Too Much Money?

Discussion in 'Bike buying advice' started by sylvia_louise, Mar 28, 2015.

  1. sylvia_louise

    sylvia_louise New Member

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    I was looking over the new bikes offered for 2015. I came across the AR FRD. I must admit the bike is a beauty, yet to pay $12,999.00 sounds extreme! I, myself, love my used flea market find. I call her "old red". I know we paid a pretty penny for my daughter's Italian bike (forgot the name), but not close to the tune of almost thirteen thousand dollars. As a new member to this forum, who is a casual bike rider, I am not acquainted with the more serious bikers here, yet. I wonder, if anyone is considering an invest close to this price range?

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  2. Weatherby

    Weatherby Well-Known Member

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    Why do some people obsess with how others spend their money.

    I am sure that there are cyclists including forum members who have many bikes like the one pictured. Personally, I would rather have a custom frame and picking the exact components desired, which is not terribly cost effective. I wouldn't buy the bike in the picture because I like mechanical shifters in general and SRAM in particular

    The Felt AR and Cervelo S3 are the fastest road bikes out there. I would like to have one would opt for the frameset at $2500 and transferring parts from another bike. I am actually considering such a purchase and swapping parts over. The Cervelo S3 or Felt AR3 with Ultegra Di are much less than half the price of the Dura Ace and FRD carbon frame pictured. Probably just as good for 99.99% of riders. But if you can afford that extra miniscule level of performance, why not?
     
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  3. sylvia_louise

    sylvia_louise New Member

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    The price of the AR FRD merely took me by surprise. So, I was not actually obsessing over the how much other people spend their money, just a casual comment of inquiry. As someone who is a casual bike rider, this is a whole new subject area for me. Although, I am interested to learn more from the avid cyclists. As I mentioned, my daughter is a more intense when it comes to bike riding. I think, as I learn more, it will help me relate more to her interest in this subject. So the bottom line, for me, right now, my learning curve needs improvement in this area. Thanks for the reply, and information about swapping out parts. I must admit, the carbon frame concept is quite fascinating to me.
     
  4. Weatherby

    Weatherby Well-Known Member

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    The difference between a $700 and say a Shimano 105 equipped $2100 bike is huge whereas the performance difference between the $2000 bike and $12000 is more nominal assuming both are properly fit to the rider.

    Tires are the place to spend the money. I am amazed to see $12,000 bikes shode with lousy tires.

    GL. Hope this helps.
     
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  5. ABNPFDR

    ABNPFDR Member

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    Not tires, wheels. Tires are the rubber part. Most $12,000 bikes come with race caliber wheels One of the reasons even upper tier bikes tend to come with wheelsets that typically get regulated to the trainer is wheel selection is so personalized. Manufacturers put on low end wheels to not put off a buyer.

    I have a bike that's up there in price. To put a fine point on it, I have two bikes that are up in that range, I race triathlons and put a lot of fast miles on my road bikes. That and I work in a shop so not only are those bikes sales tools, but I don't pay retail prices, though honestly it's still not exactly cheap. I've sold a lot of bikes, wheels shoes, helmets, bars and whatnot because people know me, see what I am using. I'm not even a tru podium contender (since I am not a runner) I crush the bike. A lot of conversations start at the shop with "I remember you, you blew by me at..."

    Honestly, a 2500 Ultegra equipped carbon bike with a reasonable wheel upgrade (Mavic Ksyriums) is all most people need. Honestly, anything you spend above that point has a diminishing return. I enjoy riding my $3000 road bike as much as my considerably more expensive one.

    PS, add in Garmins, power meters, $400 shoes, wahoo or computrainer... It just keeps going up and up.
     
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  6. sylvia_louise

    sylvia_louise New Member

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    Yep, this does help clarify for me. Your explanation makes total sense. I can see how, if you are going to invest, it is wise to understand the differences between performance levels.

    You, also, bring up a good point about making sure to buy the right size bike. It sounds kind of like a no-brainer, but in one's excitement of just getting into cycling (me), this important step could be overlooked. Well, maybe not so much, if shopping at a professional bike shop compared to a department store or online.

    I am not sure what you mean about the tires being less then desirable. I do know my daughter gets so frustrated with the wheels on her bike. She has gone through countless tubes, but she tells me it's the darn tires that drive her crazy!

    Thanks for taking the time to reply.
     
  7. kana_marie

    kana_marie Member

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    I had a 2005 Saturn ion. It had 6 miles on it when I drove it off the lot. It only cost 1000$ more than that bike. I've seen rv's with full size kitchens that looked like a small house inside. Those were actually cheaper than that bike. If I had that kind of money to spend I would probably buy a new, nice couple thousand dollar bike, and an then spend the rest on an tv.
     
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  8. gavinfree

    gavinfree Member

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    A Saturn Ion? Why would you want to do that to yourself? ;) Every person that I've ever known who owned a Saturn wound up hating it, and I've never known someone who owned more than one Saturn. Most of them were older than 2005, though.

    Anyways, a $12,000 bike seems worthless because you can likely get the same performance and style at a lower price, but I'm not going to criticize someone for how they spend their money on a bike.
     
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  9. Weatherby

    Weatherby Well-Known Member

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    I am not sure what you mean.

    My point was rather simple. I am surprised to see riders actually on $12,000 machines that have cheap, slow tires. Slow tires (CRR = 0.0065 vs 0.003) can slow you more than a good set of wheels (the carbon, stainless, titanium and aluminum part) will speed you up. Poor tire selection can leave 15-35 watts on the table. A finer point relates to the linear nature of tire losses compared to aerodynamic losses. You get the benefit of fast wheels most significantly when going fast whereas lower fricational losses of tires benefit you thru the whole speed range during a ride or event. Wind tunnel data on wheels is often at 50kph and therefore is misleading for most riders who if they are honest realize they ride more around 40kph and are not see

    To OP: Your daughter needs to learn not to ride thru debris on the road as much as she can because that is where the glass and other junk lives. Intersections are the worst areas. Also it should become second nature to see and not ride thru glass. These shards attach to the tire and slowly work their way thru the rubber and then into the tube causing a leak. Periodically wiping the spinning tire off with her glove will dislodge glass shards. If I unavoidably run thru glass? I stop and pick out the shards.....obviously not practical on a group ride but worth the little bit of time on a solo ride. Checking the tires after each ride and picking any little pieces of glass out also is what I do. Every ride. Keeping tires inflated to the right pressure prevents flats too. I have not had a flat in almost 9,000 miles and I run latex tubes and rather delicate fairly wide tires for comfort and speed. Not running tires when the cords show also helps.....
     
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  10. maydog

    maydog Well-Known Member

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    I ride with someone who purchased that very Felt AR FRD last year. He is a strong cyclist and I am sure the bike is his prized possession.

    The bike is great and I am glad someone is supporting these companies.
     
  11. sylvia_louise

    sylvia_louise New Member

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    Okay. First off, I rather enjoyed this informative discussion on the difference between tires and wheels. This is exactly why I joined this forum.

    Oh, I hear you on the riding through debris. I think sometimes, it gets unavoidable when traffic is busy and the bike lane gets trashed. I have seen some people develop crazy road rage at bikers in the road. Pretty sad state of mind, if you ask me. I give you kudos for stopping, when you can, to pick up some of this trash/glass. I naively could not figure out how the tube became flat, but makes sense how it works it way in.

    Thanks for the explanation on the upkeep after a bike ride. I will pass the information along. I think she needs a good reminder on the importance of maintenance after a bike ride and air pressure. I can not count the times, she has gotten stranded miles from the nearest bike shop to get a replacement tube. I wonder, if she buys latex. I'll have to ask. Got to say pretty impressive 9,000 miles and no flat! I think she is always running into the curbs too hard also, not sure if that is giving her flats or bending her tire rims causing the flats or both.

    I am not sure what you mean by "Not running tires when the cords show"

    Again, thanks for the reply!
     
  12. sylvia_louise

    sylvia_louise New Member

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    Aha, I was curious, if anyone out there had or knew someone that had one of these bikes. I have already learned quite a bit (starting from such little knowledge) on the pros and cons of investing into a bike and the maintenance involved. Yeah, I have a long way to go, but truthfully I was just curious, if anyone on this forum had this bike. Well, it is good he likes his bike, that is the bottom line. We all have different needs and desires when it comes to our bikes.
     
  13. sylvia_louise

    sylvia_louise New Member

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    Well, it is nice that you get a discount working at a bike shop. I hear you about how the cost involves way more then a bike. I understand, it is that way with any recreational activity/sport/hobby. I guess, what I have gathered, thus far, is the general consciousness is that there are certain parts of a bike worth investing more in and the key is to really do your research before buying. It is good that when customers come into your bike shop you can talk the talk and walk the walk. Unfortunately, I have been in my fair share of bike shops and either the help did not know what they were talking about or needed some kind of attitude adjustment. Actually, walked out of a few, cause as the saying goes, "aint nobody got time for that"!
     
  14. sylvia_louise

    sylvia_louise New Member

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    Well, I would like to where you could actually find a vehicle with only 6 miles on it for that price. lol But seriously, I think I worded my original post wrong. What is extreme or a huge amount of money to invest in my world or as mother buying for a daughter, is much different than a serious cyclist investing in their bike. Being new to this forum, I was really trying to find out if this bike was worth the cost and why or why not. I appreciate everyone's feedback. And to take this a step further, although off subject, to spend thousands of dollars on a television would have me spinning my wheels. I have had to hold my husband back in this area, but for others it would be worth the investment, but I would still like to know why or why not. Obviously, he has not convinced me on the value of spending more for a TV.
     
  15. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

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    There is absolutely no justification for the pricetags hanging on high-end bikes. Chinese labor is dirt cheap and if that isn't cheap enough try Campagnolo's Romanian Roma labor force.

    It's all a glorious Arms Race after a couple/three grand worth of dead presidents. Like the gentleman above stated. And it's the truth.

    Now, please don't get me wrong! I'm a Capitalist with a capital 'C'. I'm all for stimulating the economy, blowing away the dentist and his arm-candy-after-the-divorce at the Tuesday night Worlds and a firm believer that life is too short to drink cheap whiskey and ride fugly bikes.

    But...when $13K will buy a man a bike with a 4-cylinder fire-breathing 160 HP liter gasoline burning engine on a fly-weight aerodynamic crotch rocket that will launch me from zero to nearer my God to Thee in under 10 seconds...I got to ask...

    What.
    The.
    Fvck?

    And THAT bike has tires on it that no one is going scoff at. At least no one on this side of the guard rail, they ain't.

    Go ahead.

    I dare ANYONE to justify the price of that Felt.

    Well, comrades. This is America last time I checked and we don't got to justify squat! If that thing puts a smile on your face or if you're only out to one-up that dentist you go right on ahead! No justification required. Just a stack of C-Notes thick enough to choke a horse.

    Only please...
    For the love of all that is Holy...spec it with Super Record or Super Record EPS.

    Ordering it with shimaNO only proves you can't buy good taste!
     
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  16. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

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    Ok...tongue pulled out of cheek.

    Quote by SL:
    "I was really trying to find out if this bike was worth the cost and why or why not."

    Worth? That's subjective, of course. If judged by material and labor costs, absolutely not.
    If evaluated by other, much more subjective attributes that mean MUCH more or much less to individuals considering the purchase....yes.

    The many why's and why not's differ. They are all well known and discussed in depth with almost every significant (read: expensive) purchase we make in life.

    The worth or value assigned to objects by individuals will certainly vary wildly. A $7,000 Rolex will not 'tell time' as accurately as a $50 Casio. Judging the Rolex as a chronometer is to miss the point by the proverbial mile.

    "Worth the cost?"...misses the point. The $13K cost of admission can be totally 'worth it' to even a mediocre cyclist or 'not worth it' to an experienced cyclist of considerable skill even if both have a pile of money in the bank or both are flat broke.
     
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  17. sylvia_louise

    sylvia_louise New Member

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    OMG I had walked away from my computer for a moment and was just about to sign off when I read your two responses, which by the way I quite enjoyed. Got to say you get right to the point you want to make. I can respect that. Of course, a couple of differences between you and me is you know what you are talking about when it comes to bikes and you have been on this forum much longer then me. I am kind of walking a thin line of looking like a fool, which I have to admit is not a comfortable feeling.

    Oh, you got me on the whole subjective aspect, that is true. I will check out the thread on "expensive"

    Thanks for the reply.
     
  18. oldbobcat

    oldbobcat Well-Known Member

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    Top-drawer carbon frame, carbon wheels, carbon cockpit, and Dura-Ace Di2? Sure, it's worth every penny, to the rider who has enough pennies.

    Personally, my sweet spot is in the $4k range. And I never pay retail.
     
  19. shilpa123

    shilpa123 New Member

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    I think this bike looks amazing. I would definitely love to own it. Nut i do not think it s very easy to own it The price is just tthe way tooo much. I believe one should be careful also.
     
  20. Volnix

    Volnix Well-Known Member

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    But, but... They designed it with a 100euro FEM software program on a 200euro laptop! :D These things burn something like 2watts per hour! :D
     
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