Tookie Williams & the death penalty



limerickman

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Jan 5, 2004
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I see Tookie Williams was executed during the week after spending years on death row.

My question is ; is the death penalty the correct sentence for people who commit murder?

My own view is that the State should never be allowed to enforce capital punishment for crimes, no matter how despicable the act.
 

Dondare

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Oct 13, 2005
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limerickman said:
I see Tookie Williams was executed during the week after spending years on death row.

My question is ; is the death penalty the correct sentence for people who commit murder?

My own view is that the State should never be allowed to enforce capital punishment for crimes, no matter how despicable the act.
I have no problem with criminals being executed. I don't think that they should be kept on Death Row for years, after being convicted and sentenced, awaiting execution. Should be done promptly.
 

MountainPro

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Aug 11, 2004
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The state should never have the power of life an death over anyone. If you commit murder then you will be locked up.

Watching the news report on this guys death was harrowing. It took him 20 minutes to die and several 'lethal' injections and he was exasperated as to why he wasnt dead yet. Some news reports say he was peaceful durin gthe operation...he was in utter anguish.

It is barbaric. I dont give a toss about the case, whether he was reformed or not. Its simply wrong to kill people. Thats is why he was in jail. He was punished for it because the state regocnised it was a crime. Then 'above the law' they do the same thing to him.

Its sickening.
 

limerickman

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Jan 5, 2004
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MountainPro said:
The state should never have the power of life an death over anyone. If you commit murder then you will be locked up.

Watching the news report on this guys death was harrowing. It took him 20 minutes to die and several 'lethal' injections and he was exasperated as to why he wasnt dead yet. Some news reports say he was peaceful durin gthe operation...he was in utter anguish.

It is barbaric. I dont give a toss about the case, whether he was reformed or not. Its simply wrong to kill people. Thats is why he was in jail. He was punished for it because the state regocnised it was a crime. Then 'above the law' they do the same thing to him.

Its sickening.

I've got to agree with you - no matter how heineous the crime (and there have been some pretty despicable murderers like In Huntley), I do not agree with capital punishment.

Two wrongs do not make a right.
 

Dondare

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Oct 13, 2005
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limerickman said:
I've got to agree with you - no matter how heineous the crime (and there have been some pretty despicable murderers like In Huntley), I do not agree with capital punishment.

Two wrongs do not make a right.
The death penalty is a deterent, although obviously not a strong enough one for some people. It is a 100% effective way of taking antisocial people out of society. Jail is barbaric, prisoners go through hell inside and are likely to come out worse than they went in. Some people are better off dead.
 

Dr.Hairybiker

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Aug 23, 2004
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I agree with Dondare. If someone is found guiltly of committing murder, and is sentenced to death, they shouldn't sit on death row for 25 years, they should be put to death promptly. The whole thing should be a distant memory.

I would think that most people who don't believe in the death penalty have never had someone close to them get senselessly murdered.
 

jhuskey

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Oct 6, 2003
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I have already posted to this in another forum and asked a question. If you were aware this individual was going to take innocent lives and you could stop him by killing him.
Would you kill him to save the innocent or let them die and let the courts decide the punishment?
 

Colorado Ryder

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MountainPro said:
Watching the news report on this guys death was harrowing. It took him 20 minutes to die and several 'lethal' injections and he was exasperated as to why he wasnt dead yet. Some news reports say he was peaceful durin gthe operation...he was in utter anguish.
The people he shot in the back of the head with a shotgun were also in utter anguish.
 

roadhog

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Feb 13, 2005
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I mostly want to know if Jesse Jackson will be standing outside the gates of the facility in Mississippi that will soon put a Mr. John Nixon to death (apparently the next scheduled one in the country). I'm guessing......no. Hmmm, how does this guy choose his battles then...
 

roadhog

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I am sort of on the fence myself with respect to the death penalty. I have no issue with the truly guilty people receiving this punishment. No issue at all. But the fact that we occasionally free an innocent man who was wrongly convicted gives me reason to pause. So I'm torn.

Here is a story of interest though. At the time of Tim McVeigh's execution, I was living in Germany. The evening of the execution I was at a local restaurant chatting with some local German folks that I knew from town. The execution became a topic of conversation for a minute. I had assumed that virtually all Europeans thought it was a heinous and barbaric thing that we Americans do in this way, but I was surprised at their reaction. All of them (a handful) were very enthusiastic about their support of the situation with McVeigh. They thought it was pretty cool that we would get rid of him in that way as compared to what they claim would have happened in their country (slap on the wrist and few years in jail at worst). They were actually envious.

Granted, this was a very small sample and I believe that the comments by L'man and MP are more indicative of general European sentiment. But still an interesting experience, nonetheless.

And I still think Jesse Jackson's behavior is fascinating...
 

jhuskey

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roadhog said:
I mostly want to know if Jesse Jackson will be standing outside the gates of the facility in Mississippi that will soon put a Mr. John Nixon to death (apparently the next scheduled one in the country). I'm guessing......no. Hmmm, how does this guy choose his battles then...


Mr. Jackson shows up when he thinks it is an opportunity to advance himself politically.
I am in the opinion he would sell his own mother if it were to his advantage.
 

fatboy61

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Apr 27, 2005
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I disagree with the death penalty. And I guess that if someone took the life of someone close to me, then that would be the time when I discovered whether I was truly a man of principles and lived by my beliefs, or whether it was just something that I spouted off about on internet forums.
Here's another thought though: as a young member of a violent street gang, could Williams actually have had his life expectancy increased as a result of spending his last 25 years on death row?
 

Chance3290

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Oct 1, 2004
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For those who think life without parole is a punishment for some people, you are wrong.
Most US prison today have sex, drugs, three hots and a cot, whatever else you need and whatever else you wanted on the outside.
If some rich guy murders someone, then life in prison might be a good punishment. But for someone who grows up in poverty, and lives off government assistance all his life...life in prison is just about the same as life on the street.
And NO, Dondare, prisons are not hell. If they were, then life w/o parole would be appropriate.
I won't mourn tookie. The Crips have been responsible for murder, rape, robbery, drug usage, etc. His victim count is in the thousands.
I can't say if the death penalty is a deterrent or not. But I do agree that if you're going to use it, don't wait 20+ years. Use the appeals process and when that's done. Kill them.

I wonder how many celebrites and hollywood stars were on scene when the death penalty was carried out on the four people tookie murdered.
 

wolfix

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Mar 11, 2005
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There is a very good reason I am against the death penalty....... They say about 10% of those put to death are innocent.... So I have suggestion .. Let's us allow the death penalty, but if it is proven later that the man is innocent, lets put the prosecution attorney and the judge to death for murder.......
Then let's see how fast they suggest the death penalty.
I knew of John Wayne Gacy.... he lived in my neighborhood. And you know what , he seemed like a good guy. But he wasn't as good as I thought he was...... And we know he was guilty beyond a doubt..... So when he was put to death I really questioned myself as to how I felt. I knew he was a monster and he was guilty. But in order to make him pay , I also knew that there was going to be an innocent man sooner or later put to death as a result of the death penalty ........ So was it worth seeing a misguided justice being done to one man just to punish 10 other guys??? I don't think so.
Revenge on one man is not reason to inflict death on another.
 

Colorado Ryder

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wolfix said:
There is a very good reason I am against the death penalty....... They say about 10% of those put to death are innocent.... So I have suggestion .. Let's us allow the death penalty, but if it is proven later that the man is innocent, lets put the prosecution attorney and the judge to death for murder.......
Then let's see how fast they suggest the death penalty.
I knew of John Wayne Gacy.... he lived in my neighborhood. And you know what , he seemed like a good guy. But he wasn't as good as I thought he was...... And we know he was guilty beyond a doubt..... So when he was put to death I really questioned myself as to how I felt. I knew he was a monster and he was guilty. But in order to make him pay , I also knew that there was going to be an innocent man sooner or later put to death as a result of the death penalty ........ So was it worth seeing a misguided justice being done to one man just to punish 10 other guys??? I don't think so.
Revenge on one man is not reason to inflict death on another.
Are you suggesting that the jury that found him guilty and applied the death penalty should be put to death?
 

DiabloScott

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May 15, 2003
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I think it's the appropriate punishment for heinous acts of murder. I don't care if it's a deterrant or not. Life without parole is not a deterrant but we're not talking about getting rid of that.

It should be administered as fairly and quickly as possible.

An innocent man in jail for life has had almost as much injustice as an innocent man executed.

Tookie didn't get multiple lethal injections - they just had difficulty getting the needle in his arm.

I'm a pretty liberal guy politically and socially - this is one area where I disagree with my otherwise like-minded friends.
 

Chance3290

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Oct 1, 2004
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wolfix said:
There is a very good reason I am against the death penalty....... They say about 10% of those put to death are innocent.... So I have suggestion .. Let's us allow the death penalty, but if it is proven later that the man is innocent, lets put the prosecution attorney and the judge to death for murder.......
Then let's see how fast they suggest the death penalty.
I knew of John Wayne Gacy.... he lived in my neighborhood. And you know what , he seemed like a good guy. But he wasn't as good as I thought he was...... And we know he was guilty beyond a doubt..... So when he was put to death I really questioned myself as to how I felt. I knew he was a monster and he was guilty. But in order to make him pay , I also knew that there was going to be an innocent man sooner or later put to death as a result of the death penalty ........ So was it worth seeing a misguided justice being done to one man just to punish 10 other guys??? I don't think so.
Revenge on one man is not reason to inflict death on another.
This kind of logic has been shown to hurt, rather than help opposition to the death penalty.
As far as Gacy is concerned, he should have been given life in general population. Those convicts, the ones we want to help protect and rehabilitate, their 'code' would have Gacy dead and stuffed within 24 hours of his entry. But, that would have been OK, because they don't represent the system. Its OK if 'they' kill, but 'we' can't because we should know better. But, aren't they part of us?
 

roadhog

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jhuskey said:
Mr. Jackson shows up when he thinks it is an opportunity to advance himself politically.
I am in the opinion he would sell his own mother if it were to his advantage.
Pretty much my point. I agree with you. A clown in my eyes, although to his credit he has occasionally accomplished something (POW situation in Balkans), although I believe his motives to be completely disingenuous. I'll be waiting to see him in Mississippi - and that M*A*S*H star as well, whatever his name is.
 

Dr.Hairybiker

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Aug 23, 2004
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Chance3290 said:
For those who think life without parole is a punishment for some people, you are wrong.
Most US prison today have sex, drugs, three hots and a cot, whatever else you need and whatever else you wanted on the outside.
If some rich guy murders someone, then life in prison might be a good punishment. But for someone who grows up in poverty, and lives off government assistance all his life...life in prison is just about the same as life on the street.
And NO, Dondare, prisons are not hell. If they were, then life w/o parole would be appropriate.
I won't mourn tookie. The Crips have been responsible for murder, rape, robbery, drug usage, etc. His victim count is in the thousands.
I can't say if the death penalty is a deterrent or not. But I do agree that if you're going to use it, don't wait 20+ years. Use the appeals process and when that's done. Kill them.

1. Not all prisons are created equal. Not even close. One prison might be tolerable for one certain individual, and that same person might not last 1 day in another prison, or even in a different part of the same prison. Trust me, some prisons are worse than what you can imagine hell is. And some prisons are not.
 

Carrera

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Feb 2, 2004
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Evidence suggests it doesn't prevent crime. The U.S. has higher crime than other countries that don't have the death penalty.
Also, execution is pre-mediated murder. Criminal murder may not be premeditated.


Dondare said:
The death penalty is a deterent, although obviously not a strong enough one for some people. It is a 100% effective way of taking antisocial people out of society. Jail is barbaric, prisoners go through hell inside and are likely to come out worse than they went in. Some people are better off dead.