Too windy to TT ??



DanDare

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Jul 15, 2009
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I thought i'd try to participate in the last few local club 10mile TT's this season, last week was the first one i'd done for 19 years, lol. I was pleased just to get a sub 30min time tbh ! (28.46), though conditions were quite good ie, dry, 6-8mph return h/wind, straight but gently hilly course etc.
Tomorrow is the same circuit but the wind is forecast to be 26mph (SW) giving me the full 26mph headwind return 5 miles ! Do people actually go out if it's this windy ? I tend to think maybe 14-16mph headwind is starting to get difficult (or maybe i'm just rubbish, lol)

With my gearing (& ability) i can't imagine keeping up a high enough outward bound av. speed to compensate for the slog home.
 
Yeah, I did a TT this spring with 40 mph gusts, it was brutal and everything I could do to stay in the aero bars. We were leaning into the steady crosswinds only to swerve hard when a vehicle passed by and blocked the crosswinds. Tough stuff but no reason to avoid the race.
DanDare said:
....With my gearing (& ability) i can't imagine keeping up a high enough outward bound av. speed to compensate for the slog home.
That's not a great strategy. The basic idea in less than steady conditions including headwind/tailwind situations is to put out the most effort during the slowest sections of the course. If you rocket the tailwind section and die into the headwind you'll go a lot slower than if you ride steady fast but not killing yourself on the tailwind leg but dig deep for all you've got for the harder return trip leg into the wind.

Good luck,
-Dave
 
The basic idea in less than steady conditions including headwind/tailwind situations is to put out the most effort during the slowest sections of the course. If you rocket the tailwind section and die into the headwind you'll go a lot slower than if you ride steady fast but not killing yourself on the tailwind leg but dig deep for all you've got for the harder return trip leg into the wind.I did a TT this spring with 40 mph gusts, it was brutal and everything I could do to stay in the aero bars. Tough stuff but no reason to avoid the race.
 
daveryanwyoming said:
Yeah, I did a TT this spring with 40 mph gusts, it was brutal and everything I could do to stay in the aero bars. We were leaning into the steady crosswinds only to swerve hard when a vehicle passed by and blocked the crosswinds. Tough stuff but no reason to avoid the race.
That's not a great strategy. The basic idea in less than steady conditions including headwind/tailwind situations is to put out the most effort during the slowest sections of the course. If you rocket the tailwind section and die into the headwind you'll go a lot slower than if you ride steady fast but not killing yourself on the tailwind leg but dig deep for all you've got for the harder return trip leg into the wind.

Good luck,
-Dave

It's for tailwind sections like this that I'd have a 55x11 top gear on the TT bike...

... and an inner ring of either 52 or 48 with 17 and 19 bottom sprockets for the slog back.
 
daveryanwyoming said:
Yeah, I did a TT this spring with 40 mph gusts, it was brutal and everything I could do to stay in the aero bars. We were leaning into the steady crosswinds only to swerve hard when a vehicle passed by and blocked the crosswinds. Tough stuff but no reason to avoid the race.
That's not a great strategy. The basic idea in less than steady conditions including headwind/tailwind situations is to put out the most effort during the slowest sections of the course. If you rocket the tailwind section and die into the headwind you'll go a lot slower than if you ride steady fast but not killing yourself on the tailwind leg but dig deep for all you've got for the harder return trip leg into the wind.

Good luck,
-Dave

Thanks Dave, for answering the question before I'd even formed it.
 
quenya said:
Thanks Dave, for answering the question before I'd even formed it.

You can tell that Dave has been working hard on his training and aero positioning as he managed to beat you to the question. :p
 
Thanks Swampy for making me spray Diet Dr. Pepper out my nose.

The Belmont TT I did this month, and plan to do next month, had a tailwind on the way out and a headwind coming back. I didn't change my plan for the wind, I basically planned to ride just below threshold out just above threshold from mile 5-9 and then ramp up until the line.
 
quenya said:
Thanks Swampy for making me spray Diet Dr. Pepper out my nose.

The Belmont TT I did this month, and plan to do next month, had a tailwind on the way out and a headwind coming back. I didn't change my plan for the wind, I basically planned to ride just below threshold out just above threshold from mile 5-9 and then ramp up until the line.

You're welcome ;) Speaking of diet drinks - did you know that ants (and other bugs) will not go near diet sodas because of the chemicals that are in them?

Just curious.... But if you ride just above threshold for 4 miles how do you manage to have anything left to ramp up? The only ramp I'd be fit for at that stage is the ramp that goes from the ambulance bay to ICU.

Speaking of which I need to buy an aero potty for my noggin.
 
swampy1970 said:
...Just curious.... But if you ride just above threshold for 4 miles how do you manage to have anything left to ramp up? The only ramp I'd be fit for at that stage is the ramp that goes from the ambulance bay to ICU.....
Kinda depends on what 'Threshold' you're talking about. If it's FTP that you can by definition sustain for an hour then going a few percent over that for roughly 10 minutes during a 24 minute time trial shouldn't send you home in the ambulance.

On courses like Quenya's described I'd try for similar pacing, I'd sure hope for an average above FTP for a little over 20 minutes but I'd definitely plan to be above FTP for the return leg into the wind. Maybe you're thinking of some other 'Threshold' or thinking about longer time trials Swampy.

-Dave
 
I don't wanna hyjack the thread or anything :D but...

Just got back from said 10TT with approx 20mph return headwind, done a 29.44 (on my drops, didn't have the aero bars fitted). This was only my 2nd 10TT & it was the last of the clubs season. It's served me as a benchmark to work at for next year.

Not sure as i'd describe tonight's effort as a pleasure mind, lol.
 
Thanks again Dave, I was using my 1hour sustainable effort measured by RPE &HR as my 'threshold' my threshold. Swampy had me worried I didn't know what I was talking about, which may still be the case.

Swampy I've seen bugs, ants especially, go crazy on piles left by my dogs... The two arguments that arise then are: bugs eat sh!t but not diet cola how bad must diet cola be OR perhaps there's no accounting for taste.

Sorry Dan... Back on topic! I think that given the conditions you stand to reap a huge benefit from aero positioning on the bike. Dave and Swamy both chimed in on a thread 'my first TT' or something like that. You should check it out.
 
daveryanwyoming said:
Kinda depends on what 'Threshold' you're talking about. If it's FTP that you can by definition sustain for an hour then going a few percent over that for roughly 10 minutes during a 24 minute time trial shouldn't send you home in the ambulance.

On courses like Quenya's described I'd try for similar pacing, I'd sure hope for an average above FTP for a little over 20 minutes but I'd definitely plan to be above FTP for the return leg into the wind. Maybe you're thinking of some other 'Threshold' or thinking about longer time trials Swampy.

-Dave

I generally think of my FTP as being 'what I could sustain for about one hour given a special effort'. A "leave me alone for 10 minutes after you've carried me off the bike" effort.

With that being said, unless I'm seriously underestimating how much harder I'm supposed to go for ~22 minutes rather than 60, my 10 mile effort was never enormously different... or at least that's the way it seemed... or I went out of the blocks too hard in the 25mile and 30mile TTs. The only major differentiator was the cr*p weather I always seemed to get for 25 mile TTs.

Maybe, this time around, actually time trialing with a power meter will shed a different light on things. I guess I may find out in a few weeks - the 'testing mule' (testing refering to the English term for time trialing and mule because it's built out of 531 tandem tubing and intended only to test the weirdo geometry) is getting built up tonight so I can get some testing done with the PM prior to the event.
 
swampy1970 said:
...Maybe, this time around, actually time trialing with a power meter will shed a different light on things. I guess I may find out in a few weeks - the 'testing mule' (testing refering to the English term for time trialing and mule because it's built out of 531 tandem tubing and intended only to test the weirdo geometry) is getting built up tonight so I can get some testing done with the PM prior to the event.
Awesome for getting back after it and pulling the testing mule out of retirement.

I suspect you'll find that you can sustain more power in a 16 km TT than a 40K TT. In both cases the effort is intense but on good days I definitely sustain more power for shorter events. My best AP for a 40K TT to date is 290 watts, my best for a 16K has been 313 watts, both on the same TT bike and both below what I get on the road bike for similar durations.

-Dave
 
daveryanwyoming said:
Yeah, I did a TT this spring with 40 mph gusts, it was brutal and everything I could do to stay in the aero bars.

Was this the Frostbite TT in Buckeye, CO? If so, that was awful.
 
hammonjj said:
Was this the Frostbite TT in Buckeye, CO? If so, that was awful.
Nope, the TT leg of the Frozen Flatlands omnium in Spokane, felt like riding a bucking bronco and was nearly tempted out of the aero bars but stuck it out....

-Dave
 
Did a really windy TT the other week(incl cooling down so the avg is a little off)
Bit weird to notice the speed "drop" to 53km/h and realize you gotta go faster :p

Hardly managed 20mph on the way back. When I finished there was already a lot less wind.

ETTT by tsteeg at Garmin Connect - Details

As long as there's no snow or thunder storms i'll ride :D
 

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