not researched it.

    At least one of the medical researchers in the area seems to have some
    appreciation of the issues we discuss here though

    "Ski and snowboard as if you weren’t wearing a helmet. All skiers and
    boarders should ride responsibly and in control at all times. Helmets
    may help prevent head injuries in the event of certain types of
    accidents, but are of little help in high-speed, head-on injuries and
    offer no protection against neck and other types of injuries."

    Tony
     
  5. MSeries

    MSeries Guest

    mark wrote:
    :
    >
    > 1.There are plenty of ways to seriously injure/kill yourself while skiing
    > that a helmet won't prevent (a few years back a helmeted skier slammed into
    > a tree at Copper Mountain, dying of a ruptured aorta).

    ..

    snip, snip

    >
    > If you go to Breckenridge, definitely try to ski the Peak 8 area.


    Went to Copper Mountain today, its one of the easiest big resorts to get
    to from Aurora, I did ski at Breckridge last time I skiied in Co. which
    was 1994, I can't remember much about it though.
     
  6. MSeries

    MSeries Guest

    Tony Raven wrote:
    > Ningi wrote:
    >
    >>
    >> I can think of a couple of reasons why helmets might make more sense
    >> for skiing than cycling.
    >>

    >
    > They are also hard shell close fitting helmets that cover most of the
    > head, not flimsy bits of polystyrene perched on top.
    >
    > CPSC report that there are 16,000 skiing head injuries a year in the USA
    > due to hitting trees, rocks, hard packed snow and other people. What I
    > don't know is whether the quality of the research behind using them is
    > any better or worse than for bicycle helmets because I've not researched
    > it.
    >
    > At least one of the medical researchers in the area seems to have some
    > appreciation of the issues we discuss here though
    >
    > "Ski and snowboard as if you weren’t wearing a helmet. All skiers and
    > boarders should ride responsibly and in control at all times. Helmets
    > may help prevent head injuries in the event of certain types of
    > accidents, but are of little help in high-speed, head-on injuries and
    > offer no protection against neck and other types of injuries."
    >
    > Tony
    >
    >


    I have fallen whilst on skis and snowboards and so far not had any
    serious injuries, always finished the run and skiied for the rest of the
    day.

    If you are not stupid, ski on runs that are within your capabilities,
    keep your eye open for others you will probably be safe. If you fear
    you'll hit a tree, keep away from them, they will not chase you !!! The
    slopes this weekend were very quiet, these people would crap themselves
    if they skiied in France with the crowds there. Alot of the people are
    not teenagers powered by peer pressure, they are fully grown and I
    presume experienced adult skiiers. I would wager $5 that few of these
    folk have crashed in the last few years, yet they now think they are in
    danger ?

    Where will it all end ?
     
  7. mark

    mark Guest

    "MSeries" wrote
    > If you are not stupid, ski on runs that are within your capabilities,
    > keep your eye open for others you will probably be safe. If you fear
    > you'll hit a tree, keep away from them, they will not chase you !!! The
    > slopes this weekend were very quiet, these people would crap themselves
    > if they skiied in France with the crowds there. Alot of the people are
    > not teenagers powered by peer pressure, they are fully grown and I
    > presume experienced adult skiiers. I would wager $5 that few of these
    > folk have crashed in the last few years, yet they now think they are in
    > danger ?
    >
    > Where will it all end ?


    A lot of "experienced adult skiers" think they are in danger because of
    other skiers, not because they themselves are poor or reckless skiers. Here
    in Colorado there have been a number of fatalities and serious injuries in
    the last few years caused by skier collisions. In most cases, a
    reckless/inept skier ran into a skier who was minding his or her own
    business and skiing carefully, injuring or killing the skier who was skiing
    sensibly. Had you picked up the local newspaper while you were at Copper
    today, you would have seen a series of articles on this subject, describing
    repeated instances of the scenario I just described.

    I myself am becoming more and more ambivalent about the whole helmet issue.
    I've become more and more inclined to cycle without a helmet under certain
    circumstances, and I think I'm much more realistic about the limitations of
    a helmet when I do wear one. I tried skiing in a helmet a few times and
    didn't like it, but I can certainly understand why some people would choose
    to ski or cycle in a helmet.

    I agree that, in skiing as in cycling, a lot of people place too much blind
    faith in helmets. I also accept that we Americans seem to be leading the
    worldwide trend towards trying to wrap everyone in cotton wool and protect
    everyone from their own stupidity. However, the adults you saw at Copper are
    probably more worried about the skiers/snowboarders around them than about
    their own inability to ski sensibly.

    I'm glad you enjoyed Copper. Excellent terrain, well laid out, and yes, it
    is a lot easier to reach than the other summit County resorts.
    --
    mark
     
  8. MSeries

    MSeries Guest

    mark wrote:
    > "MSeries" wrote
    >
    >>If you are not stupid, ski on runs that are within your capabilities,
    >>keep your eye open for others you will probably be safe. If you fear
    >>you'll hit a tree, keep away from them, they will not chase you !!! The
    >>slopes this weekend were very quiet, these people would crap themselves
    >>if they skiied in France with the crowds there. Alot of the people are
    >>not teenagers powered by peer pressure, they are fully grown and I
    >>presume experienced adult skiiers. I would wager $5 that few of these
    >>folk have crashed in the last few years, yet they now think they are in
    >>danger ?
    >>
    >>Where will it all end ?

    >
    >
    > A lot of "experienced adult skiers" think they are in danger because of
    > other skiers, not because they themselves are poor or reckless skiers. Here
    > in Colorado there have been a number of fatalities and serious injuries in
    > the last few years caused by skier collisions. In most cases, a
    > reckless/inept skier ran into a skier who was minding his or her own
    > business and skiing carefully, injuring or killing the skier who was skiing
    > sensibly. Had you picked up the local newspaper while you were at Copper
    > today, you would have seen a series of articles on this subject, describing
    > repeated instances of the scenario I just described.


    Of course I understand that this does happen and probably always has.


    >
    > I myself am becoming more and more ambivalent about the whole helmet issue.
    > I've become more and more inclined to cycle without a helmet under certain
    > circumstances, and I think I'm much more realistic about the limitations of
    > a helmet when I do wear one. I tried skiing in a helmet a few times and
    > didn't like it, but I can certainly understand why some people would choose
    > to ski or cycle in a helmet.


    I don't think I'd like to ski with a crash helmet on, for the same
    reasons I choose not to use my bike helmet. When it gets uncomfortable
    theres nowhere to put it and anyway I don't actually think I need one.

    >
    > I agree that, in skiing as in cycling, a lot of people place too much blind
    > faith in helmets. I also accept that we Americans seem to be leading the
    > worldwide trend towards trying to wrap everyone in cotton wool and protect
    > everyone from their own stupidity. However, the adults you saw at Copper are
    > probably more worried about the skiers/snowboarders around them than about
    > their own inability to ski sensibly.
    >


    Which is surprising to me as the slopes this weekend anyway were so
    empty, often I was the only person on a run.


    > I'm glad you enjoyed Copper. Excellent terrain, well laid out, and yes, it
    > is a lot easier to reach than the other summit County resorts.



    First time I was there in 1994 it snowed all day and visibility was very
    poor, seems most Americans prefer to drink hot chocolate when its
    snowing rather than ski. Mad dogs and Englishmen :)
     
  9. mark

    mark Guest

    "MSeries" wrote ...
    > mark wrote:
    > > I'm glad you enjoyed Copper. Excellent terrain, well laid out, and yes,

    it
    > > is a lot easier to reach than the other summit County resorts.

    >
    >
    > First time I was there in 1994 it snowed all day and visibility was very
    > poor, seems most Americans prefer to drink hot chocolate when its
    > snowing rather than ski. Mad dogs and Englishmen :)


    You're right, many Americans don't do well with bad weather. Some of my best
    skiing has been done in snowstorms, and during my ski instructor years some
    of my best classes were taught during snowstorms. The fact that everyone
    else was inside drinking hot chocolate meant that the slopes were empty!

    Cycling content: the bicycle path to Copper Mountain and onward to the top
    of Vail Pass is one of the most scenic paths I've ridden on. For those who
    disapprove of cycle paths there are plenty of excellent roads to cycle on,
    too.
    --
    mark
     
  10. MSeries

    MSeries Guest

    mark wrote:

    >
    > Cycling content: the bicycle path to Copper Mountain and onward to

    the top
    > of Vail Pass is one of the most scenic paths I've ridden on. For

    those who
    > disapprove of cycle paths there are plenty of excellent roads to

    cycle on,
    > too.
    > --
    > mark


    In 1990 I cycled from Denver to Grand Junction via Boulder, Idaho
    Springs, Loveland Pass, Leadville, Independence Pass, Aspen, Fremont
    Pass, Delta. Yesterday as I was driving along I-70 I was trying to see
    the road that we would have taken from Idaho Springs to Loveland. I
    know we did have to use I-70 for short stretches. I was thinking I'd
    like to re ride my route across the Rockies some day.
     
  11. mark

    mark Guest

    "MSeries" wrote...
    >
    > mark wrote:
    >
    > >
    > > Cycling content: the bicycle path to Copper Mountain and onward to

    > the top
    > > of Vail Pass is one of the most scenic paths I've ridden on. For

    > those who
    > > disapprove of cycle paths there are plenty of excellent roads to

    > cycle on,
    > > too.
    > > --
    > > mark

    >
    > In 1990 I cycled from Denver to Grand Junction via Boulder, Idaho
    > Springs, Loveland Pass, Leadville, Independence Pass, Aspen, Fremont
    > Pass, Delta. Yesterday as I was driving along I-70 I was trying to see
    > the road that we would have taken from Idaho Springs to Loveland. I
    > know we did have to use I-70 for short stretches. I was thinking I'd
    > like to re ride my route across the Rockies some day.
    >


    It's still there, although parts have been supplanted by bicycle paths. A
    good bit of the road can't really be seen from the Interstate. Part of US 6
    was washed out by a flood in the mid '90s, and instead of repairing it they
    relabelled it as a bike path. The steep bit from Georgetown to Silver Plume
    now has a bicycle path along side the Interstate. Was that there in 1990?
    You still have to cycle on I-70 from Baker to just before the Eisenhower
    tunnel, where the oversize vehicles and hazardous cargo trucks have to get
    off the Interstate and drive over Loveland Pass instead of going through the
    tunnel.

    I've seen the description of your trip on your website, it's quite good. You
    definitely took the long way around in a few places!
    --
    mark
     
  12. MSeries

    MSeries Guest

    mark wrote:

    >
    > It's still there, although parts have been supplanted by bicycle

    paths. A
    > good bit of the road can't really be seen from the Interstate. Part

    of US 6
    > was washed out by a flood in the mid '90s, and instead of repairing

    it they
    > relabelled it as a bike path. The steep bit from Georgetown to Silver

    Plume
    > now has a bicycle path along side the Interstate. Was that there in

    1990?
    > You still have to cycle on I-70 from Baker to just before the

    Eisenhower
    > tunnel, where the oversize vehicles and hazardous cargo trucks have

    to get
    > off the Interstate and drive over Loveland Pass instead of going

    through the
    > tunnel.
    >
    > I've seen the description of your trip on your website, it's quite

    good. You
    > definitely took the long way around in a few places!
    > --
    > mark


    I can't remember much of the ride to be honest, only the highs and lows
    ! I do recall riding on I-70 as we asked a State Trooper if we could.
    It fealt safer than on other roads as we had a 10ft wide should to
    ourselves. Also I remember a sheer rock face on my right hand side. I
    remember Loveland Pass very well as I didn't really want to climb it
    that day, I wanted to spend the night east of the tunnel but there was
    little in the way of camping or accommodations so we pressed on. It was
    our first pass over 10,000ft and I was not looking forward to it. I
    didn't know that it was not steep and not very long until we summitted
    it. The weather was overcast and cool, ideal for riding up hills, and
    the descent was fast and very cold though.

    We chose our route through the Rockies specifically to visit Boulder
    then to cross Independence Pass since it is so high, then we aimed for
    Grand Junction to pick up the California Zephyr. A direct route wasn't
    really the point of this part of the trip, the Rockies, Independence
    Pass in particular, were on our agenda as a must, along with Niagara
    Falls, Nashville and Solvang.
     
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