Too many flats......wider tires needed?



J

Jay Adair

Guest
I ride a Vision V45 with 1" tires (20" Schwalbe Stelvio & 26" Continental
Grand Prix) pumped to around 100# most of the time. I've had flats from
small rocks, hitting irregularities in concrete, etc. and I am to the point
I am ready to sacrifice speed for a less harsh ride and fewer flats.

My question: How wide can I go....or should I go? I've got Magura
hydraulic brakes and don't want to replace that just now.....just squeeze in
a wider tire on the same rims.

Thanks for any insight.

Jay

(Maybe I should just go back to my mountain bike)
 
T

Tom Sherman

Guest
Jay Adair wrote:

> I ride a Vision V45 with 1" tires (20" Schwalbe Stelvio & 26" Continental
> Grand Prix) pumped to around 100# most of the time. I've had flats from
> small rocks, hitting irregularities in concrete, etc. and I am to the point
> I am ready to sacrifice speed for a less harsh ride and fewer flats.
>
> My question: How wide can I go....or should I go? I've got Magura
> hydraulic brakes and don't want to replace that just now.....just squeeze in
> a wider tire on the same rims.
>
> Thanks for any insight.
>
> Jay
>
> (Maybe I should just go back to my mountain bike)


Jay,

The tires you are using are rather lightweight and relatively fragile. I
would personally use a 44-406 Avocet Fasgrip Freestyle in the front and
a 37-559 Avocet Fasgrip City on the back. These will have comparable
rolling resistance at a lower pressure, and will provide a much better
ride. I would also expect fewer flats with the Avocet tires.

The Avocets will decrease performance somewhat due to their greater
weight and frontal area. However, performance may actually improve on
rough surfaces due to less rider fatigue and rolling resistance, as the
bicycle will be accelerated less in the vertical plane over bumps due to
the more compliant tires.

<http://www.avocet.com/tirepages/carbon12_specs.html>.

The mountain bike will be a pain in the ass (literally) compared to the
Vision seat. ;)

--
Tom Sherman – Quad City Area
 
D

db

Guest
Jay,

My experience mirrors Tom's.

I had Stelvios front and rear on my R40. Very fast, but constant pinch
flats.
For the MS150 this year, I put on Primo Comet 1.50's front and rear. (My
daughter calls 'em monster truck tires.) Although I could recognize an
increase in resistance (lessened when I adjusted inflation to compensate for
my weight), the bike was very stable over choppy pavement and much much more
assured on a slightly wet, greasy descent that had previously been very
scary.

I don't know what's involved in relieving your brakes to actually install
the wheel on the fork, but the Vision Alex rims handle the 1.50's with no
problem at all.

Good luck, Enjoy

Doug

3 R40's
Soon 1 R82
1 Rotator Tiger
1 Quetzal C24
1 Bike E
1 Avatar 2000
Help me before I buy again


----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Sherman" <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent
Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2004 9:18 AM
Subject: Re: Too many flats......wider tires needed?


> Jay Adair wrote:
>
> > I ride a Vision V45 with 1" tires (20" Schwalbe Stelvio & 26"

Continental
> > Grand Prix) pumped to around 100# most of the time. I've had flats from
> > small rocks, hitting irregularities in concrete, etc. and I am to the

point
> > I am ready to sacrifice speed for a less harsh ride and fewer flats.
> >
> > My question: How wide can I go....or should I go? I've got Magura
> > hydraulic brakes and don't want to replace that just now.....just

squeeze in
> > a wider tire on the same rims.
> >
> > Thanks for any insight.
> >
> > Jay
> >
> > (Maybe I should just go back to my mountain bike)

>
> Jay,
>
> The tires you are using are rather lightweight and relatively fragile. I
> would personally use a 44-406 Avocet Fasgrip Freestyle in the front and
> a 37-559 Avocet Fasgrip City on the back. These will have comparable
> rolling resistance at a lower pressure, and will provide a much better
> ride. I would also expect fewer flats with the Avocet tires.
>
> The Avocets will decrease performance somewhat due to their greater
> weight and frontal area. However, performance may actually improve on
> rough surfaces due to less rider fatigue and rolling resistance, as the
> bicycle will be accelerated less in the vertical plane over bumps due to
> the more compliant tires.
>
> <http://www.avocet.com/tirepages/carbon12_specs.html>.
>
> The mountain bike will be a pain in the ass (literally) compared to the
> Vision seat. ;)
>
> --
> Tom Sherman - Quad City Area
>


"Jay Adair" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> I ride a Vision V45 with 1" tires (20" Schwalbe Stelvio & 26" Continental
> Grand Prix) pumped to around 100# most of the time. I've had flats from
> small rocks, hitting irregularities in concrete, etc. and I am to the

point
> I am ready to sacrifice speed for a less harsh ride and fewer flats.
>
> My question: How wide can I go....or should I go? I've got Magura
> hydraulic brakes and don't want to replace that just now.....just squeeze

in
> a wider tire on the same rims.
>
> Thanks for any insight.
>
> Jay
>
> (Maybe I should just go back to my mountain bike)
>
>
 
T

Tom Sherman

Guest
db wrote:

> ...
> 3 R40's
> Soon 1 R82
> 1 Rotator Tiger
> 1 Quetzal C24
> 1 Bike E
> 1 Avatar 2000
> Help me before I buy again


Doug,

I notice that these are all single track HPVs. I recommend that you look
into getting a trike - there are a lot of really good designs currently
available.

Helpfully,

--
Tom Sherman – Quad City Area
 
J

Jay Adair

Guest
"Tom Sherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Jay Adair wrote:
>
> > I ride a Vision V45 with 1" tires (20" Schwalbe Stelvio & 26"

Continental
> > Grand Prix) pumped to around 100# most of the time. I've had flats from
> > small rocks, hitting irregularities in concrete, etc. and I am to the

point
> > I am ready to sacrifice speed for a less harsh ride and fewer flats.
> >
> > My question: How wide can I go....or should I go? I've got Magura
> > hydraulic brakes and don't want to replace that just now.....just

squeeze in
> > a wider tire on the same rims.
> >
> > Thanks for any insight.
> >
> > Jay
> >
> > (Maybe I should just go back to my mountain bike)

>
> Jay,
>
> The tires you are using are rather lightweight and relatively fragile. I
> would personally use a 44-406 Avocet Fasgrip Freestyle in the front and
> a 37-559 Avocet Fasgrip City on the back. These will have comparable
> rolling resistance at a lower pressure, and will provide a much better
> ride. I would also expect fewer flats with the Avocet tires.
>
> The Avocets will decrease performance somewhat due to their greater
> weight and frontal area. However, performance may actually improve on
> rough surfaces due to less rider fatigue and rolling resistance, as the
> bicycle will be accelerated less in the vertical plane over bumps due to
> the more compliant tires.
>
> <http://www.avocet.com/tirepages/carbon12_specs.html>.
>
> The mountain bike will be a pain in the ass (literally) compared to the
> Vision seat. ;)
>
> --
> Tom Sherman – Quad City Area



Tom,

Thanks for the advice. You're correct about the seat....the Vision is like
riding a Lazy Boy.

Jay
 
D

db

Guest
Tom,

I've enjoyed your posts over the 4 years I've suffered from recumbent-itis.
You have the insight only available to a bentbuilder.

I live in Virginia, near Richmond. Virginia's idea of a bike-friendly road
(at least in this area - the beach and DC are different) is a bike route
sign every mile or so that's on the other side of the 2-foot ditch. I can't
help feeling like a trike would be too wide to survive. The Rotator, which
is an engineering marvel in my opinion, stays mostly in the garage because
of its low seat height and visibility.

I'm buying the R82 so my 9-year-old can get involved in the longer rides my
wife and daughter now join me on. We have gotten very interested in the
MS150 (awesome in Central VA this year) and nearby metric centuries. I had
thought about getting him a trike, but the local roads and drivers just
scare me...

I know that my facination with 'bent engineering can only really be
satisfied with a torch and some tubing... maybe soon.

Be well,

Doug
"Tom Sherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> db wrote:
>
> > ...
> > 3 R40's
> > Soon 1 R82
> > 1 Rotator Tiger
> > 1 Quetzal C24
> > 1 Bike E
> > 1 Avatar 2000
> > Help me before I buy again

>
> Doug,
>
> I notice that these are all single track HPVs. I recommend that you look
> into getting a trike - there are a lot of really good designs currently
> available.
>
> Helpfully,
>
> --
> Tom Sherman – Quad City Area
>
 
Tom Sherman <[email protected]> wrote:

>I notice that these are all single track HPVs. I recommend that you look
>into getting a trike - there are a lot of really good designs currently
>available.
>


Yep. I ride a trice classic. I have recently been stripping down my
mountain bikes (no way I will ever sit on those things again). One of
then has nice new city slick tires (1.75). I am going to put that one
on the back wheel and see what it's like. I figure it costs noting and
if there are problems I will just put the one back.

After all - I ride this for comfort so a little extra can't hurt. I am
"of generous frame" and any extra help I can give can't be a bad
thing.

But then I also have a mega range rear mech to fit - and a roalmagig
(or whatever it's called) and my wife is in hospital after a car
crashed into her bike so time is a little short. I'll post once it's
done and say how it went.

Everso
 
M

Melanie

Guest
Jay,

I had the same problem on my Lightning Stealth, and switched from
those very same tires to kevlar belted Primo comets. They have some
tread on them. I got them because I frequently rode in a campus area
where there were unfortunately lots of pieces of broken glass around.
Once I made the move, I never had a flat again, and that was four or
more years ago.

I recently got a new bike, and it came with-- those stelvio that you
are having such a time with!

Unfortunately, I chose Grand Prix to replace them and they are getting
installed today. So I hope I didn't make the wrong selection.

All the best,

Melanie
 
P

Peter

Guest
"Jay Adair" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> I ride a Vision V45 with 1" tires (20" Schwalbe Stelvio & 26"
> Continental Grand Prix) pumped to around 100# most of the time. I've
> had flats from small rocks, hitting irregularities in concrete, etc.
> and I am to the point I am ready to sacrifice speed for a less harsh
> ride and fewer flats.
>
> My question: How wide can I go....or should I go? I've got Magura
> hydraulic brakes and don't want to replace that just now.....just
> squeeze in a wider tire on the same rims.
>
> Thanks for any insight.
>
> Jay
>
> (Maybe I should just go back to my mountain bike)
>
>


Jay,

Just to share an experience, FWIW. My new/used Stratus came with Stelvios
front and rear. I've flatted 5 times in 500 miles. So I'm done with the
Stelvios. Replacement candidates include the new narrower 26/20 x 1.25
inch Kenda Kwests (front and rear), and Tioga Comp Pool 20 x 1.75
front/Avocet FasGrip City K 26 x 1.5 rear. I've ordered both these combos
and will see which setup I prefer.

--
Peter

Anti-spam =
a) Remove NS_
b) Change the 2 zeroes to alpha O's
c) Change com to net
 
S

SouthBayBent

Guest
You may not have to go to a fat tire. If you are running "around 100#"
on a 406x28 Stelvio I think you are borderline underinflated. I
recommend keeping that tire at 120PSI and no less than 110PSI. The
Gp's I keep at 120PSI, no less than 110PSI. My experience with
Stelvios indicates that they cut easily, both on the tread and
sidewall. I have even had 2 of the folding 406X28 Stelvios have belts
separate internally causing visible warping of the tire. On the rear I
have stopped using the Stelvios. I have had good look with a heavier
Conti Grand Prix 559X25 (26X1). I ran a 559X32 Primo racer for 2600
miles with only one flat and retired it after 4 flats in the last 200
miles for a total of 2800 miles. On a T-Bone I am running a Michelin
Ironman 700x25 (110PSI)for 1500 miles and only one flat. In the last
6,000 miles I have had 8 flats, I think. I have never considered going
to fat tires because of flats. Try a different skinny tire and keep it
inflated to the recommended max PSI. Good luck.

I am looking for a different 406X28 or 406 X25 tire. The question I
have is: What other 406X25 or 406X28 tires are people using?
Downhills and Tailwinds,
Rob

> "Jay Adair" <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
> > I ride a Vision V45 with 1" tires (20" Schwalbe Stelvio & 26"
> > Continental Grand Prix) pumped to around 100# most of the time. I've
> > had flats from small rocks, hitting irregularities in concrete, etc.
> > and I am to the point I am ready to sacrifice speed for a less harsh
> > ride and fewer flats.
> >
> > My question: How wide can I go....or should I go? I've got Magura
> > hydraulic brakes and don't want to replace that just now.....just
> > squeeze in a wider tire on the same rims.
> >
> > Thanks for any insight.
> >
> > Jay
> >
> > (Maybe I should just go back to my mountain bike)
> >
> >

>
> Jay,
>
> Just to share an experience, FWIW. My new/used Stratus came with Stelvios
> front and rear. I've flatted 5 times in 500 miles. So I'm done with the
> Stelvios. Replacement candidates include the new narrower 26/20 x 1.25
> inch Kenda Kwests (front and rear), and Tioga Comp Pool 20 x 1.75
> front/Avocet FasGrip City K 26 x 1.5 rear. I've ordered both these combos
> and will see which setup I prefer.
 
D

Dave Larrington

Guest
SouthBayBent wrote:
> Try a different skinny tire and keep it
> inflated to the recommended max PSI. Good
> luck.


Agreed. I had fairly good performance from a Hutchinson Top Slick (which
had the additional advantage of being half the price of a GP or Stelvio),
until I inadvertantly banged it up to 140 psi after fixing its one and only
flat. I'm currently running a Specialized Fat Boy on that bike, which also
seems to work well.

For racing, though, Stelvios are the only way to go. A pity the new super
lightweight Dahon ones are only available with a yellow stripe on them :-(

--

Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
===========================================================
Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
http://www.bhpc.org.uk/
===========================================================
 
R

Robert L. Bass

Guest
> ... and my wife is in hospital after a car
> crashed into her bike so time is a little short.


How awful! Hope she gets well real soon. Will send up a prayer for her.

Regards,
Robert
 
R

Robert L. Bass

Guest
>> How awful! Hope she gets well real soon.
>> Will send up a prayer for her.


> Well she is out of hospital now so it's a start.
> Problem is with all the housework, taking care
> of her and the whole "work thing" I haven't
> had a ride in 2 weeks now. Man is it going to
> hurt if/when I get back on the road.


You both need to get back to riding ASAP. I made the mistake of holding off
after my accident and it set me back to square one. Now I'm starting all
over again.

BTW, insurance should cover the cost of home health care and a housekeeper
while she recovers. Speak to your attorney (I assume you're suing the
driver, no?) about this. In most places it will be considered a reasonable
expense directly attributable to the injury.

> I say if because she is not at all happy with me
> riding anything less than a small but heavily
> armored tank at the moment...


My wife feels that way even when I'm driving a car. That could possibly be
due to the way I drive, of course.

> I have a week off soon and that will be crunch
> time I think. I'll have some time available to
> ride so we'll see what she's like then.


Sounds good but try to avoid using words like "crunch" in the same sentence
as bike for a while. :^)

> Final touch of irony - it was our wedding anniversary
> last week....


That stinks. Will keep her in my prayers. What's her first name?

Regards,
Robert
 
R

Robert L. Bass

Guest
> Yeah I think so. Even the police told us to sue
> - said the other guy is 71 years old and "just
> didn't see her".


Living in Florida, there are two major hazards to cyclist. The first and
foremost danger is aggressive drivers, mostly from the northern states, who
seem to think they have a God given responsibility to make sure cyclists
stay off of "their" roads (the ones built with *my* tax money). The second
group are almost as dangerous -- snowbirds. These creatures average 80+
years old and can neither see, hear not respond in less than about 30
seconds to stimuli such as thr front and rear lights on my Vivo, the *loud*
air horn, shouted warnings and the sound of bicycle frames crunching under
the bumper.

That said, the only time I was actually struck by a motor vehicle it was
being driven by a teenage girl. I got off easy -- a few nasty scrapes and a
sore arm for a few weeks. If she had been going a couple of miles an hour
faster I'd have gone on to the eternal greenway. :)

>> Will keep her in my prayers. What's her first name?

>
> Her name is Kat - I'm Kevin by the way.


OK, hi Kevin. All the best.