too polite automobile drivers.

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by bob syr, Jun 6, 2008.

  1. bob syr

    bob syr Guest

    Hi Group - it's been a long time.

    Been riding bicycle about a year, less the winter. It's getting good;
    I'm getting better going up upgrades and riding in high gear more
    (more strength in legs). I plan on putting a couple of pannier
    baskets on the back and use the bike for grocery shopping. The store
    is about a mile away and the route has a few hills I can't quite make
    yet, but I will, I hope, before the month is out.

    Anyway, I've been having this problem with automobile drivers.

    Sometimes drivers think it's fun to blow their horn or make other
    noise when they pass. And there are others who "flip you the bird"
    for some reason I'm not generally aware of. Well, fortunately these
    drivers are in the minority. Annoying as these drivers may be, they
    are NOT the ones I'm having a problem with.

    Some . . in fact many . . auto drivers are overly polite, especially
    at 4-way stop signs. I should mention I'm an older guy, lower '60s,
    so maybe that's why they're doubly polite, and I'm grateful. I still
    sometimes have a problem starting to pedal from a full stop, so I like
    the intersection to be empty of traffic while I take off to cross on
    the bike. I'm happy to wait.

    Today this guy waved me to cross in front of him while other cars were
    stopped at the stop sign. Well, I did everything I could to indicate
    I wanted HIM to go first. I took my hands of the handle bar and
    folded my arms. That didn't work. I then started to fiddle with my
    gloves hoping he would go, but he didn't. I then DISMOUNTED and stood
    next to the bike. It became a kind of a grudge match. He insisted I
    cross in front of him so finally I let him win and walked my bike in
    front of his car and across the intersection.

    He had kids in the car with him, so maybe he was showing the kids how
    to be courteous to your elders and bike riders. Or maybe, as a car
    driver, he figured HE ought to be in charge of the roadways and direct
    all of us guest bicyclists as to how to proceed.

    This is becoming a real problem; I suppose I should be thankful that
    these folks and making an effort to be polite, but I am starting to
    dread approaching intersections with all-way stop signs. Is there
    some way we can advertise to auto drivers that their politeness is
    welcome, but let's not be ridiculous with it?

    Bob Syr
     
    Tags:


  2. Tom Keats

    Tom Keats Guest

    In article <[email protected]m>,
    bob syr <[email protected]> writes:
    >
    > Today this guy waved me to cross in front of him while other cars were
    > stopped at the stop sign. Well, I did everything I could to indicate
    > I wanted HIM to go first. I took my hands of the handle bar and
    > folded my arms. That didn't work. I then started to fiddle with my
    > gloves hoping he would go, but he didn't. I then DISMOUNTED and stood
    > next to the bike. It became a kind of a grudge match. He insisted I
    > cross in front of him so finally I let him win and walked my bike in
    > front of his car and across the intersection.
    >
    > He had kids in the car with him, so maybe he was showing the kids how
    > to be courteous to your elders and bike riders. Or maybe, as a car
    > driver, he figured HE ought to be in charge of the roadways and direct
    > all of us guest bicyclists as to how to proceed.
    >
    > This is becoming a real problem; I suppose I should be thankful that
    > these folks and making an effort to be polite, but I am starting to
    > dread approaching intersections with all-way stop signs. Is there
    > some way we can advertise to auto drivers that their politeness is
    > welcome, but let's not be ridiculous with it?


    When that happens to me, I just point to the stop sign
    I'm obeying. If that doesn't work, I just yell: "C'mon,
    moooove!" in such an imperative manner that they should
    get the idea. And if that doesn't work, then I resort to
    the histronics you describe, just to make 'em look like the
    idiots they are, to the rest of the traffic. When it comes
    down to that, just make a gesture of doffing whatever kind
    of hat you may be wearing and sweeping it underhand in their
    direction of travel, while muttering "Thank you very f'ing much"
    under your breath and giving them a forced smile, and wishing
    an edifying experience upon them.

    When the incident is over, get back on your bike and merrily
    resume riding.

    Y'see, when certain drivers do that, they're trying to demonstrate
    to all the other drivers around them about how cyclists are
    "in the way." Heck, when they sight you from miles back,
    they'll break the speed limit just to sidle up to you, and
    then suddenly pretend you're in their way.

    Whudda buncha stunned goofs upon whom the abbatoire treatment
    would have little if any effect. Sometimes we've gotta deal
    with some people as if they didn't have any brains, 'cuz in fact
    they ain't got none.

    That's the way she goes.


    cheers,
    Tom

    --
    Nothing is safe from me.
    I'm really at:
    tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca
     
  3. On Fri, 6 Jun 2008 20:57:40 -0700 (PDT) in rec.bicycles.misc, bob
    syr <[email protected]> wrote:

    > I still
    > sometimes have a problem starting to pedal from a full stop, so I like
    > the intersection to be empty of traffic while I take off to cross on
    > the bike.


    start in a lower gear! you should be spinning at 80-90 rpm,
    regardless of your actual speed. for hills, gear down and spin
    up. learn to use your gears to keep a constant cadence. having
    a speedometer that has a cadence sensor can help you do this.

    the reason is that you can have tremendous endurance using the
    long twitch muscles that you use when pedaling at a relatively
    high rpm. 85 to 90 rpm is optimal, and it also helps save your
    knees and knee tendons from injury.
     
  4. On Fri, 6 Jun 2008 20:57:40 -0700 (PDT) in rec.bicycles.misc, bob
    syr <[email protected]> wrote:

    > He had kids in the car with him, so maybe he was showing the kids how
    > to be courteous to your elders and bike riders. Or maybe, as a car
    > driver, he figured HE ought to be in charge of the roadways and direct
    > all of us guest bicyclists as to how to proceed.


    or maybe you actually had the right of way, and were failing to
    follow the traffic laws in exercising that right.

    the rule at 4 ways is that you yield to traffic on your right. if
    he was to your left, he was following the law and long
    established rules of the road, and you were being an obnoxious
    fool for flouting them.

    you should stop being a fraidy cat, and follow the proper rules
    of the road like any other vehicle, as the law requires.
     
  5. catzz66

    catzz66 Guest

    bob syr wrote:
    > ...
    >
    > This is becoming a real problem; I suppose I should be thankful that
    > these folks and making an effort to be polite, but I am starting to
    > dread approaching intersections with all-way stop signs. Is there
    > some way we can advertise to auto drivers that their politeness is
    > welcome, but let's not be ridiculous with it?
    >
    > Bob Syr


    When I first started riding, I was more rigid and would insist that
    motorists with the right of way drive on, but now I accept their
    generosity. Learn how to smile and give a friendly wave as you move on
    and it can become your default response. It doesn't make sense to me to
    do anything else. If someone is nice enough to wave me on, I
    acknowledge them with a smile and wave and then go.
     
  6. Jorg Lueke

    Jorg Lueke Guest

    On Jun 7, 2:18 am, [email protected] (Dennis P. Harris)
    wrote:
    >
    > the rule at 4 ways is that you yield to traffic on your right.


    Only if the vehicles arrive at the same time, otherwise it's first
    come first serve.
     
  7. Jorg Lueke

    Jorg Lueke Guest

    On Jun 6, 10:57 pm, bob syr <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > Some . . in fact many . . auto drivers are overly polite, especially
    > at 4-way stop signs. I should mention I'm an older guy, lower '60s,
    > so maybe that's why they're doubly polite, and I'm grateful. I still
    > sometimes have a problem starting to pedal from a full stop, so I like
    > the intersection to be empty of traffic while I take off to cross on
    > the bike. I'm happy to wait.
    >

    I wouldn't say many, I think more are overly polite than are total
    jerks though. When someone waves me through an intersection I just
    go.
     
  8. Pat

    Pat Guest


    >
    > or maybe you actually had the right of way, and were failing to
    > follow the traffic laws in exercising that right.
    >
    > the rule at 4 ways is that you yield to traffic on your right. if
    > he was to your left, he was following the law and long
    > established rules of the road, and you were being an obnoxious
    > fool for flouting them.
    >
    > you should stop being a fraidy cat, and follow the proper rules
    > of the road like any other vehicle, as the law requires.


    Hey! The OP is in his 60's, so the overwhelming chances are that he KNOWS
    the traffic rules! You are displaying an awful lot of obnoxiousness
    yourself.

    Pat in TX


    >
     
  9. Luke

    Luke Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, catzz66
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    > bob syr wrote:
    > > ...
    > >
    > > This is becoming a real problem; I suppose I should be thankful that
    > > these folks and making an effort to be polite, but I am starting to
    > > dread approaching intersections with all-way stop signs. Is there
    > > some way we can advertise to auto drivers that their politeness is
    > > welcome, but let's not be ridiculous with it?
    > >
    > > Bob Syr

    >
    > When I first started riding, I was more rigid and would insist that
    > motorists with the right of way drive on, but now I accept their
    > generosity. Learn how to smile and give a friendly wave as you move on
    > and it can become your default response. It doesn't make sense to me to
    > do anything else. If someone is nice enough to wave me on, I
    > acknowledge them with a smile and wave and then go.


    I agree.

    To the OP: Habituate yourself to timing your arrival at 4 way stops in
    order to let queued cars the opportunity to proceed prior to reaching
    the intersection, then rolling on through when the way is clear. That's
    definitely preferable to stopping and starting.

    And in the cases when you, the cyclist, and a car reach the
    intersection simultaneously I recommend you take the initiative. Be
    assertive: slow down but don't stop; make eye contact; signal with your
    hands your direction (left, right, or straight through) then, if your
    intent is acknowledged and the way is clear, roll on through.

    No it's not a complete stop but I find the operation, done correctly,
    speeds everyone's passage through a 4 way stop, and is rarely begrudged
    by motorists. What drivers often resent, rightly or not, is cyclists
    conveying ambiguity or unnecessarily delaying them.
     
  10. Bill Sornson

    Bill Sornson Guest

    Pat wrote:
    >> or maybe you actually had the right of way, and were failing to
    >> follow the traffic laws in exercising that right.
    >>
    >> the rule at 4 ways is that you yield to traffic on your right. if
    >> he was to your left, he was following the law and long
    >> established rules of the road, and you were being an obnoxious
    >> fool for flouting them.
    >>
    >> you should stop being a fraidy cat, and follow the proper rules
    >> of the road like any other vehicle, as the law requires.

    >
    > Hey! The OP is in his 60's, so the overwhelming chances are that he
    > KNOWS the traffic rules! You are displaying an awful lot of
    > obnoxiousness yourself.


    One might even call Dennis (attribution!) an "obnoxious fool". LOL
     
  11. Bill Sornson

    Bill Sornson Guest

    catzz66 wrote:
    > bob syr wrote:
    >> ...
    >>
    >> This is becoming a real problem; I suppose I should be thankful that
    >> these folks and making an effort to be polite, but I am starting to
    >> dread approaching intersections with all-way stop signs. Is there
    >> some way we can advertise to auto drivers that their politeness is
    >> welcome, but let's not be ridiculous with it?
    >>
    >> Bob Syr

    >
    > When I first started riding, I was more rigid and would insist that
    > motorists with the right of way drive on, but now I accept their
    > generosity. Learn how to smile and give a friendly wave as you move
    > on and it can become your default response. It doesn't make sense to
    > me to do anything else. If someone is nice enough to wave me on, I
    > acknowledge them with a smile and wave and then go.


    Not always a safe thing to do, however. Trouble is that not all drivers
    think alike, so one waving you thru might conflict with the next one (or one
    coming from a different direction). Best bet is to /generally/ follow
    standard traffic rules.
     
  12. Pat

    Pat Guest


    > And in the cases when you, the cyclist, and a car reach the
    > intersection simultaneously I recommend you take the initiative. Be
    > assertive: slow down but don't stop; make eye contact; signal with your
    > hands your direction (left, right, or straight through) then, if your
    > intent is acknowledged and the way is clear, roll on through.
    >
    > No it's not a complete stop but I find the operation, done correctly,
    > speeds everyone's passage through a 4 way stop, and is rarely begrudged
    > by motorists. What drivers often resent, rightly or not, is cyclists
    > conveying ambiguity or unnecessarily delaying them.


    What I think drivers resent is unpredictability. All traffic conventions
    such as signalling and yielding are based on predictable behaviors. My
    brother used to say, "Why should I use signals--I know where I'm going!"
    But, signals are so other people can predict your behavior, not guess at
    what will happen. And when a driver is unsure, he is likely to become
    resentful because he (rightly) thinks your behavior might put him at risk.

    Pat in TX
     
  13. Leo Lichtman

    Leo Lichtman Guest

    "After you, Alphonse." "No, after YOU" The dynamic I see here is each
    trying to be nice, and BOTH end up losing. And if one eventually decides to
    give in and go, there is a danger that the other do so also, at the same
    time. The driver of the car is well aware that this could be fatal to the
    cyclist, so is loathe to break the tie. The cyclist is well aware that this
    could be fatal to him, so he is also loathe to do so.

    The best way to avoid this is at the very beginning. If someone waves you
    on, the politest, safest and most efficient choice is to accept the
    courtesy. (Unless, of course, there are other cars contributing to the
    hazard, in which case, just point and smile.)
     
  14. Tom Keats

    Tom Keats Guest

    In article <070620081009185617%[email protected]>,
    Luke <[email protected]> writes:
    > In article <[email protected]>, catzz66
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >> bob syr wrote:
    >> > ...
    >> >
    >> > This is becoming a real problem; I suppose I should be thankful that
    >> > these folks and making an effort to be polite, but I am starting to
    >> > dread approaching intersections with all-way stop signs. Is there
    >> > some way we can advertise to auto drivers that their politeness is
    >> > welcome, but let's not be ridiculous with it?
    >> >
    >> > Bob Syr

    >>
    >> When I first started riding, I was more rigid and would insist that
    >> motorists with the right of way drive on, but now I accept their
    >> generosity. Learn how to smile and give a friendly wave as you move on
    >> and it can become your default response. It doesn't make sense to me to
    >> do anything else. If someone is nice enough to wave me on, I
    >> acknowledge them with a smile and wave and then go.

    >
    > I agree.
    >
    > To the OP: Habituate yourself to timing your arrival at 4 way stops in
    > order to let queued cars the opportunity to proceed prior to reaching
    > the intersection, then rolling on through when the way is clear. That's
    > definitely preferable to stopping and starting.
    >
    > And in the cases when you, the cyclist, and a car reach the
    > intersection simultaneously I recommend you take the initiative. Be
    > assertive: slow down but don't stop; make eye contact; signal with your
    > hands your direction (left, right, or straight through) then, if your
    > intent is acknowledged and the way is clear, roll on through.
    >
    > No it's not a complete stop but I find the operation, done correctly,
    > speeds everyone's passage through a 4 way stop, and is rarely begrudged
    > by motorists. What drivers often resent, rightly or not, is cyclists
    > conveying ambiguity or unnecessarily delaying them.


    No rider who follows ROW convention when there are other
    street/road users around should ever have to feel guilty.

    Holy mackerel! Just get in line and do the 4-way stop
    thing, like everybody else.

    It's just that easy.

    If somebody deigns to fsck-up traffic flow by either
    improperly yielding or stealing ROW, that's their prob,
    as they demonstrate their lack of social skills to the
    world. But we're civilized, sociable, and above all
    that nonsense, aren't we?


    cheers,
    Tom

    --
    Nothing is safe from me.
    I'm really at:
    tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca
     
  15. catzz66

    catzz66 Guest

    Bill Sornson wrote:
    > catzz66 wrote:
    >
    >>bob syr wrote:
    >>
    >>>...
    >>>
    >>>This is becoming a real problem; I suppose I should be thankful that
    >>>these folks and making an effort to be polite, but I am starting to
    >>>dread approaching intersections with all-way stop signs. Is there
    >>>some way we can advertise to auto drivers that their politeness is
    >>>welcome, but let's not be ridiculous with it?
    >>>
    >>>Bob Syr

    >>
    >>When I first started riding, I was more rigid and would insist that
    >>motorists with the right of way drive on, but now I accept their
    >>generosity. Learn how to smile and give a friendly wave as you move
    >>on and it can become your default response. It doesn't make sense to
    >>me to do anything else. If someone is nice enough to wave me on, I
    >>acknowledge them with a smile and wave and then go.

    >
    >
    > Not always a safe thing to do, however. Trouble is that not all drivers
    > think alike, so one waving you thru might conflict with the next one (or one
    > coming from a different direction). Best bet is to /generally/ follow
    > standard traffic rules.
    >
    >


    I agree with you about following traffic rules. I think it is important
    to be predictable and obey traffic signals and signage. We're talking
    about what happens when you do that and motorists make eye contact with
    you and wave you on in situations where it they would otherwise have the
    right of way.
     
  16. aquachimp

    aquachimp Guest

    On Jun 7, 5:57 am, bob syr <[email protected]> wrote:
    > Hi Group - it's been a long time.
    >
    > Been riding bicycle about a year, less the winter.  It's getting good;
    > I'm getting better going up upgrades and riding in high gear more
    > (more strength in legs).  I plan on putting a couple of pannier
    > baskets on the back and use the bike for grocery shopping.  The store
    > is about a mile away and the route has a few hills I can't quite make
    > yet, but I will, I hope, before the month is out.


    First, a word about 'local' shopping by bike. Perhaps you missed the
    thread;
    http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.misc/browse_thread/thread/79802ea360075852#
    (-:
    Better than panniers I would suggest.
    http://www.instructables.com/id/Local-shopping-by-bike-with-half-a-cat-basket/

    >
    > Anyway, I've been having this problem with automobile drivers.
    >
    > Sometimes drivers think it's fun to blow their horn or make other
    > noise when they pass.  And there are others who "flip you the bird"
    > for some reason I'm not generally aware of.  Well, fortunately these
    > drivers are in the minority.  Annoying as these drivers may be, they
    > are NOT the ones I'm having a problem with.
    >
    > Some . .  in fact many . .  auto drivers are overly polite, especially
    > at 4-way stop signs.  I should mention I'm an older guy, lower '60s,
    > so maybe that's why they're doubly polite, and I'm grateful.  I still
    > sometimes have a problem starting to pedal from a full stop, so I like
    > the intersection to be empty of traffic while I take off to cross on
    > the bike.  I'm happy to wait.


    Ok, I've come from the opposite side of this problem. I've always
    tended to cycle on the highest gear, but now a days, what with a new
    bike an' all (7 gear, Prestige) and perhaps getting a bit older myself
    I find that I'm more inclined be more ready to remember that I'm
    cycling and so not at work and so can allow myself to ease up a bit.
    That means, albeit a bit of a habit to break, I make a point of not
    always staying in gear 7 (or 21 on the previous bike)
    I'm even getting quite good at the highest gear habit breaking thing
    because even on short distance interchanges, I manage to start off on
    5, go to 6 and then 7 and on approaching the junction, down to 5 again
    to have an easy time taking off again. And I'm allowed. It's not work
    after all!

    So, I suggest you try that too.

    >
    > Today this guy waved me to cross in front of him while other cars were
    > stopped at the stop sign.  Well, I did everything I could to indicate
    > I wanted HIM to go first.  I took my hands of the handle bar and
    > folded my arms.  That didn't work.  I then started to fiddle with my
    > gloves hoping he would go, but he didn't.  I then DISMOUNTED and stood
    > next to the bike.  It became a kind of a grudge match.  He insisted I
    > cross in front of him so finally I let him win and walked my bike in
    > front of his car and across the intersection.
    >
    > He had kids in the car with him, so maybe he was showing the kids how
    > to be courteous to your elders and bike riders.  Or maybe, as a car
    > driver, he figured HE ought to be in charge of the roadways and direct
    > all of us guest bicyclists as to how to proceed.
    >
    > This is becoming a real problem; I suppose I should be thankful that
    > these folks and making an effort to be polite, but I am starting to
    > dread approaching intersections with all-way stop signs.  Is there
    > some way we can advertise to auto drivers that their politeness is
    > welcome, but let's not be ridiculous with it?


    Hmm. I'm torn between suggesting you pop over to Belgium for a spot of
    cycling and suggesting you never even think of it.

    Here in Belgium, cyclists are the king of the road..
    It is commonly understood that if a motorist hits a cyclist on account
    of an error said cyclist made, e.g. running a red light, then it is
    the motorist who is at fault and not the cyclist.
    It's like a permanent right of way and everything else to cyclists.
    So you will see cyclists moving along at a nice slow casual pace in
    bands of at least 3 across and sometimes I even see them at so many a
    breast as to take up the whole 1-way street.... going the wrong way
    (which they are allowed to do too)
    And never have I heard abuse directed at them, or seen motorist
    'gestures' towards cyclists other than polite ones.

    Perhaps then, given your aversion to polite motorists Belgium might be
    your hell on earth.

    Especially given a fairly recent change to the right of way issue.
    previously, if you yielded your right of way and the other motorist
    took it (like say you stopped when you weren't strictly obliged to)
    but then you changed your mind and crash into him/her, you'd be at
    fault. Now, if you've got the right of way and are crashed into,
    regardless if you had yielded it, waved them on etc... they will be at
    fault.

    That means that the politeness meter has increased it's measure of
    ensuring those with the right of way are given it.

    On the other hand, coming to belgium might be great for you.
    Been king of the road might compliment you cycling confidence and you
    might be more inclined to develop a more...urm.. safer cycling manner,
    independent of motorist whim. (urm... we drive on the right (-;)

    >
    > Bob Syr
     
  17. Yeah, I encounter people like that... flapping their hands about
    behind their tinted glass.
    At the end of this we have rules so that every knows what to do, and
    safety is improved by everyone following the rules.
    There isn't much I can say to help you deal with people that refuse to
    follow the rules. Heck, I've been known to break a few of them
    myself, like that about riding on the sidewalk, which I will routinely
    do to shorten my route and avoid traffic control devices and the
    traffic that they attract.

    But I can offer some advise on starting from a dead stop on a
    bicycle. If not changing gears while approaching the traffic control
    device is an issue you may want to consider an internally geared hub
    rather than a derailleur type transmission. The internal hub is
    probably lighter than the cog-set and derailleur, and it will allow
    you to change gears without pedaling (while stopped). These generally
    require less maintenance than the derailleur. The down side to using
    one of these is that with the chain tensioning aspect of the rear
    derailleur you probably won't be able to use a front derailleur, so
    you bike would be limited to the 7 or 8 gears provided by the hub
    rather than the 21-24 provided by the combination of front and rear
    derailleurs. But the number of gears isn't as important as the range
    of gearing provided by them. Another issue might be your bicycle
    frame, horizontal versus vertical dropouts, It might be easier to buy
    a bike that was configured with an internally geared hub that to
    convert one, unless you just liked fiddling with mechanical things.


    > Some . . in fact many . . auto drivers are overly polite, especially
    > at 4-way stop signs. I should mention I'm an older guy, lower '60s,
    > so maybe that's why they're doubly polite, and I'm grateful. I still
    > sometimes have a problem starting to pedal from a full stop, so I like
    > the intersection to be empty of traffic while I take off to cross on
    > the bike. I'm happy to wait.
    >
     
  18. On Jun 6, 11:57 pm, bob syr <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > Anyway, I've been having this problem with automobile drivers.
    >
    > ...
    > Today this guy waved me to cross in front of him while other cars were
    > stopped at the stop sign. Well, I did everything I could to indicate
    > I wanted HIM to go first. I took my hands of the handle bar and
    > folded my arms. That didn't work. I then started to fiddle with my
    > gloves hoping he would go, but he didn't. I then DISMOUNTED and stood
    > next to the bike. It became a kind of a grudge match. He insisted I
    > cross in front of him so finally I let him win and walked my bike in
    > front of his car and across the intersection....
    >
    > This is becoming a real problem; I suppose I should be thankful that
    > these folks and making an effort to be polite, but I am starting to
    > dread approaching intersections with all-way stop signs. Is there
    > some way we can advertise to auto drivers that their politeness is
    > welcome, but let's not be ridiculous with it?


    I've got several four-way stop signs on my commuting route. Here's
    how I deal with that problem. I take charge even before I get to the
    intersection.

    Specifically, if I'm arriving simultaneously with a car that's to my
    right, I begin waving them through before we even stop. Many drivers
    still seem hesitant, somehow not believing I'll stop, I guess. But
    even those will move on once they see me actually stop.

    When a car arrives simultaneously from the left (so that I have the
    ROW) I'll do the world's quickest track stand, about 0.001 second, and
    be sure I'm started off before they get a chance to.

    I had a similar "too polite" problem about a week ago, at a different
    intersection. I was waiting to ride out and turn left from a
    residential street onto an arterial. A woman driving from my right
    wanted to turn left into my street, but she stopped there and tried
    waving me out. No way! For one thing, her SUV was blocking my view
    of traffic.

    I just gave a very emphatic shake of my head, emphatically waved her
    on, and looked away to watch for traffic from the left. After a
    second or so, she shrugged and moved on, and I waved thanks.

    - Frank Krygowski
     
  19. Tom Keats

    Tom Keats Guest

    In article <[email protected]m>,
    aquachimp <[email protected]> writes:
    > On Jun 7, 5:57 am, bob syr <[email protected]> wrote:
    >> Hi Group - it's been a long time.
    >>
    >> Been riding bicycle about a year, less the winter.  It's getting good;
    >> I'm getting better going up upgrades and riding in high gear more
    >> (more strength in legs).  I plan on putting a couple of pannier
    >> baskets on the back and use the bike for grocery shopping.  The store
    >> is about a mile away and the route has a few hills I can't quite make
    >> yet, but I will, I hope, before the month is out.

    > First, a word about 'local' shopping by bike. Perhaps you missed the
    > thread;
    > http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.misc/browse_thread/thread/79802ea360075852#
    > (-:
    > Better than panniers I would suggest.
    > http://www.instructables.com/id/Local-shopping-by-bike-with-half-a-cat-basket/



    Panniers have certain intrinsic advantages, eg: they distribute
    cargo weight around a bicycle in the best manner possible. But
    they're really designed for touring, not for shopping. Things like
    potted calla lilies fare better in carriers such as your device.

    >> welcome, but let's not be ridiculous with it?

    > Hmm. I'm torn between suggesting you pop over to Belgium for a spot of
    > cycling and suggesting you never even think of it.
    > Here in Belgium, cyclists are the king of the road..


    Heck, I'd go just for the beer, and a Watteau appreciation pilgrimage.
    And of course, the waffles ;-)

    A couple of Tours de France ago, there was much discussion
    about the cobbled streets in the Belgium stages.


    cheers,
    Tom

    --
    Nothing is safe from me.
    I'm really at:
    tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca
     
  20. Bill

    Bill Guest

    Leo Lichtman wrote:
    > "After you, Alphonse." "No, after YOU" The dynamic I see here is each
    > trying to be nice, and BOTH end up losing. And if one eventually decides to
    > give in and go, there is a danger that the other do so also, at the same
    > time. The driver of the car is well aware that this could be fatal to the
    > cyclist, so is loathe to break the tie. The cyclist is well aware that this
    > could be fatal to him, so he is also loathe to do so.
    >
    > The best way to avoid this is at the very beginning. If someone waves you
    > on, the politest, safest and most efficient choice is to accept the
    > courtesy. (Unless, of course, there are other cars contributing to the
    > hazard, in which case, just point and smile.)
    >
    >

    In a lower traffic density town like mine, I will just make eye contact
    and wave them to go whilst I aim the bike at their rear bumper so they
    know I want them to go. If, by chance, there is a second car, I make eye
    contact with them too, so they can see what is going on. All the adult
    motorists I have interacted with in this manner seem to leave with a
    smile. The problem drivers tend to be teenaged males who seem to want to
    make problems for others. Fortunately that type of driver is rare,
    thanks in part to more police enforcement around here.
    I did almost get hit by some moron trying to make a right turn at nearly
    skidding speed, so I never take along a music box of any kind.
    If I can't see them, at least I can hear them. Since I only ride at
    around 12-15 MPH in populated areas I have had no trouble serious enough
    to report.
    Cheers,
    Bill Baka
     
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