Top 11 American Riders since 1980

[Carl Sundquist]

"Steven Bornfeld" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
>
> Connie Carpenter Beth Heiden Marianne Martin
>

Carpenter, yes.

Heiden, I'm not sure what she accomplished internationally apart from winning worlds in 1980.

Martin, I wouldn't put on the list. Yes, she won the inaugural women's TdF, but who else rode in it
that was at the top of their game at the time? For the same reason, why not list the winner of the
women's Goodwill Games, also? I'd put Twigg far ahead of Martin, and a few others, too.

 

[Davide Tosi]

Bret Wade <[email protected]> wrote:

>Davide Tosi wrote:
>
>> [email protected] (Russ Baxter) wrote:
>>
>>
>>>6. Phinney
>>
>>
>> I do not remember this guy at all. Did he ever race in Europe?
>
>I'm surpised that you don't remember a field sprinter who has won two TDF stages. After all, it was
>you who said, "it's them (sprinters)that give the real show, every time they fight shoulder to
>shoulder at 70 kmp/h". Phinney has been living in Marostica near Mt. Grappa recently.

Having read his palmares I am more and more surprised. I suppose he was fighting with the likes of
Frank Hoste and Guido Bontempi, but I do not remember him at all. Probably is that guy Alzheimer
that is coming to pick me up ...

 

[H Squared]

Bill Davidson wrote:
>
> Clovis Lark wrote:
> >>>>>6. Phinney
>
> > Then what could be crueler than being the first US rider to win a TdF stage?
>
> Wasn't that Lemond in 1985? I could swear I remember that but it was a long time ago and I did
> drink a lot in those days.

afaict, lemond won a time trial and the next year phinney won a road stage (i was 16 then and not
paying attention, so don't get upset if i'm wrong)

from http://www.angelfire.com/realm/cvccbikers/tour/top_ten.html 1985 stage 21 i Circuit Lac de
Vassiviè Lemond, Greg

h

 

[Lindsay]

On 23 Jul 2003 10:06:15 -0700, [email protected] (Russ Baxter) wrote:

>In the following order, for discussion purposes only:
>
> 1. Lemond
> 2. Armstrong
> 3. Hampsten
> 4. Hamilton
> 5. Hincapie
> 6. Phinney
> 7. Keifel
> 8. Boyer
> 9. Rodriquez
>10. Julich
>11. Vaughters

What about Jack Simes II or Jack Simes III ????

Lindsay
----------------------------
"One of the annoying things about believing in free will and individual responsibility is the
difficulty of finding somebody to blame your problems on. And when you do find somebody, it's
remarkable how often his picture turns up on your driver's license."

P.J. O'Rourke

 

[Bob Schwartz]

Nev Shea wrote:
> Is Marty Nothstein a "rider"? How about Mari Holden? Or John Tomac? Or does one have to be a male
> road racer to be considered a rider?

You know, even after the gender/event imbalance was pointed out, no one remembers Juli Furtado.

Even though Marty has had a great career, it is difficult to rank track riders highly. It is next
to impossible to make a living on the track (Marty is evidence of this) which shows up in the
depth there.

Bob Schwartz [email protected]

 

[Nev Shea]

"Carl Sundquist" <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:

>
> "Steven Bornfeld" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>>
>>
>> Connie Carpenter Beth Heiden Marianne Martin
>>
>
> Carpenter, yes.
>
> Heiden, I'm not sure what she accomplished internationally apart from winning worlds in 1980.
>
> Martin, I wouldn't put on the list. Yes, she won the inaugural women's TdF, but who else rode in
> it that was at the top of their game at the time? For the same reason, why not list the winner of
> the women's Goodwill Games, also? I'd put Twigg far ahead of Martin, and a few others, too.

ok, so on that list, does Carpenter rank above, say, Hincapie? Heiden above Rodriguez? Would winning
the first women's TdF put Martin above the jinxed Vaughters?

And should I cross-post this into the mountain bike NG to get Tomac ranked? heh

>> 1. Lemond
>> 2. Armstrong
>> 3. Hampsten
>> 4. Hamilton
>> 5. Hincapie
>> 6. Phinney
>> 7. Keifel
>> 8. Boyer
>> 9. Rodriquez
>>10. Julich
>>11. Vaughters

 

[David Ryan]

Clovis Lark wrote:
>
> As an aside, France 1 news tonight was all a gaga in delight over Hamilton's heroics. They treated
> the embrace of Hamilton and Armstrong as a Tour highlight as well...

Might save TH from The Curse.

 

[Clovis Lark]

Kurgan Gringioni <[email protected]> wrote:

> "Clovis Lark" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Kurgan Gringioni <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Then what could be crueler than being the first US rider to win a TdF stage?
>>
>>
>> > I'm just saying the majority of what you listed there won't mean
> anything to
>> > Mr. Tosi, just the Euro stuff.
>>
>> As an aside, France 1 news tonight was all a gaga in delight over Hamilton's heroics. They
>> treated the embrace of Hamilton and Armstrong as a Tour highlight as well...

> However this Tour turns out, there has not been drama like this for a long time.

Indeed! Even RBR has been dramatic!

 

[Clovis Lark]

Daniel Connelly <[email protected]> wrote:

> TC Rider wrote:
>> "Russ Baxter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>
>>>In the following order, for discussion purposes only:
>>>
>>> 1. Lemond
>>> 2. Armstrong
>>> 3. Hampsten
>>> 4. Hamilton
>>> 5. Hincapie
>>> 6. Phinney
>>> 7. Keifel
>>> 8. Boyer
>>> 9. Rodriquez
>>>10. Julich
>>>11. Vaughters
>>
>>
>> I really like Vaughters, but why not make it "since 1975" and include George Mount for being the
>> first American to ride in a Grand Tour, and also for his 6th place on the Mount Royal course in
>> the Montreal Olympics -- which acocmplished the very rare feat of getting cycling on American
>> television, admittedly for a very, very short time. Helped pave the way for all the above in
>> Europe...
>>

> Good list (1980+). Others up there, but not in the top 11 perhaps, include

> 12. Frank Andreu (consitently competitive in top-level races),
> 13. Chann McRae (excellent World championship results),
> 14. Kevin Livingston,
> 15. Jeff Pierce (TdF stage win),
> 16. Mike Englemann (anything climbing),
> 17. Chris Horner (domestic results, plus Langkawi),
> 18. Eric Heiden (US Pro champion, TdF, etc),
> 19. Alexei Grewal (Olympic RR, domestic results),
> 20. Roy Knickman,
> 21. Kent Bostick (durability),

Then you HAVE to include Tyler's inspiration: Rebecca Twigg.

 

[Warren]

In article <[email protected]>, Bret Wade
<[email protected]> wrote:

> Davide Tosi wrote:
>
> > [email protected] (Russ Baxter) wrote:
> >
> >
> >>6. Phinney
> >
> >
> > I do not remember this guy at all. Did he ever race in Europe?
>
> I'm surpised that you don't remember a field sprinter who has won two TDF stages. After all, it
> was you who said, "it's them (sprinters)that give the real show, every time they fight shoulder to
> shoulder at 70 kmp/h". Phinney has been living in Marostica near Mt. Grappa recently.

Do you know how he's doing (physically) these days?

-WG

 

[Warren]

In article <[email protected]>, Carl Sundquist <[email protected]> wrote:

> "Steven Bornfeld" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> >
> >
> > Connie Carpenter Beth Heiden Marianne Martin
> >
>
> Carpenter, yes.
>
> Heiden, I'm not sure what she accomplished internationally apart from winning worlds in 1980.
>
> Martin, I wouldn't put on the list. Yes, she won the inaugural women's TdF, but who else rode in
> it that was at the top of their game at the time?

Indeed. I did a training criterium that she was in about two weeks after her big win and she was
nowhere near the rider that we see among the best American women today.

Carpenter and Heiden didn't do much internationally that I remember apart from Beth's one big win.
FWIW, Beth is happily living in NorCal now and her brother's daughter looks like she got some good
genetics (!).

-WG

 

[Mark & Steven B]

Lindsay wrote:

> On 23 Jul 2003 10:06:15 -0700, [email protected] (Russ Baxter) wrote:
>
> >In the following order, for discussion purposes only:
> >
> > 1. Lemond
> > 2. Armstrong
> > 3. Hampsten
> > 4. Hamilton
> > 5. Hincapie
> > 6. Phinney
> > 7. Keifel
> > 8. Boyer
> > 9. Rodriquez
> >10. Julich
> >11. Vaughters
>
> What about Jack Simes II or Jack Simes III ????
>
> Lindsay

I don't know if Jack III was still competing in 1980--I'm sure II wasn't. We could, of course
vote for some of our great track women--besides Twigg, Young, Novarra, Pareskevin.

Steve

>
> ----------------------------
> "One of the annoying things about believing in free will and individual responsibility is the
> difficulty of finding somebody to blame your problems on. And when you do find somebody, it's
> remarkable how often his picture turns up on your driver's license."
>
> P.J. O'Rourke

--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS Brooklyn, NY 718-258-5001 http://www.dentaltwins.com

 

[Mark & Steven B]

Carl Sundquist wrote:

> "Steven Bornfeld" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> >
> >
> > Connie Carpenter Beth Heiden Marianne Martin
> >
>
> Carpenter, yes.
>
> Heiden, I'm not sure what she accomplished internationally apart from winning worlds in 1980.
>
> Martin, I wouldn't put on the list. Yes, she won the inaugural women's TdF, but who else rode in
> it that was at the top of their game at the time? For the same reason, why not list the winner of
> the women's Goodwill Games, also? I'd put Twigg far ahead of Martin, and a few others, too.

I'd have to agree. I'd barely heard of Martin, and I'm sure Carpenter and Longo weren't there.
Was Berglund ever naturalized? I'd vote for her! ;-)

Steve

--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS Brooklyn, NY 718-258-5001 http://www.dentaltwins.com

 

[Mark & Steven B]

warren wrote:

(snip)

>
> Carpenter and Heiden didn't do much internationally that I remember apart from Beth's one big win.
> FWIW, Beth is happily living in NorCal now and her brother's daughter looks like she got some good
> genetics (!).
>
> -WG

Wat she duin' with those genetics?

Steve

--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS Brooklyn, NY 718-258-5001 http://www.dentaltwins.com

 

[Kurgan Gringion]

"Clovis Lark" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Daniel Connelly <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Good list (1980+). Others up there, but not in the top 11 perhaps,
include
>
> > 12. Frank Andreu (consitently competitive in top-level races),
> > 13. Chann McRae (excellent World championship results),
> > 14. Kevin Livingston,
> > 15. Jeff Pierce (TdF stage win),
> > 16. Mike Englemann (anything climbing),
> > 17. Chris Horner (domestic results, plus Langkawi),
> > 18. Eric Heiden (US Pro champion, TdF, etc),
> > 19. Alexei Grewal (Olympic RR, domestic results),
> > 20. Roy Knickman,
> > 21. Kent Bostick (durability),
>
>
> Then you HAVE to include Tyler's inspiration: Rebecca Twigg.

?

Please explain.

 

[Kurgan Gringion]

"warren" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:240720030820346590%[email protected]...

FWIW, Beth is happily living in NorCal
> now and her brother's daughter looks like she got some good genetics (!).

You shouldn't lust after minors - that can only lead to trouble. Look at what happened to Boyer.

 

[Lindsay]

On Thu, 24 Jul 2003 11:44:37 -0400, Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS <[email protected]> wrote:

> I don't know if Jack III was still competing in 1980--I'm sure II wasn't.

Oops, forgot about the 80's thing. I don't believe Jackie was racing in the 80's.

Lindsay
----------------------------
"One of the annoying things about believing in free will and individual responsibility is the
difficulty of finding somebody to blame your problems on. And when you do find somebody, it's
remarkable how often his picture turns up on your driver's license."

P.J. O'Rourke

 

[Warren]

In article <[email protected]>, Kurgan Gringioni
<[email protected]> wrote:

> "warren" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:240720030820346590%[email protected]...
>
>
>
> FWIW, Beth is happily living in NorCal
> > now and her brother's daughter looks like she got some good genetics (!).
>
>
>
>
> You shouldn't lust after minors - that can only lead to trouble. Look at what happened to Boyer.

Okay. I was referring to her quickness. I think she's 3 years old.

-WG

 

[Clovis Lark]

Kurgan Gringioni <[email protected]> wrote:

> "Clovis Lark" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Daniel Connelly <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> > Good list (1980+). Others up there, but not in the top 11 perhaps,
> include
>>
>> > 12. Frank Andreu (consitently competitive in top-level races),
>> > 13. Chann McRae (excellent World championship results),
>> > 14. Kevin Livingston,
>> > 15. Jeff Pierce (TdF stage win),
>> > 16. Mike Englemann (anything climbing),
>> > 17. Chris Horner (domestic results, plus Langkawi),
>> > 18. Eric Heiden (US Pro champion, TdF, etc),
>> > 19. Alexei Grewal (Olympic RR, domestic results),
>> > 20. Roy Knickman,
>> > 21. Kent Bostick (durability),
>>
>>
>> Then you HAVE to include Tyler's inspiration: Rebecca Twigg.

> ?

> Please explain.

Twigg broke her collarbone in a training crash and then went on to compete in the Worlds in Bogata
in 96. She won gold 11 days after the accident, setting a WR in the 3km pursuit with a plate
inserted to stabilize the fracture.

One of her sponsors, alluding to the inability of the US men to come up with anything, ran an add
saying "Next year, maybe we should break the collarbones of everyone on the team."

 

[Daniel Connelly]

Clovis Lark wrote:
>
>
> Twigg broke her collarbone in a training crash and then went on to compete in the Worlds in Bogata
> in 96. She won gold 11 days after the accident, setting a WR in the 3km pursuit with a plate
> inserted to stabilize the fracture.
>
> One of her sponsors, alluding to the inability of the US men to come up with anything, ran an add
> saying "Next year, maybe we should break the collarbones of everyone on the team."

I wasn't controlling for gender (as I wason't controlling for any genetically correlated factors).
So unless Twigg could go "mano a mano" against the riders in my list, she doesn't belong there.