Todays Standard on RJLs

Discussion in 'UK and Europe' started by permajeo, Nov 22, 2006.

  1. permajeo

    permajeo New Member

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    In the London Evening Standard today. 130 motorists a day caught jumping red lights. That amounts to 47,932 a year (given points and fined), 43,500 by cameras and the rest by Police who happened to be there.

    There is a breakdown borough by borough and a statement from Jenny Jones butn I couldn't find a web link and don't fancy typing it out word for word.

    I did think that as no cyclist was caught and fined I'd apply similar "h*mts save lives" logic to the stats and offer that that means cyclists don't jump lights.

    Hurrah!!

    Please apply irony and sarcasm before replying.

    P
     
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  2. permajeo

    permajeo New Member

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    YES I know RLJs not RJLs. D* mn fingers.

    P
     
  3. wafflycat

    wafflycat Guest

    "permajeo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:p[email protected]
    >
    > In the London Evening Standard today. 130 motorists a day caught jumping
    > red lights. That amounts to 47,932 a year (given points and fined),
    > 43,500 by cameras and the rest by Police who happened to be there.
    >



    My personal bike mechanic happened to be in London yesterday - in motorist
    and pedestrian mode rather than cyclist mode. He tells me that whilst he did
    indeed see many a cycling RLJ'er he also saw a lot of motorised RLJ'ers too.
    He says that the motoring ones were doing it at far greater speed than the
    pedal cycling ones... and a lot of motorcyclists using the ASLs meant for
    pedal cyclists.
     
  4. permajeo

    permajeo New Member

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    ASLs are an interesting one. I started on bikes went to mobikes then cars back to mobikes and back to bikes.

    I did all the training available (ie more than required) for the time and ASLs never featured. I'm not sure when ASLs appeared but recently a driving instructor friend reckoned I'd need a refresher to pass the driving test, on theory anyway.

    Is using ASLs just ignorance of what they're for? Or "MUST BE IN FRONT" driving?

    P
     
  5. > Is using ASLs just ignorance of what they're for? Or "MUST BE IN FRONT"
    > driving?


    Most have green tarmac, a solid white line before them and a picture of a
    bike in the middle. Shouldn't be too hard to work out what they're for.
     
  6. permajeo

    permajeo New Member

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    Truebut assumes thinking and paying attention is involved. And it is a picture on a flattened bike, perhaps more of an invitation ;-)

    P

     
  7. Alex

    Alex Guest

    wafflycat wrote:
    > My personal bike mechanic happened to be in London yesterday - in motorist
    > and pedestrian mode rather than cyclist mode. He tells me that whilst he did
    > indeed see many a cycling RLJ'er he also saw a lot of motorised RLJ'ers too.
    > He says that the motoring ones were doing it at far greater speed than the
    > pedal cycling ones...


    That's because cars tend to go faster than bikes. No great surprise
    there.

    The major difference is that most motorised RLJers go through within 4
    seconds of the light changing to red, and they usually accelerate to do
    this. It's rare for a car RLJer to go through after 4 or 5 seconds but
    it does still happen.

    I'm sure the motorised RLJers justify their dangerous actions by saying
    that there is a 3 or 4 second delay between the traffic light turning
    red and the green man appearing for the pedestrian crossing or another
    traffic light to go green.

    Most Cycle RLJers act as if the lights don't even exist and are
    therefore more likely to meet a pedestrian on the crossing, or other
    traffic the other side of the light.

    And before anyone says anything, I'm not defending anyone here. All
    RLJers are idiots, regardless of their mode of transport. I choose not
    to RLJ (in 99% of circumstances). I admin that I used to RLJ, but then
    I made a decision not to any more.

    And if I see someone about to RLJ I usually half-step out to force them
    to slam on their brakes. It usually gets the point across.

    -Alex
     
  8. PUSHERBOT

    PUSHERBOT Guest

    On 22 Nov 2006 09:14:16 -0800, "Alex" <[email protected]> wrote:


    >And if I see someone about to RLJ I usually half-step out to force them
    >to slam on their brakes. It usually gets the point across.
    >
    >-Alex


    And you're calling RLJ's idiots!

    I hope you don't cause an accident doing that.
     
  9. wafflycat

    wafflycat Guest

    "Alex" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >


    >
    > The major difference is that most motorised RLJers go through within 4
    > seconds of the light changing to red, and they usually accelerate to do
    > this. It's rare for a car RLJer to go through after 4 or 5 seconds but
    > it does still happen.
    >


    Not as rare as you think perhaps - they are the motorised ones (plural -
    lots of them) noticed by my personal bike mechanic yesterday.
     
  10. Alex

    Alex Guest

    PUSHERBOT wrote:
    > On 22 Nov 2006 09:14:16 -0800, "Alex" <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >And if I see someone about to RLJ I usually half-step out to force them
    > >to slam on their brakes. It usually gets the point across.

    >
    > And you're calling RLJ's idiots!
    >
    > I hope you don't cause an accident doing that.


    So do I.

    Tell me, what's the difference between me doing the above, and a blind
    person starting to cross when they hear the beeping noises that tell
    them it's ok to cross?

    -Alex
     
  11. John Snuggs

    John Snuggs Guest

    Alex wrote:

    > wafflycat wrote:
    > > My personal bike mechanic happened to be in London yesterday - in motorist
    > > and pedestrian mode rather than cyclist mode. He tells me that whilst he did
    > > indeed see many a cycling RLJ'er he also saw a lot of motorised RLJ'ers too.
    > > He says that the motoring ones were doing it at far greater speed than the
    > > pedal cycling ones...

    >
    > That's because cars tend to go faster than bikes. No great surprise
    > there.


    In London? In the rush hour?

    Both cars and bikes roll along at 15-30mph in the London commute. Most
    RLJing cyclists I see slow almost to a stop or even stop, look around,
    then proceed carefully.

    Most RLJing drivers speed up if they see a green light in front of them
    for more than 10secs, and speed up even more if the light's orange.

    I came across =one of these last night - I was riding at at least 20mph
    towards a green light. Some ignorant little tw*t in a 205 decided to
    make sure he got through the light before it changed and, just before I
    reached the junction, to accelerate, overtake and then turn left in
    front of me without signalling. And he was talking on his mobile.

    Needless to say, not only was the light still green when I got there,
    but I then overtook him prior to turning right at the next junction by
    getting away faster when the oncoming traffic waited for us :)
     
  12. David Hansen

    David Hansen Guest

    On Thu, 23 Nov 2006 03:42:26 +1100 someone who may be permajeo
    <[email protected]> wrote this:-

    >ASLs are an interesting one. I started on bikes went to mobikes then
    >cars back to mobikes and back to bikes.
    >
    >I did all the training available (ie more than required) for the time
    >and ASLs never featured. I'm not sure when ASLs appeared but recently
    >a driving instructor friend reckoned I'd need a refresher to pass the
    >driving test, on theory anyway.


    Keeping up to date with the Highway Code is a condition of holding a
    driving licence. http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/16.htm#154



    --
    David Hansen, Edinburgh
    I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
    http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54
     
  13. spindrift

    spindrift Guest

    wafflycat wrote:
    > "Alex" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    > >

    >
    > >
    > > The major difference is that most motorised RLJers go through within 4
    > > seconds of the light changing to red, and they usually accelerate to do
    > > this. It's rare for a car RLJer to go through after 4 or 5 seconds but
    > > it does still happen.
    > >

    >
    > Not as rare as you think perhaps - they are the motorised ones (plural -
    > lots of them) noticed by my personal bike mechanic yesterday.


    40 people a year killed by cars ignoring zebra and pedestrian
    crossings. The roads are lawless, those figures above remember are for
    those motorists who are caught, not all the drivers whose need to catch
    up with the traffic jam overrides other road user's right not to be
    smashed into.
     
  14. John Snuggs wrote:
    > Both cars and bikes roll along at 15-30mph in the London commute. Most
    > RLJing cyclists I see slow almost to a stop or even stop, look around,
    > then proceed carefully.


    Which reminds me of a question that occured to me the other day: for
    that (large, or at any rate vocal) subset of the group who do not go
    through red lights, would you do so if it were legal? Assume for the
    sake of argument that this did not significantly change the behaviour of
    motorized traffic (for whom it remains illegal)


    -dan

    --
    http://www.coruskate.net/
     
  15. Marc

    Marc Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    [email protected]*_turn_up_the_heat_to_reply*.com says...
    >
    > > Is using ASLs just ignorance of what they're for? Or "MUST BE IN FRONT"
    > > driving?

    >
    > Most have green tarmac, a solid white line before them and a picture of a
    > bike in the middle. Shouldn't be too hard to work out what they're for.
    >
    >

    The line cannot be solid, ot it would be illegal for a cyclist to cross
    it. The line will have a break in it, where the cycle lane leads into
    it. It shoudn't be too hard for you to work out how to get into the ASL
    area...
     
  16. Marc

    Marc Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    [email protected] says...
    > > And you're calling RLJ's idiots!
    > >
    > > I hope you don't cause an accident doing that.

    >
    > So do I.
    >
    > Tell me, what's the difference between me doing the above, and a blind
    > person starting to cross when they hear the beeping noises that tell
    > them it's ok to cross?
    >


    Intent
     
  17. permajeo

    permajeo New Member

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    I'm not going to disagree. This was, in part, the point my friend was making. More that "does anyone outside the professional road user(97) actually do that?"

    Point being that many people don't know the recent rules having passed their test ages ago.



    (97) Driving (all media) instructors; Road saftey officers(?); Police; Add/delete as appropriate

    P


     
  18. Alex

    Alex Guest

    Daniel Barlow wrote:
    > John Snuggs wrote:
    > > Both cars and bikes roll along at 15-30mph in the London commute. Most
    > > RLJing cyclists I see slow almost to a stop or even stop, look around,
    > > then proceed carefully.

    >
    > Which reminds me of a question that occured to me the other day: for
    > that (large, or at any rate vocal) subset of the group who do not go
    > through red lights, would you do so if it were legal? Assume for the
    > sake of argument that this did not significantly change the behaviour of
    > motorized traffic (for whom it remains illegal)


    Depends on the situation.

    If it was safe to do so then I would.

    If it wasn't safe (not just me, but the other road users and the
    pedestrians) then I wouldn't.

    But then everyone has different ideas on what "safe" means.

    To some RLJers even flying through a relatively busy pedestrian
    crossing is "safe" because they haven't hit anyone doing it yet.

    -Alex
     
  19. Alex

    Alex Guest

    John Snuggs wrote:
    > Alex wrote:
    >
    > > wafflycat wrote:
    > > > My personal bike mechanic happened to be in London yesterday - in motorist
    > > > and pedestrian mode rather than cyclist mode. He tells me that whilst he did
    > > > indeed see many a cycling RLJ'er he also saw a lot of motorised RLJ'ers too.
    > > > He says that the motoring ones were doing it at far greater speed than the
    > > > pedal cycling ones...

    > >
    > > That's because cars tend to go faster than bikes. No great surprise
    > > there.

    >
    > In London? In the rush hour?


    Yep, there are many places where cars can get up to 30mph in central
    London, even during rush hour. Not many cyclists can cruise along at
    30mph. In some bits cars are lucky to average 4mph whilst bikes can go
    much faster than that.

    > Both cars and bikes roll along at 15-30mph in the London commute. Most
    > RLJing cyclists I see slow almost to a stop or even stop, look around,
    > then proceed carefully.


    Yup, and although I consider that better than just ignoring the lights
    completely, they still shouldn't be doing it. The law doesn't say "Red
    lights. They don't mean stop, they just mean slow down a bit and be
    careful."

    -Alex
     
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