Torque

[artmichalek]

Well why would I use a such a thing. I am way smarter than those engineer types that design this stuff. Sure they went to college but hey I'm special so I know more than them and didn't waste my time going to school like those suckers. Oh I forgot to mention that I am incedibly rich and money doesn't matter to me. Unlike you loosers if I ruin a $400 dollar crankset or a fancy bottom bracket what do I care. Besides the laws of physics don't apply to me anyway so there is no need for me to be concerned about them. Besides it not like the people who write up those directions really think about it when they're doing it. They probably just pick the numbers out of a hat or throw darts at a list or something thats what I would do. Even if the didn't do that its not like they have access to more information than me or consult with the leaders in the fields, or people that use this stuff day in and day out. No sir that why I don't bother with such trivial matters. I really only need two tools to do the work I do a big hammer and a really big hammer.

I haven't broken any parts by not using a torque wrench, and I have two degrees and counting in mechanical engineering. What's your point?

 

[RC2]

I've never used a torque wrench on a bike either. I've tightened lots of things w/o ever over- or under-torquing excessively: nothing's been broken or fallen off yet. Count another engineer who doesn't feel the need to make bolt-tightening rocket science.

 

[biker7]

You of all people should know better Art. My guess is you may be a degreed engineer like myself but you do not do engineering for a living. I am a product development engineer in the auto industry and establishing torque specs is fundamental to design...not only function but reliability over time. Do you think with your technical training you may have more insight into torques of different fasteners and materials than the average tech? I do. You may think you are above needing to use a torque wrench and you maybe right in certain situations. But likely if I install a crankset to mfr. torque specs and you do the same without a torque wrench...I like my chances better...even with your gift of feel ...for retention (undertorqued/overtorqued) , performance (undertorqued- creaking/deflection) and longevity (overtorqued - challenging the threshold of stripped spindle and hex nut threads). Since the torque spec's are available and predicated on design...from a guy who designs things for a living, I choose to use them if torque values are known. Product engineers develop a D.F.M.E.A. concurrent with creating each design which quanitifies product liability risk assessment. Fundamental to mechanical function and liability are fastener torques and for good reason...they are the underpinning of mechanical fastening. Try doing a 3-stage head bolt setting on a BMW head gasket repair with an aluminum block and iron head with different coeficients of thermal expansion without a torque wrench and see what your chances are for success. I know because I have helped other swag artists rebuild theirs after messing it up.
Where is the line Art?
George

 

[artmichalek]

You may think you are above needing to use a torque wrench and you maybe right in certain situations.

Given my current level of fitness, I don't expect my crankset is undergoing quite as much thermal expansion as the head on your BMW I know the specs exist for a reason, but most bike parts aren't going to disintegrate if they're tightened +/- a few Nm.

 

[biker7]

Then to your point you better not wrench on any racer's bikes where the stress/failure threshold is being challenged.

George

 

[boudreaux]

You of all people should know better Art. My guess is you may be a degreed engineer like myself but you do not do engineering for a living.

Well actually, maybe unlike most engineers, he has been able to get "out of the box".

 

[boudreaux]

Then to your point you better not wrench on any racer's bikes where the stress/failure threshold is being challenged.

George

Christ Georgie....Take a pill!.

 

[biker7]

Isn't that the problem Bore-troll?...you have taken too many pills...lol.
You don't even know what a box a.k.a. paradigm is let alone think outside of one. Engineers create the boxes you stooge...you only wonder about them and not very well I might add.
Now wipe down my bike my pet after a joyful 25 mile ride with blue sky backdrop. No not with your greasy face towel...with microfiber...and wash your hands first. Then be gone...back to the lighthouse...you cloven hoofed troll.

George

 

[boudreaux]

Engineers create the boxes .......

Actually, the majority of them are born in the box they spend their lives in. The ones that werent,constitute the good ones.Guess that leaves you out.

 

[gubaguba]

My point is this I do not assume I know whats best others can do what they think is best. If a authority greater than myself says something I need to consider that it is correct. Since there seems to be a desire to define words in this thread I suggest "Humility". As in the lack of false pride. The general lack of humility by a certain poster prevent them from seeing any other point of view but there own. I know from my own experience of about 30 years of working on bikes that I cannot afford to have such an attitude today. It prevents me from the opportunity of learning better ways of doing things. It takes time to get time doing something along the way you got to make the mistakes and learn the lessons. If not you just make again, but you already knew that.

 

[boudreaux]

It takes time to get time doing something along the way you got to make the mistakes and learn the lessons. If not you just make again, but you already knew that.

Some never make mistakes.

 

[artmichalek]

My point is this I do not assume I know whats best others can do what they think is best. If a authority greater than myself says something I need to consider that it is correct. Since there seems to be a desire to define words in this thread I suggest "Humility". As in the lack of false pride. The general lack of humility by a certain poster prevent them from seeing any other point of view but there own. I know from my own experience of about 30 years of working on bikes that I cannot afford to have such an attitude today. It prevents me from the opportunity of learning better ways of doing things. It takes time to get time doing something along the way you got to make the mistakes and learn the lessons. If not you just make again, but you already knew that.

While I generally don't take linguistic suggestions from people who don't seem able to speak the language in the first place, I'll bite this time. I never said that there's anything wrong with using a torque wrench. In fact with some ultra light components that get bent up coming out of the box it's imperative. Most parts, however, are designed such that they aren't critically sensetive to small variations from the optimum fastening torque.
For the record George, the only parts I've had break in any kind of race conditions were ones that I've machined in a hotel parking lot. All that experience proved was that the best finite element analysis packages on the market have some portability issues and that some hotel managers have no sense of humor.

 

[skully]

Wow.

Didn't mean to start a flame war here.....

I haven't used a torque wrench up until now either. I have always wanted to though, and just got one off of E-bay for cheap, so now I'll check out Park's torque specs and go crazy with it......

Thanks for all the input!

 

[dhk]

Wow.

Didn't mean to start a flame war here.....

I haven't used a torque wrench up until now either. I have always wanted to though, and just got one off of E-bay for cheap, so now I'll check out Park's torque specs and go crazy with it......

Thanks for all the input!

Enjoy the new torque wrench. You can't go wrong with looking up the specs and using it; a great way to learn. If you work on bikes often, believe you'll find you use it less and less, as you develop a calibrated feel for torque and confidence that you're not going to break anything.

Only time I've used the torque wrench on my bike was to tighten the crankarm bolts. Wanted to make sure I got the crankarm fully seated on the splines without stripping the aluminum bolts. If I did this often, like boudreaux does, I'd likely go by feel as well.

 

[boudreaux]

Only time I've used the torque wrench on my bike was to tighten the crankarm bolts. Wanted to make sure I got the crankarm fully seated on the splines without stripping the aluminum bolts. If I did this often, like boudreaux does, I'd likely go by feel as well.

The real drill is that you shouldn't use aluminum bolts for the install. Do it with the real deal steel,remove and then stick in the weight weenie stuff.

 

[dhk]

The real drill is that you shouldn't use aluminum bolts for the install. Do it with the real deal steel,remove and then stick in the weight weenie stuff.

Yep, good point. The steel bolts were used for the initial install at the frame builders shop, but then he replaced with the al bolts.

But no steel bolts, thanks. With the Ti spindle, AL bolts, and CF crankarms, my bike "practically flies up hills"....